PvP Disc Spec Discussion - Page 5

Chirality · 01/12/09, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by ildon

I've been changing up my spec a bit every time I spec back to disc, and last night I tried dropping some points out of Mental Agility into Imp. PW:S, and at first I really noticed the difference in mana, but the games vs. war/sham where the warrior was rage starved the entire round each round made me feel a little bit better about it.

Aren't Improved PW:S and Borrowed Time still bugged to give the incorrect boost to PW:S?

That is to say, doesn't Improved PW:S (right now) only improve the base absorb amount of PW:S?

And doesn't Borrowed Time right now only improve the coefficient by 40% multiplicatively instead of improving it additively?

Or were these fixed?

woobsauce · 01/12/09, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by ildon

Running rogue/priest in 2's, I really feel like penance has saved a lot more games for us than SoR glyph would have. Not just in terms of healing my rogue, but also in terms of offensive pressure. Even against good shaman, I can usually get 2 penance volleys off when healing before I get hit with ES, which is still a lot of healing.

I've been changing up my spec a bit every time I spec back to disc, and last night I tried dropping some points out of Mental Agility into Imp. PW:S, and at first I really noticed the difference in mana, but the games vs. war/sham where the warrior was rage starved the entire round each round made me feel a little bit better about it.

The huge downfall of penance is when I get focus fired due to us being unable to bring enough offensive pressure/control. In these cases it does nothing. Conceptually, I just don't like SoR/SoR glyph, because it's so theoretically easy to counter just by running away/resetting (although in practice I realize this doesn't happen as much, especially sub 2000 bracket). The worst is mirror matches. I just get owned by their rogue way faster than the other priest gets owned by mine. But we haven't seen any mirror matches since he upgraded out of blue daggers so maybe that will change.

Rogues are stupidly weapon dependent, my rogue went from blue daggers to -> 25 man ones, and ambushes went from critting for 4k to 7k.

If any of you weren't aware imp pw:s is bugged. It only increases the base amount of the shield absorbed, which is 3 talent points to increase the amount absorbed by like 150. Not worth taking it until 3.0.8.

Also, Ildon, why wouldn't you take martyrdom? Decreases lockout time by 20%, ie: counterspell, kick, pummel, etc. On top of a potential 100% pushback resistance.

Gourd · 01/12/09, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by woobsauce

It seems to be slightly different in our battlegroup. Double dps + healer seems to be a lot more prevalent in Stormstrike. Literally all of the top20 in our battlegroup run double dps + healer. So targeting opposing dps is far from uncommon. As such specs generally necessitate diversity, rather than pure survivability.

Also, my point on viper wasn't really to point it out as a necessity, but rather as just a perk.

Also, Ysaya, have you even read this thread yet?

Most of your spec is fine, but I really think Enlightenment sucks horribly. 5% stam/spirit/haste at the cost of .5s off of some pretty awesome spells just seems like a hardly worthwhile trade off. You're spending 5 talent points for 59 stam, 18.5 spirit, and 5% haste. That just seems like a drop in the bucket to me when compared to the utility of Divine fury. Not to mention searing light. Even without searing light, holy fire does more damage than MB, so I don't see why you'd MB over it.

Double dps + healer (as well as 4dps 5s) are by far the most common teams I run into as well.

And I don't necessarily think that Enlightenment is worthless, although I agree that it's absolutely not worth giving up Divine Fury for. I respec very frequently (based upon bracket, or if I'm raiding), but often find myself taking it over some of the mana efficiency talents (such as mental agility) for 3s.

As far as Martyrdom goes, I feel as if it's mechanics are very stale. As it stands now, when I have melee on me to proc it, I'm generally not in any position to try and cast unless their interrupt is already on cooldown. Even in BC, my only main reason for taking it was mana burn.

ildon · 01/12/09, 11:33 PM

Originally Posted by woobsauce

Rogues are stupidly weapon dependent, my rogue went from blue daggers to -> 25 man ones, and ambushes went from critting for 4k to 7k.

If any of you weren't aware imp pw:s is bugged. It only increases the base amount of the shield absorbed, which is 3 talent points to increase the amount absorbed by like 150. Not worth taking it until 3.0.8.

