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Old 01/26/09, 9:17 AM   #271
LaseenAD
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Concerning Holy priest raid healing capabilities:

I'm glad to see I am not the only one who thinks that raid healing as a Holy priest now is clunky and feels odd. Since Naxx doesn't really have a lot of AoE damage (apart from perhaps Kel'Thuzad's frost blasts as we tend to run melee heavy) you don't really feel it there, while Sartharion with drakes up and Malygos P2 have become a bit of a pain to heal for me.

I have considered whether stacking haste is a way to get more efficient with "filling", which seems to be basically flash heal spam. Or maybe getting a crit set for tank healing in order to keep Inspiration up? Both seem a bit contrived, and I am struggling to find something that feels useful and efficient.

My guild is working on perfecting our execution of Sarth2D and will start on Sarth3D once our 2D take downs are smoother. I'm worried about being put on raid healing there though, as I felt unfomfortable already with raid healing the two drake scenario after the patch.
If you've done this pre and post patch, are the changes affecting your healing style? Are you filling a different role to before? Did you have to rethink your gear/gem choices?

I even tried out Lightwell as a solution to stabilise raid healing, but it's hard to spot in a fight where you have so many AoE effects and adds around, plus due to raid movement, it's too often far away from where people are standing.

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Old 01/26/09, 10:13 AM   #272
Lambi
Don Flamenco
 
Lambi's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Talnivarr (EU)
Originally Posted by LaseenAD View Post
Concerning Holy priest raid healing capabilities:


My guild is working on perfecting our execution of Sarth2D and will start on Sarth3D once our 2D take downs are smoother. I'm worried about being put on raid healing there though, as I felt unfomfortable already with raid healing the two drake scenario after the patch.
If you've done this pre and post patch, are the changes affecting your healing style? Are you filling a different role to before? Did you have to rethink your gear/gem choices?
Well I definitely feel haste is the right way to go... but I'm totally the wrong person to ask, since I've always loved haste in every situation. I'd recommend you speccing discipline for that fight, put yourself on MT healing and help out with PoMs and shielding the OTs (shielding actually gives you a huge haste buff, so this is a great tool for reactive MT healing). Right now the only really viable way of doing that fight as holy is being put in the same group as DPS and PoH.

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Old 01/26/09, 1:40 PM   #273
grayrest
Piston Honda
 
grayrest's Avatar
 
Troll Shaman
 
Chromaggus
Originally Posted by Hungtar View Post
So if you run with two tanks and go all out dps in P1 and have the tanks blow cooldowns etc. if might work. But i don't think you can pull that of with a plate dps as second tank. On the other hand, i would be happy to be proven wrong.
The best offtanking spec is 23/48/0 (possibly move deathchill to lichborne but I like deathchill). It's 1-2% off the min/max frost dps spec and gets everything but the 5% in anticipation as a tank. If Stalagg/Feugen are the problem, stick the DK in tank gear (full t7.5 is ~70% avoidance in this spec) and have him burn a cooldown ever time he's on that side. He should easily be able to pull 3k dps (pre +- buff) with a weapon/sigil swap on Thaddius. It's not like you'll need the dps to beat the Thaddius enrage. Now this all assumes a certain gear level, but if you're doing crazy stuff like solo healing/tanking naxx, then gear expectations aren't unreasonable.

@Lambi:
I'm actually really curious how you pulled Thaddius and Gothik off. I would think a lightwell on Feugen's side would cover most of it with you on Stalagg sending the tank over with a pom, but I'd like to know how you actually did it.

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Old 01/26/09, 3:39 PM   #274
Corazu
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Exodar
Originally Posted by grayrest View Post
I'm actually really curious how you pulled Thaddius and Gothik off. I would think a lightwell on Feugen's side would cover most of it with you on Stalagg sending the tank over with a pom, but I'd like to know how you actually did it.
Wouldn't that be vice versa? Feugen has the aura - or does Stalagg hit harder? There is the possibility he had an offspec heal the one side though.

I'd be interested as well - I was at the point in our 10m where I was pretty much able to solo heal most of it. Gothik would of course pose the largest issue, next in line being 4H. It was hectic enough with only 2 healers. But I think on those fights they could be negated by having an offspec healer. Kel'thuzad would be impossible unless you got really lucky, if you didn't have someone who could throw a quick heal on you if you got hit. And sapphiron wouldn't be too fun either, to be honest.

Something that came to mind in regards to Kel solo, even without an offspec healer, is if you managed to keep yourself topped up and with a PWS running at full (would still require luck for it not to be depleted by an aoe frostbolt) is that the shield would save you from death (especially as discipline) thus making the encounter, while difficult, still possible to solo.

