Do you have any indication that Shadow Protection actually influences this? As for the paladin aura, it's understandable to some extent: as soon as you MC the understudy, it becomes friendly and at the same time member of the raid. As a result, the understudy seems to receive the paladin aura. But why should the understudy receive the effects of a straight buff like Shadow Protection that is applied even before the encounter started?

Shadow Protection only has an effect if applied after an Understudy is MCed. Very unlikely that a player would do this and the Aura is the more likely source of issues on this fight (along with people taking the Understudies far out of range and losing their MC).

I've had issues with MC breaking if I start moving the Understudy immediatly after applying the MC. Now I just wait half a second, and never had any problems what so ever. I use hitgear on it since I usually have it with me, and I can't remember a single time MC has broken. So it's most likely range.

Mark of the Wild / Shadow Protection / Shadow Aura / Improve Frost Presence most likely would affect it. It definitely did back at 60 and was the source of a lot of issues until we figured that one out. Of course, you could also use a Warlock to put CoS up to negate most of that then.

hey there, i've got a question coming up, thinking about trying sarth +3 drakes in a while.

ive heard of some ppl using a warlocks void tanking sarth... i it possible to increase the voids life far enought, if wl himself got stamina equips on? atleast ppl told me this would be more easy to manage, than having a good timed guardian spirit up on warrior or dk tanks who otherwise could not survive the deadly breath of sarth, when 3rd drake is coming up..

could someone give me advice?

greets, xere

I would look here for something specific on sarth 3d:

Sartharion and Company (3 Drakes) - Discussion

and read this as well, your post will likely lead to an infraction.

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/a34-foru...dated_1_28_09/

Since about 2 ids, I am in the same position as you. We have not downed Sarth 3D yet, however 2D we did. From my experience, you will find that as soon as both acolytes are up, your job becomes no less demanding than the add/drake tank/raid healer position.

As a holy priest, due to much longer GH cast times, you have even less leeway than a paladin when healing the Sarth tank. You need to be able to cut it very close when dealing with fissures and lava.

If you feel you must/should stay in the position of Sarth tank healer, I suggest you do this as disc since as you say you are more comfortable as disc and the feasibiliy of a holy priest as Sarth 3D tank healer is gone with patch 3.1 - which is going to hit any week now. So getting comfortable with holy is no use if you need to get rid of it within 2 weeks anyway.

@ healium thank you, i was really confused about it before

tt: i wondered what stat will be the priority to get for holys, refering to the changes ulduar will bring... at the moment i'm trying to get as much reggen as possible..
but i also heard blizz is going to change the outfight reggen system overall, atleast nerv spirit reggen.. is it more useful to get haste rating for ulduar?

(sorry for my bad language:>)

greets, xerinia

First let me say I apologize if this has already been answered in this thread. However, I did a thread search for the word "sarth" and browsed through the posts, yet did not see anything specifically pertaining to my question.

My guild does 25 man 3D Sarth usually with 6-7 healers. We have downed him twice, but were having some technical issues and had to just call it a few nights ago.

I am a holy priest, and I was assigned to raid healing. We have no resto shamans, but a resto druid was assigned to help me out while main healing the add tank.

I just could not keep the dps up at all during twilight torment for some reason. I kept pom and coh on cd, used poh on my group when I saw that all of us had taken damage, and when everything was on cd, I would flash heal the dps as quickly as possible, and then refresh my coh and pom when they came up.

However, I was not able to keep the raid up. I'm not exactly sure how I should approach it. Any tips would be much appreciated.

As a side note, I feel like my mana is not as good as it should be. Most people with full raid buffs and replenshment have no difficulties whatsoever with mana, but I do tend to get a little low at times. I have a decent amount of crit; I try to get an sol proc when I have a clearcasting, then pop my spirit-world glass, use my free flash heal and then my clearcasting, then use inner focus on a poh so that I can get another free flash heal. I also try to use my shadowiend after a lava wall so that it doesn't accidentally get hit by that, but it still dies a lot. I typically also pot every fight, and occasionally symbol of hope, but I don't always have tme to be standing there channeling that.

