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Old 01/29/09, 1:55 PM   #1
l337n00b
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Vek'nilash
Discipline Spreadsheet

I had several requests to upload my discipline spreadsheet so people could take a look at it. I tried to add some documentation to the front of it so that it would make some sense.

You can download the spreadsheet from:
Book80dp_v6.xls - FileFront.com

I'm interested in any comments or suggestions, of course, as well as discussion of the method I used. And of course if I am dead wrong about any of my calculations I'd love to hear that too. If you have no interest in having a single-output metric for evaluating healing gear, then this sheet is not for you and you can safely ignore it.

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Old 01/30/09, 2:29 AM   #2
Squeakster
Piston Honda
 
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Eitrigg
I'm really impressed so far. I just have a couple of questions on how to use it: on the page for entering WWS data, in the "hits" table there are columns labeled "Ren" and "Duration", WWS lists "dots" for renew - is that number what goes in the "Ren" column? Also, is the "Duration" column the length of the raid in seconds?

Also on that page, in the crits table there are columns listed for PWS and PWS glyph and it looks like you entered the same number for both, but PWS itself can't crit so should that column even exist?

On the Comparison tab, are the stat values I should enter my completely unbuffed stats (I noticed you said to factor out Mental Strength)?


It is really impressive so far, I am going to spend some more time tomorrow looking at it more closely.

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Old 01/30/09, 9:32 AM   #3
l337n00b
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Vek'nilash
Yes, I didn't distinguish between hits and hots for Renew since either way they are just counts of the applications of healing, so just use the ticks number.

WWS doesn't actually count the number of PW:S's you got, so I use the Glyph of PW:S numbers to count PW:S's. Whether the count for the number of PW:S's in entered in the crit or the hit section makes not difference to the calculations so I just enter it with the hits and crits on the glyph to keep things simple for myself, rather than adding the number manually. The only thing the spreadsheet does with the actual data on the number of hits and crits is adjusts the overheal value to compensate for the reduced critical value.

Use unbuffed stats for the comparison page, as I note, the buffs that *I* usually have are already factored in, and I'll probably add a page where you can toggle on and off buffs to make it match your own raid. But while I'm pretty obsessive about generating my own actual numbers (and I'm sure some others on this board are as well) getting the precise value for each stat is not going to have a significant impact on the stat valuation part of it (e.g., int and spirit make each other better, but having 20 or 40 more of one is not going to make the other that much better really).

For duration, simply enter the number of seconds of healing time from WWS. When you click on yourself from the Raids and Mobs section it's right at the top, HPS time listed as minutes and seconds, and mousing over will show the number of seconds if it's gone to hours and minutes mode. To be honest, I put that in but I'm not 100% sure it has any effect on anything, aside from creating your hps number from your total healed number (but that has no effect on the stat valuations).

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Old 01/30/09, 11:40 AM   #4
dfscott
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Windrunner
Nice work!

Question about the MP5 value: should this be your actual amount of MP5 on your gear, your IFSR regen rating, or your OFSR regen rating? I'm guessing it's IFSR, but just wanted to be sure.

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Old 01/30/09, 12:38 PM   #5
l337n00b
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Vek'nilash
Mp5 is the actual Mp5 on your gear. I generally get this by just subtracting the amount on the spirit tooltip from the oofsr amount on the mana regen tooltip. Now that you mention it, it would probably be easier to just input the amount on the tooltip and have the sheet do the subtraction for you, I'll probably make this change.

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Old 01/30/09, 1:39 PM   #6
dfscott
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Windrunner
Ok, so if I'm understanding this correctly, once I've entered my talents, WWS info and stats, I can look at the comparison tab and the table labeled "additive comparison" will give me gear weights that I could then use for comparisons with something like Pawn or Lootrank, correct? And if I'm just looking to increase my raw throughput, I could instead use the hps comparison values?

I understand I'm oversimplifying here, since I need to take into account mana pool and regen, but I'm just trying to get a general idea of what the yellow boxes are trying to tell me.

Edit: also, I noticed you don't take into account the Divine Fury talent. I know many disc priests use it, so I was wondering if this is intentional or if you thought it was just not worth considering (since we don't cast Gheal that much anyway).

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Old 01/30/09, 2:44 PM   #7
l337n00b
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Vek'nilash
It's true, Divine Fury doesn't appear anywhere on the sheet. Much like inspiration, this is a talent I have and will continue to have into the foreseeable future (though 3.1 might bring changes that change my mind, I suppose). The way I do the calculations on the sheet, however, the casting time of spells really doesn't change anything except the value of haste. In fact, when I look at it, the sheet assumes you do have Divine Fury. If you didn't, the place that this would most likely show up would be in your WWS logs, since without Divine Fury or Improved Healing (and who would have Improved Healing without Divine Fury) you most likely wouldn't ever cast Greater Heal in the first place. But I am adding this to my list of omissions in the documentation.

You have the idea of the sheet exactly. You can use the numbers in the yellow boxes as stat valuations for Pawn, for searching wowhead, or whatever. The sheet gives three valuations for stats, one for healing output, one for mana use, and one that adds the two together given the spp:int ratio you select.

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Old 02/03/09, 11:11 AM   #8
dfscott
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Windrunner
I've been playing with this for a while now, and one thing that seems curious is that as I gear up, it keeps ranking the value of crit lower and lower. Just to see, I swapped some gear out, deliberately dropping my crit by about 60 and bumping my SP around 500 or so. I expected to see the value of crit rise as I reduced it, but instead, it actually become worth even less (maybe because I'm overhealing more?).