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Old 01/26/09, 10:19 PM   #275
Sebalot
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Lambi View Post
Glyph of PoH helped a ton, max haste is also very very useful. I'm at 700+ haste and it really makes a difference... closing in on 800 haste fully elixired and so on.
Warning, slightly OT: I was thinking of current priest gear. In TBC post-Karazhan there were loads of gaps in peoples gear but in WotLK people have tonnes of crit, haste and spell power already. Where are they going to go gearwise for Ulduar and beyond? Are we going to end up with 40% crit and 30% haste? Or is the gear going to push spellpower and AP only, to keep haste and crit at reasonable levels? If so, what will that do with the scaling of spells when we gain lots of spell power.

This development (ie, being well rounded very early) is even more noticable for my warlock. I am hitcapped, have 25% crit and 10% haste already in addition to a good amount of spell power. In TBC destro was out of the question at the equivalent level due to not enough crit available.

Anyway, hope we don't get to see a lot of future 'healing gear' with loads of mp5 on it, just because they didn't want to give us too much of the other stats. I do feel there is a risk they gave us too much too fast initially and will have to hold back quite a bit in the future, making upgrades feel small.

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Old 01/26/09, 10:30 PM   #276
constantius
Soda Popinski
 
Pandaren Priest
 
Windrunner
The next tier is pretty easy: add 5-10% to each stat (stam/int/spi/spell/crit/haste) on the item, provide a couple more items that have 6 stats instead of 5 (think rings: stam/int/spi/crit/haste/spell /drool), and most importantly, waste as much ilvl as possible on sockets.

It's the tier after Ulduar that I'm terrified of. Basically, at that point, every priest will have 30% haste, 30% crit, and 3000 spellpower raid-buffed, along with ~ 1600 spirit (assuming you gear for it). It's pretty hard to go beyond that without making it silly. The only thing they can do is force us to stack regen by making fights stupidly long, or introduce scaling mechanics into the zones like Sunwell.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

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Old 01/26/09, 11:08 PM   #277
Finkum
Don Flamenco
 
Dwarf Paladin
 
Gundrak
Alternately, they may create new stats (like how haste and resilience were news stat in TBC) and just sprinkle that on higher iLevel gear.

However at this point it's difficult to think of new stats that aren't either 1) highly specialised or 2) a random hodge-podge of different effects *cough* resilience *cough*.

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Old 01/26/09, 11:09 PM   #278
Inken
Glass Joe
 
Undead Priest
 
<RoE>
Khaz'goroth
ok got bored and started to convert the key buffs in to ilvl points for the healers...

Not sure it means much now there is less stacking - but is interesting any way. It kinda points to what we all know. They did not really level the buffs when they leveled the healing.



Are there other buffs that should be counted?

thoughts?

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Old 01/26/09, 11:12 PM   #279
Inken
Glass Joe
 
Undead Priest
 
<RoE>
Khaz'goroth
Originally Posted by Finkum View Post
Alternately, they may create new stats (like how haste and resilience were news stat in TBC) and just sprinkle that on higher iLevel gear.

However at this point it's difficult to think of new stats that aren't either 1) highly specialised or 2) a random hodge-podge of different effects *cough* resilience *cough*.
They could just start adding resistance back on gear like the old wow tier sets, then make more fights need it.

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Old 01/26/09, 11:14 PM   #280
Sebalot
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Finkum View Post
Alternately, they may create new stats (like how haste and resilience were news stat in TBC) and just sprinkle that on higher iLevel gear.

However at this point it's difficult to think of new stats that aren't either 1) highly specialised or 2) a random hodge-podge of different effects *cough* resilience *cough*.
Yay, a robe with 40 luck on it!

On a serious note, they could probably alter some coefficients later in the game if it gets out of hand rather than introduce gimmicky stats. Alternatively they will do something with Int/spi for casters and Agi for melee for example, and push that on the gear instead.

Last edited by Sebalot : 01/26/09 at 11:24 PM.

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Old 01/27/09, 2:19 AM   #281
Sinndir
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Priest
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by constantius View Post
The next tier is pretty easy: add 5-10% to each stat (stam/int/spi/spell/crit/haste) on the item, provide a couple more items that have 6 stats instead of 5 (think rings: stam/int/spi/crit/haste/spell /drool), and most importantly, waste as much ilvl as possible on sockets.

It's the tier after Ulduar that I'm terrified of. Basically, at that point, every priest will have 30% haste, 30% crit, and 3000 spellpower raid-buffed, along with ~ 1600 spirit (assuming you gear for it). It's pretty hard to go beyond that without making it silly. The only thing they can do is force us to stack regen by making fights stupidly long, or introduce scaling mechanics into the zones like Sunwell.
I don't know about everyone else's gear sets but I am approaching 30% crit, 30% haste, 3000 spell power raid buffed (25%, 25%, 2950 respectively). The only thing I don't have that high yet is 1600 spirit (which I recently dumped gemming for it for more throughput stats). In my ideal gear set, I'll be at 25.4% crit, 27.1% haste, and 3056 spell power.

