Ha ha, yeah if what you and I just posted is the reasoning behind the 12 second internal CD it still doesnt make much sense, you will still not receive this "energize" effect more then twice every 30 seconds no matter how you work the system.

Which even gives you a 6 second gap in the internal cooldown which cannot be circumvented.

If they would just change it to a 15 second ICD instead of the odd 12 seconds then my mind would no longer be on the verge of explosion.

Wow, I was just starting to get a good handle on stat weighting for choosing gear. It would appear that the new changes make crit a significantly more attractive stat than it already was. And the Rapture changes will surely devalue haste for us by a good chunk, since we won't necessarily have the mana to sustain spammy healing. And of course we'll also have to worry more about stacking regen stats than we currently do.

Since we'll be using our Naxx gear in Ulduar, does anybody have any idea what stat weighting should be in gearing for Ulduar?

It may be a bug that it is currently not limited on the priest. It is also possible that there will be a coming change that reduces WS under 12 seconds.

I await updated patch notes and blue responses to understand the true change.

If it is working as intended on the PTR right now...

- Per Target: (25k * 0.025 / 15 * 5) = 208.3mp5
- Maximum - Every GCD cast PW:S all consumed: (25k * 0.025 / 1.0 * 5) = 3125mp5

Limited to 12 sec...

- Maximum - Consumed shield every 12 sec: (25k * 0.025 / 12 * 5) = 260.4mp5

Current Rapture returns...

- If I remember correctly the maximum return from Rapture is somewhere around 2000mp5 @ 25k mana. Accounting for 100% effective healing and DA consumption.
- I personally in live data have seen as high as ~1200mp5.

Summary
Based on the numbers and Blizzards goal of making mana management a concern there being no 12 sec CD sounds un-intended. In looking at the numbers you can see that it would be possible to exceed current rapture regen with the no CD limitation on the new rapture effect. As it stands if there will be a 12 sec limitation 260mp5 at 25k mana isn't bad, though it will lead nearly unmanageable play attempt to reach the theoretical maximum.

Not only that but re-applying PW:S and proc'ing the Rapture return sounds extremely questionable.

The concerns I have with a CD to the rapture effect, is that attempting to "manage" PW:S applications such that damage will cause a PW:S to get consumed as near after the 12 second period as possible...
- The optimum scenario requires perfectly timing shield consumptions using 2 targets. 12sec rapture CD < 15sec WS CD
- Maintaining WS debuff for additional DA from crit is now more valuable on your primary target.
- My testing indicates that DA consumed first, this could prolong the time PW:S is remains unconsumed.
- Mana regen is reliant on accounting for incoming target damage per situation.

The last of which is out of our control. All we know is when PW:S was consumed (last proc time), when it can next proc (generally), and when we can next cast PW:S on the same target. Looking at the primary scenario of MT healing:
If you pre-shielded the tank and immediately engage mobs, noting that it fades in ~5 seconds... You have 10 seconds till you can reapply but 12 seconds before you can proc Rapture again. So do you immediately reshield when WS fades? If damage spikes it could consume <2 seconds. If you wait 2 seconds and reapply it could take X time to get consumed. Both scenarios reduce the mp5 value significantly. You could shield 2-3 tanks staggered and still have mana scenarios very out of your control that reduce mp5 value or increase it.

This isn't even as reliable as Holy priests manipulating oo5sr time. At least then you knew I crit -> use inner focus -> using stop casting... Here there is a lot of uncertainty. I could see it being possible to rely on 2 procs per minute if you use PW:S consistently, but there is no guarantee that you will exceed that level of effectiveness without rng help or ESP.

There would be some sense for the 12s cd to be on the mana-return effect for the priest.

Basically, it says that you can get a free PW:S on one target, but not on many.
I know that 12s is less than 15s, but the cd for mana-return must be shorter than weakened soul if they don't want us to loose half of the procs because of random time between shielding and full absorbtion.

It would at least be on par with the grace change, and the idea that disc is a mono-target healer.

If there is no cd for mana-return, disc will be too strong on some fights (just keep shielding all-time, throw POM, no one can beat it on Sapphiron I guess, and for Malygos Vortex, it would be also so powerful to become close to necessary), and really "normal" on other fights (when raid damage isn't predictable in 30s, so you can't shield preemptively). That's kind of broken game when your value is such different between fights ( I don't say we should have the same utility in all fights, but the difference must be controlled).

Keep in mind that with the PvP 4 piece set bonus, WS is lowered to 13 secs, which is close enough to the 12 seconds hidden cooldown on the energize. Maybe in Season 9000 the set bonus is -3 seconds on WS. Or maybe they just want us to wander around the curious fact that 12 seconds just came out of nowhere while we let more pressing matters be pushed aside.

Given all these changes, I really can't see how Discipline will keep up in longer fights against Holy Paladins and even Holy Priests. Many changes are just plain contradictory, as mentioned many times here, so I'll just wait for the character copy to open up again before making any decision, which means a whole new wardrobe and accessories.

Could downranking PW: Shield to ensure full absorption be an idea?

From my test in the actual PTR, the PW:Shield rapture effect is triggered by full absorption, dispel, time out or even right click. If I cast on myself PWS then wait 28 sec then right click it I have 514 mana back. If I cast it again immediatly and right click again I gain 514 right away.

So that means that with 21K+ mana and the talents that reduce its cost, PWS is essentially a free spell.

I have not been able to test the energize on two targets, but when I casted it on a mage and cast again every 15 sec, the mage gained 2% of his mana every time and I gained my 514 mana everytime.

Hope that it will clear things for you all.

So currently on the PTR, casting PW:S procs rapture when the shield is removed no matter how the shield is removed. This basicly means that as soon as your mana pool reaches 21360 (derived from the new PWS cost a few posts back) you should spam PWS on every free GCD since it will yield more mana back then spent.

If rapture gets changed to also a 12s proc CD for us, it means we should cast at least one PWS every 12seconds. With a 25K mana pool this would yield to ~38mp5 and to ~90mp5 for a 30K mana pool.

What I don't like about the new Rapture is that ultimately you get less mana returns the larger your shield gets, because it won't fully absorbed quite as often. Maybe they should make Rapture work only for shields, but let it give mana from partial absorbs like now.

I wouldn't expect to ever see PW: Barrier. There is no reference to it anywhere in the PTR notes or recent Blizz posts. It doesn't fit into the tree and it would make Disc too similar to Holy. Better ask for improved output elsewhere I'm afraid.


From the patch-notes:
Reflective Shield has been moved from Tier 7 to Tier 5. It is now a 2 point talent and causes 22/45% of the damage you absorb with Power Word: Shield to reflect back at the attacker.

It's self-only just like before. It just costs less points now. Definitely not for raiding.

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - If these changes are true for Disc...

Hm. Wonder if they're either (still) not aware of how rapture is working on PTR atm with no cd on the proc for the priest, or if it's really intended to not have a cooldown?

Also, what could these "1 or 2" more disc talents be we haven't seen yet. PW:Barrier obviously one, but 2?

I have been able to test with 2 people in the ptr : there is no 12 cd cooldown neither. Each player received the buff, even at 2 sec intervals and I was receiving the full mana return.

I do believe it is bugged at this moment, because that would mean that we could PWS 10 people every 15 sec, for 7K absorption plus 1K+ heal (glyph) plus these 10 people would receive 15 energy/8 rage/ 2% mana/ 32 runic powers per 15 sec. A little bit too much I think. Oh and those 10 pws would not cost a single mana.