Also, Ildon, why wouldn't you take martyrdom? Decreases lockout time by 20%, ie: counterspell, kick, pummel, etc. On top of a potential 100% pushback resistance.

I had read the initial testing of PW:S was flawed, using the glyph's heal amount instead of actual amount absorbed. I haven't tested it myself, though.

I do have martyrdom.

Mearis · 01/13/09, 2:24 AM

Originally Posted by Gourd

As far as Martyrdom goes, I feel as if it's mechanics are very stale. As it stands now, when I have melee on me to proc it, I'm generally not in any position to try and cast unless their interrupt is already on cooldown. Even in BC, my only main reason for taking it was mana burn.

I think martyrdom is a must have for fast mass-dispell - if you can get it off and it doesn't resist, you can usually win a game right there.

zellius · 01/13/09, 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mearis

I think martyrdom is a must have for fast mass-dispell - if you can get it off and it doesn't resist, you can usually win a game right there.

The fast dispell talent is Focused Power: Focused Power - Spell - World of Warcraft. This is Martyrdom: Martyrdom - Spell - World of Warcraft.

What do you guys think of this build? Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I run ret/priest and we're currently in the low 1600's (just started arenas). While using this build minus Divine Aegis plus Rapture, I haven't gotten close to OOM even once yet. When we lose, its almost always when a rogue or a 2-dps team bursts me down. So, I decided to skip Rapture in favor of Divine Aegis and Renewed Hope. I'm hoping that will keep me alive for just a little bit longer.

What do you think?

Mearis · 01/13/09, 5:29 PM

Originally Posted by zellius

The fast dispell talent is Focused Power: Focused Power - Spell - World of Warcraft. This is Martyrdom: Martyrdom - Spell - World of Warcraft.

Yes, but mass dispell has no push back protection. If you are getting zerged by a DK/pet/ret paladin and you need the bubble off, you cannot risk getting a pushback that will lead to your Md getting kicked.

Esdras · 01/15/09, 4:29 PM

I agree, Martyrdom has lost a lot of its value in Season 5 due to the changing mechanics of Arena game play. CC battles are far less common, and well timed damage bursts seem the most common game winners in the higher rankings.

As far as kicking a Mass Dispell, I've never heard of stacking talent points to protect against that. With a .5 second cast time (before haste), and most players averaging over 100ms latencies in game, it's almost impossible for an opponent to see it coming, let alone react in time to kick it. I think Martyrdom's merit is 20% Interrupt effect duration reduction, which can make the difference in the lower bracket 2v2 and 3v3 Arenas.

Zellius, although your spec hits some of the most potent healing talents in the Discipline tree, they're hard to rely on because of their dependence on critical heals. Having dropped Rapture I'd consider Mental Agility and Enlightenment, both of which will help your mana and longevity in Arenas. If you do go this route, I'd suggest dropping Holy Specialization in favor of Improved Renew and two additional points in the Discipline tree, all in favor of keeping you alive longer during match ups.

Zaq · 01/15/09, 6:23 PM

What he means is that if you're being attacked there's a high chance that MD will get pushed-back, making it fully interruptible by any non-keyboard turner. Especially in light of the fact that they should know it's coming.

woobsauce · 01/17/09, 1:41 AM

Originally Posted by Esdras

I agree, Martyrdom has lost a lot of its value in Season 5 due to the changing mechanics of Arena game play. CC battles are far less common, and well timed damage bursts seem the most common game winners in the higher rankings.

As far as kicking a Mass Dispell, I've never heard of stacking talent points to protect against that. With a .5 second cast time (before haste), and most players averaging over 100ms latencies in game, it's almost impossible for an opponent to see it coming, let alone react in time to kick it. I think Martyrdom's merit is 20% Interrupt effect duration reduction, which can make the difference in the lower bracket 2v2 and 3v3 Arenas.

Focused power is worth taking for the damage and healing buff alone. You don't get the talent points for just mass dispels, its just a nice perk, although you could argue for that portion alone if you've ever played pmr. The faster you get shields/bubbles off, the better.

Also, your comments concerning MD confuse me. I don't see how anyone couldn't see it coming. The use is so situational, your comments lead me to believe you have very little arena experience. Oh hey, a Paladin bubbled -> I'm going to A. mass dispel or B. press S in confusion. I dont disagree that its difficult to interrupt, for the same reasons you dont see to many interrupted feldoms. But it is still a valid point that many good players will see it coming, and take steps to prevent the md from getting off.