I think come the end of Ulduar I'll be pushing 3500 if not 4000 spellpower (assuming items give upgrades of 25-50 spellpower and some change in spirit here and there). As well, once your Warlocks get over 2800 spellpower (pre-totem of wrath) then the demonology buff for 10% of their spellpower becomes better for you than Totem of Wrath.

[edit]
Thanks gsman20 for the clarification.

Last edited by Sinndir : 01/27/09 at 6:59 PM. Reason: Updated, clarification. Thanks gsman20!

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Old 01/27/09, 4:25 AM   #282
gsman20
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Priest
 
Der Mithrilorden (EU)
Originally Posted by Sinndir View Post
I don't know about everyone else's gear sets but I am approaching 30% crit, 30% haste, 3000 spell power raid buffed (25%, 25%, 2950 respectively). The only thing I don't have that high yet is 1600 spirit (which I recently dumped gemming for it for more throughput stats). In my ideal gear set, I'll be at 25.4% crit, 27.1% haste, and 3056 spell power.

I think come the end of Ulduar I'll be pushing 3500 if not 4000 spellpower (assuming items give upgrades of 25-50 spellpower and some change in spirit here and there). As well, once you get over 2800 spellpower (pre-totem of wrath) then the demonology buff of +10% spellpower becomes better.
Aren't the +10% SP based on the Warlock's Spellpower?

Demonic Pact

Last edited by gsman20 : 01/27/09 at 4:26 AM. Reason: Typo

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Old 01/27/09, 4:59 AM   #283
Incoherence
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by constantius View Post
The next tier is pretty easy: add 5-10% to each stat (stam/int/spi/spell/crit/haste) on the item, provide a couple more items that have 6 stats instead of 5 (think rings: stam/int/spi/crit/haste/spell /drool), and most importantly, waste as much ilvl as possible on sockets.

It's the tier after Ulduar that I'm terrified of. Basically, at that point, every priest will have 30% haste, 30% crit, and 3000 spellpower raid-buffed, along with ~ 1600 spirit (assuming you gear for it). It's pretty hard to go beyond that without making it silly. The only thing they can do is force us to stack regen by making fights stupidly long, or introduce scaling mechanics into the zones like Sunwell.
And this is why I keep saying that a regen nerf (in particular, a Replenishment nerf seems like the logical outcome) is inevitable. We're in T7 gear and sitting on about as much sustainability as we had in mid-T6.

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Old 01/27/09, 6:13 AM   #284
tiltie
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Aegwynn (EU)
deleted

Last edited by tiltie : 02/14/09 at 8:14 PM.

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Old 01/27/09, 8:34 AM   #285
Altarion
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Doomhammer (EU)
Originally Posted by tiltie View Post
holy priest in 2-healer sarth10-3d after coh nerf

I used to be able to deal with drake tank+raid and cross heavily on the adds tank with some sort of 7-second PoM-based rotations. After 3.0.8, I felt some serious limitation on my burst multi-target throughput when consecutive coh would've stabilized the situation.

I also tried to heal the sarth tank in some tries, and as holy I felt there are certain "dice-roll" situations after GS has been blown (throughput limited due to movements forced by shadow or firewall) mid-encounter.

I have tried with both heavy haste and heavy crit gears but there are some bursty situations that would always screw me because i simply don't have ways of stabilizing the inc damage. Seems like switching to disc would help me in both cases because of the extra mobility and the better "float" healing. What are your thoughts about the capabilities of Holy spec in 2-healer situations?
Ive killed 3Drakes10 before the CoH nerf and after, with various healer set ups. Holy Priest and Holy Pala, and also Holy Priest and Resto Druid; always 2 primary healers. We recently killed it for the achievement for some guildies, using a Holy Priest (me) and Resto Druid. I healed the drake tank (war), adds tank (prot pala) and raid, while the resto druid focused on the Sarth tank, a DK. Our set up was melee heavy.

My feeling was that the fight was much the same pre the CoH nerf, until twilight torment really started to bite; ie when we were finishing off Shadron. The tactic I used was to use CoH on almost each CD, use SoL procs on any low HP player (CoH is great for generating these), keep a PoM bouncing around, use the odd renew (but few) while having a GH in the pipe for the drake tank. At the same time the resto druid used the odd Wild Growth on melee, but I believe not that often, because he needed to keep a close eye on the MT. The timing of all of this is a little hard to define, as you need to react very fast if the drakes tank takes a breath, as the tank has 2 drakes on him (Shadron and Vesperon).

I also asked dps to watch their HP really carefully as we finished Shadron off, and if needed take a quick pause. I assured them I would heal them, but needed make sure the drake and adds tanks were stable before. I feel this latter part of the fight, with melee watching their HP and stopping dps for a moment if needed was helpful. Previously, I just used to slam some CoH's in, but now a little more care is needed at that juncture. It all worked fine, delivering us a lovely kill.

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