Here are the numbers I'm seeing in the additive comparison section (note: I've changed the spp:int ration to .95, which is more in keeping with my style):

int: 100
spirit: 31
crit: 52
mp5: 95
spp: 95
haste: 88

On gut feel, it I would tend to think that the haste value should look more like the crit value and vice versa. Is this because it's not considering the secondary benefits of crit (i.e., divine aegis)? Or am I just over-emphasizing the value of crit?

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Old 02/03/09, 2:46 PM   #9
l337n00b
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by dfscott View Post
I've been playing with this for a while now, and one thing that seems curious is that as I gear up, it keeps ranking the value of crit lower and lower. Just to see, I swapped some gear out, deliberately dropping my crit by about 60 and bumping my SP around 500 or so. I expected to see the value of crit rise as I reduced it, but instead, it actually become worth even less (maybe because I'm overhealing more?).

Here are the numbers I'm seeing in the additive comparison section (note: I've changed the spp:int ration to .95, which is more in keeping with my style):

int: 100
spirit: 31
crit: 52
mp5: 95
spp: 95
haste: 88

On gut feel, it I would tend to think that the haste value should look more like the crit value and vice versa. Is this because it's not considering the secondary benefits of crit (i.e., divine aegis)? Or am I just over-emphasizing the value of crit?
The sheet is certainly factoring in Divine Aegis. I also thought crit seemed a little low intuitively, but I'm pretty confident everything is being calculated as it should. I did some quick tests myself, and found that less crit tended to mean crit became more valuable, more spell power also made crit more valuable, both to be expected. I'd be interested to see the exact numbers you used, since if dropping crit and increasing spell power reduces the relative value of crit as a stat, something is wrong. I'm also interested that the sheet seems to value mp5 a lot higher for you than it does for me, which is odd since a higher spp:int ratio would tend to devalue mp5, as it is only a regen stat with no throughput.

A few things you can try altering if you want:

1) I have a divine aegis utilization rate of 89% in there. This was calculated through Promethia's onerous empirical research, and seems to jive well with my own less rigorous findings. I think this is the right value to use, but it may vary depending on the type of healing being done (tank healing should mean almost all shields absorbed, raid healing less so)

2) I am using varied crit values depending on spell based on my own findings from my WWS logs. It has been pointed out in the theorycrafting thread that these values most likely varies a great deal between 10 and 25 man raids. With 25 people the dominant factor in determining overheals is cross-healer interference, not criticals. Changing these values to 50% would factor out the overhealing issue with crit entirely. I'm not sure what the best numbers to use for 25 man raids are.

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Old 02/03/09, 3:10 PM   #10
dfscott
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Windrunner
Thanks for the reply.

I haven't started Naxx yet (only done a few Sarth runs) so much of my WWS info comes from heroics. It's possible that the WWS info I entered was entered incorrectly or skewed the results.

I currently have:
Int: 828
Spi: 423
Crit: 200
MP5: 16
SPP: 1593
Haste: 322

I don't have the exact values before my gear swap, but it was around 260 crit and 1490 SP and everything else was pretty similar. I did save the "before" values in the additive part:

Int: 100 -> 100
spi: 28 -> 31
crit: 56 -> 53
mp5: 87 -> 95
spp: 95 -> 95
haste: 82 -> 89

Also, my WWS logs were from 2 back-to-back heroics (UP & Nexus) and I just lumped them all into one so maybe that caused a problem?

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Old 02/03/09, 6:22 PM   #11
constantius
Soda Popinski
 
Pandaren Priest
 
Windrunner
If you're not going to specifically talk about the spreadsheet, its flaws or benefits, and how to make it better, this thread is going to get scrapped very quickly. There's no need for a back-and-forth "I put in these numbers and got this response out of it" here.

Not trying to detract from the value of your work, but if this is going to be a genuine thread, it needs to have some discussion and a goal, not merely lists of what people put into the spreadsheet.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

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Old 02/03/09, 6:47 PM   #12
Squeakster
Piston Honda
 
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Eitrigg
They are listing what they put into the spreadsheet so they can figure out if it is calculating the value of crit correctly, seems reasonable to me.

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Old 02/04/09, 4:31 AM   #13
Sylvina
Glass Joe
 
Undead Priest
 
The Venture Co (EU)
What does HN stand for in your spreadsheet?

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Old 02/05/09, 2:54 AM   #14
Sylvina
Glass Joe
 
Undead Priest
 
The Venture Co (EU)
I guess Holy Nova...

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Old 02/05/09, 9:30 AM   #15
l337n00b
Von Kaiser
 
Human Priest
 
Vek'nilash
Originally Posted by dfscott View Post
Thanks for the reply.

I haven't started Naxx yet (only done a few Sarth runs) so much of my WWS info comes from heroics. It's possible that the WWS info I entered was entered incorrectly or skewed the results.
Using heroics for your sample will tell you how to gear for heroics, which is certainly different than how to gear for raids. I played around with some invented inputs on WWS log section and got numbers that were more like yours than like the ones it usually gives me, but no matter what I did I couldn't recreate a situation where increasing the inputted spell power and lowering the crit rating decreased the value of crit that the sheet outputted. I'm going to have to double check the calculations, especially on the crit sheet, to try to sort out how that could happen, because it seems to me right now that there shouldn't be a way this could happen in reality (as opposed to in spreadsheet land).

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