Enlightenment is just such a drop in the bucket it just hardly merits 5 talent points. Points in martyrdom is just such a better alternative. Think about the point placement. 2 more % stam/haste/spirit is pretty much nothing. Its that vs the utility of potential 100% pushback protection, and lockout protection -> which is bound to happen in all brackets. I mean, take the figures I posted earlier in the thread, and reduce them by 60%. That tiny bit of stam/spirit is what you're paying 2 talent points for (with decent gear).

Havoc12 · 01/17/09, 9:32 PM

Originally Posted by Mearis

What deep disc tools exactly help you tank rogues? Blessed Resiilence is clearly better than anything past 35+ in disc.

borrowed time + pain suppression are much better than blRes

Gourd · 01/18/09, 3:57 AM

Originally Posted by Havoc12

borrowed time + pain suppression are much better than blRes

Your response implies that you are taking this statement out of context. Mearis stated that Blessed Resilience is superior to the talents available deeper into disc when it considering which talents help us survive against rogues the best. While I do not choose to spec into Blessed Resilience for any bracket, I do agree with him on this.

Iwachiten · 01/18/09, 2:30 PM

A coder by the name of para11ax over at WoWhead has developed a version of recount that includes shield absorbs.

Documentation:
Discipline Priest Recount - Priest - Wowhead Forums

Addon:
RecountDisc.zip - Curse

This should help a bit too see whats PW:S adds.

Sokaris84 · 01/19/09, 11:13 AM

Before I start, tonight was my first bout of serious arena since BC. I had read alot about the x/x/21 build for 2v2 arena with a mage back in the day, but never had a suitable partner to try it with in BC. One of my friends now has a reasonably geared mage so tonight I decided to give it ago. I must say I was quite impressed, we came up against a mirror team, expect the priest was Penance spec. We overcame them with little trouble. Infact, the only real hassles we had came from druid/warrior or druid/rogue combos.

Is anywhere out there still a fan of silence for 2v2s?

(maybe even 3s?) Do people still think this spec is viable? If so, any pointers or strategies you would like to share? My spec is this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - any changes I should be making to that? Cheers guys

Chirality · 01/19/09, 1:51 PM

Originally Posted by Sokaris84

Before I start, tonight was my first bout of serious arena since BC. I had read alot about the x/x/21 build for 2v2 arena with a mage back in the day, but never had a suitable partner to try it with in BC. One of my friends now has a reasonably geared mage so tonight I decided to give it ago. I must say I was quite impressed, we came up against a mirror team, expect the priest was Penance spec. We overcame them with little trouble. Infact, the only real hassles we had came from druid/warrior or druid/rogue combos.

Is anywhere out there still a fan of silence for 2v2s?

(maybe even 3s?) Do people still think this spec is viable? If so, any pointers or strategies you would like to share? My spec is this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft - any changes I should be making to that? Cheers guys

I've mentally toyed with the idea but...Not having Desperate Prayer would hurt too bad, to me. I loved Disc/Silence in 2s back in s3/s4, though. I played that spec almost exclusively (with a Mage), but got stuck at about 2k rating. Rogue/Druid, Warlock/Healer, and Hunter/Druid = 100% countercomp if they play well. Not enough Warrior/Healer teams on my battlegroup to make up for having 50% of our fights be almost instant loss.

I would consider Vieled Shadows over Shadow Weaving, though, for that spec. Helps make up for the loss of rapture. Same with Improved Renew and Holy Concentration (I prefer Martyrdom for Mass Dispel reasons--yes it does make a difference). Borrowed Time is probably a better choice.

Overall--I just doubt it's viable right now: too many melee teams that will wreck you. Check back at 1k+ resilience?

In 3v3, Silence specs were classically only viable in a double healer setup (I did Priest/Dreamstate/Hunter). I doubt drain teams will have much success at the moment.

On a related note: Anyone else given up on Glyph of Renew and Improved Renew? I just find renew to be such a small component of my healing (hi Scourge Strike) that I'm beginning to doubt it's worth glyphing and talenting.