I currently have 941 int 927 spirit and 2120 healing without inner fire.

I have 23.15% holy crit chance, and 823 not casting regen, with 268 while casting regen.

Any ideas why I may be having some mana issues? I typically use flask of pure mojo and spiced wyrm burger (40 crit/40 stam food).

The fiend will always die if you cast it while TT is active, even if you shield it. Are you sure you have enough replenishment providers in your raid (and that they're surviving)? We did a raid once with just one and it sucked something fierce. There's also simply a limit on the hps you can provide to the wider raid durring the TT phases, and your dps can either slow down, or send more people into the portals as ways to negate that some. Also, be careful with clumping on Sarth as the lava strikes hitting several people can be bad news in a hurry. If I was forced to nitpick, I might suggest that your In5sr regen seems a little low, but I logged out in my pvp gear and can't check mine. Raid healing on sarth is one of the places where you can really unload mana, and it's not that suprising that you'd be noticing it, is it really restricting your output?

I think we had 2 ret paladins giving replenishment. No spriests, and no hunters that were spec'd into it, though. I don't recall whether or not they were living, which probably means that it varied per attempt and they weren't dying any more or less than other dpsers.

About taking the portal -- what does that actually do? We are told to never take the portals, and so I never paid much attention to them or what it might do to help us if we did. I don't even know which drake's portals they are.

I suppose I will just have to use my shadowfiend early, then, if it will just die when I need it the most during twilight torment, and save pot and my spirit trinket + inner focus for during that phase.

The 2 times we did down him, we had 1 extra raid healer, a paladin that was able to main heal the tank that our resto druid was on this time, so it was both me and the resto druid full time on the raid, which made a huge difference. I still went oom, but we made it through twilight torment and after that the druid was able to innervate me back to full. Another time we had a feral druid dpsing (because he was our tank, but then we decided to use a lock's VW) and he was able to innervate me.

I think maybe I just don't have enough spirit, but we'll see how it goes tonight.

Thanks for the input!

Your DPSers also need to be aware of TT and be prepared to slow down DPS if they aren't getting topped off. When I heal that phase, I do pretty much what you are describing (ProM/CoH/FH spam). If your DPSers can't be bothered to slow down and let you pick them up before gibbing themselves, they need to be smacked upside the head.

How many total healers are you bringing though? If you are the only raid healer and everyone else is tank healing, I could see where the problem comes in.

He has 6-7 healers. Are your only "raid" healers a holy priest (yourself) and a resto druid? No resto shammies at all? That sounds like a whole lot of paladin going on, then. (Too much, probably)
Another raid healer would help things out.

And yeah - if dps'ers are dying to TT, they need to just cool it and let the healers catch up.

Eh? I'll have to disagree. The HL glyph helps a considerable amount with raid healing -- just make sure your Paladins are healing the off-tanks. Also, if you aren't using your Divine Hymn to incapacitate the whelps, it's a good time to toss it up when TT is active.

As nice as PoM is I don't think it does anything during TT. I bounce mine off a tank and then it just sits on a dps until it gets hit by incidental raining fire. If you're looking for healing the dps, then save yourself the global cooldown and only use PoM when it really has expired.

And tell your dps to slow the hell down. It's irritating to watch a dps drop to 10% and just hammering away until they're dead. If they do that then they're not doing their job well. Having a lightwell near where your ranged dps are can be quite a life-saver too. I can't comment on the mana, because I don't recall any specific issues, but if I use my fiend it's on a drake or portal add.

That said, I really doubt that one raid healer can deal with TT alone, unless the dps slows down majorly. I find it tricky enough with two raid-healers, but I suppose I could improve the way I do that.

That's correct: at some point between Wrath release and 3.0.8, they changed PoM to not proc off self-damaging things like Twilight Torment. I really noticed it a couple of weeks ago when I was healing the raid on Sarth+3.10, and we had some bad dps composition issues. The longer the fight took, the more I realized I wasn't healing for as much as I should. Checked the logs, and PoM was sitting on dps for 10 seconds as they died.

I've also dipped into Sarth a few times, but just like you I have gotten unlucky, so I don't do that anymore. All it needs is a bit of lag, fudging the real position of Sarth and you're gambling your life. If you absolutely have to though, then just play safe and stay closer to the back. The tailswipe is a lot less lethal than the breath, to you at least.

Our tank is on the little Island and has Sarth facing east (right) viewed from the entrance. For the flame wave from the west I just stand next to Sarth and everything is fine. For the other side I have to move a bit north, but I'm still in range of the tank there, unless I'm not close enough to a line drawn to the north from him.

As an additional pointer I'd suggest that you stay away from the other MT healer. It has happened to me that at a hairy moment a voidzone spawned under us and we both had to move, followed by a lava wave. The tank didn't survive.

I've been trying to just take the lava wave if I need to heal and keep myself alive with Binding Heal. It works well enough. A Paladin can do the same with Beacon of Light, or perhaps simply Divine Shield. For other healers I wouldn't recommend it. The only problem I have is incidental fire raining, when I'm about half health or less from the flame wall. It can certainly be lethal.

i asked some similar questions a few pages back requarding Sarth tank healing and positioning.

Reguading 2:
What i'd suggest is to avoid standing UNDER Sarth for any period of time. Its very dangerous, as you've seen, one slight adjustment in either direction can put you in the tail swipe or cleave--not deadly, but also in the path of the breath. Rather, i'd recommend going under and walking through to the otherside of Sarth, assuming the positioning allows for it, and standing just on the other side of Sarth for avoiding flame walls.

Since i adjusted my pathing, i'm rarely hit by tailswipe, unless i'm slow in reacting (moving with the tank) and i have not been breathed on since that first time , and i also don't have to worry about tilting or adjusting my camera to see void zones while i'm positioned under Sarth. Once i'm on the opposite side, and the wall has passed, i can pause and heal up the MT if needed, then will move back to original position.


also i wouldn't really recommend just taking the firewalls, as that dot ticks pretty heavy while Shadron is up.

Thanks.
I stay quite away from Sarth, so that the adds OT can more easily taunt the adds on me, and anticipate when possible the lava wall to reduce the distance. So I'm not sure to be really willing to increase still more the distance. But if that's the only solution, I'll take it, especially when a breath is coming (if it just happened, then I'm fine).
The adds caused us a few wipes, and that's until now the best solution we found. An enraged adds kills me very fast :s

For the void zone, we are always separated, except when dodging a lava wall. So that's fine. Only time we had trouble was when the tank, for any reason, was taking huge damage. So I stayed healing a little bit too long, and took a lava wall.
And for the difficult part, I'm not really happy to take lava wall. With all debuffs, I'm not sure to survive, even spamming binding heals.

Neither would I. But sometimes you will be caught out of position behind on healing and a breath is coming. Then you have to stay and heal. But it is survivable, so you shouldn't gamble with the life of the MT and just stay and heal.

This should really never happen. You and the other person healing the MT should be standing in opposite safe zones, so no matter where the lava wave comes from, only one of you has to move. The other person can assist while they're moving with prayer of mending/holy shock or power word: shield/sacred shield.

I'd be careful about that, as with the pushback from the lava wave (which will interrupt your cast anyway) and 4000 damage a tick, if your reaction time isn't good, you have a good shot of dying. I could do it for Sarth +2, but on +3, I was mostly dead by the time I stopped bouncing. It's never worth the risk to me.

As for two healers on the MT, is the paladin focusing on the MT only? One of our paladins is terrible at just focusing on MT as he likes to be more useful and help out on add tanks and the raid, so he would often only help during breath burst. As each drake dies, the tank takes more damage from Sarth's melee hits. If you can spare the healer, it's a good idea, but I've always seen two healers be able to cover the MT pretty well, plus the addition of TT to the raid makes healing overall more intensive, if less panicked. We've had disc + holy priest, and holy priest + holy paladin on MT and we haven't had to devote anyone to MT specifically unless one of the two died. I think everyone pitches in though, so I can't entirely say how much of that was just the two healers.