3.1 PTR - Page 2

cloudscraper · 02/24/09, 5:21 PM

Dear dude, I am in a hurry (it's night here) but I noticed a huge mistake in your calculation.

You can't obtain the "burst" from PERIODIC * 0.15, since this way you are taking crits into account.

And the burst will do standard total spell's damage * 0.15

Gonna hear from ya tomorrow anyway to find an intersection between different maths

rooj · 02/24/09, 5:37 PM

There is no question that disc mana regen has been nerfed with the change to rapture.

However, there is also no question that disc mana regen HAD to get nerfed. It just wasn't viable. I would regularly finish with near a full mana bar if i was healing "correctly", the only way i could even spend 1/2 my mana would be to try and use HN or PoH even when i didn't need to.

It is sad to see such a great talent get nerfed and changed, but i am okay with it as long as smart play will allow for enough regen to do our jobs. The big question will be whether the change to PWS will relegate us even more to single target/tank healing. If PW barrier is implemented than it might change that equation, which i hope will be the case. Besides remember that even as full disc we will be getting a fair amount of points in holy, and i don't see the changes really affecting how we distribute our points. I am waiting on the changes to the Divine Hymn.

Janraea · 02/24/09, 5:41 PM

Originally Posted by cloudscraper

Why are you DIVIDING by 1.25 to remove crit chance?

That's how the math works..
Base * 1.25 = Current, so Base = Current / 1.25.

I do want to point out though that the Instant line should be
Instant = Base*0.15*(1 + 0.125) = .92x * .15 * (1.125) = = 0.15525x

The value being used for the instant portion is calculated from your 'Base' value - it doesn't factor in the crit chance for you, but the instant portion CAN crit, so your numbers wind up being right anyway. It's possible you just factored that part out in your head, though - if so, my apologies for being anal.

Originally Posted by cloudscraper

Dear dude, I am in a hurry (it's night here) but I noticed a huge mistake in your calculation.
You can't obtain the "burst" from PERIODIC * 0.15, since this way you are taking crits into account.
And the burst will do standard total spell's damage * 0.15
Gonna hear from ya tomorrow anyway to find an intersection between different maths

Yeah, but the Instant can crit, so it works out.

Tyrlir · 02/24/09, 5:57 PM

Originally Posted by cloudscraper

Dear dude, I am in a hurry (it's night here) but I noticed a huge mistake in your calculation.

You can't obtain the "burst" from PERIODIC * 0.15, since this way you are taking crits into account.

And the burst will do standard total spell's damage * 0.15

Gonna hear from ya tomorrow anyway to find an intersection between different maths

From the talent tooltip: "Increases the periodic damage done by your Devouring Plaggue by 5/10/15%, and when you cast Devouring Plague you instantly deal damage equal to 5/10/15% of it's total periodic effect."

Because of the wording 'total periodic effect' I purposely calculated the damage in that order. After thinking it through a bit more though, you may be correct. For the damage to be calculated as I posted earlier all of the crit calculations for each tick of the DoT would have to be done immediately on application of the DoT, which doesn't seem likely, though possible.

As you mentioned, it is more likely that the instant damage calculation does not take into account crit bonus damage on the DoT ticks and should be based solely on the base damage of the DoT, assuming no crits. Taking this into account we arrive at this, which results in about a 2% difference. Assuming that crit bonus damage from DoT ticks isn't accounted for in the instant damage, the new talent will result in a ~17% increase in damage from DP (or ~29% if DoTs are included in the 100% crit bonus talent).

x = Current 3.0.9 DP damage

Base     = (x/1.25)*1.15  = 0.92x                   (Remove existing crit bonus to dots, add new DP periodic bonus)
Crit     = Base*0.25*0.5  = 0.92x*0.25*0.5 = 0.115x (25% of the damage gets a 50% bonus due to dots critting)
Periodic = Base+Crit      = 0.92x + 0.115x = 1.035x
Instant  = Base*0.15      = 0.92x*0.15     = 0.138x

Total   = Periodic + Instant = 1.035x + 0.138x = 1.173x

Edit: Assuming the initial instant damage can crit, Janraea is right and the original numbers are still accurate.

Akhtal · 02/24/09, 6:05 PM

Does anyone know if the DK talent that increases disease damage still increases DP damage? Since they reworked pestilence, they might have taken that out too and it would only even it out (assuming they fix Shadow Power)

Kyai · 02/24/09, 6:32 PM

Originally Posted by Isin

While the GS glyph is interesting, I still think it will require complicated UI watching to know if your GS cooldown got reset or not. It seems like almost more of a headache than it's worth. While It is definitely a nice one, I don't think it's worth giving up Flash Heal, PoH, or CoH glyphs for.

I'm really very interested in the GS glyph. With a 60s cooldown I could see the option of using it as a throughput booster. I'll need to give it a go, but I could see it replacing my PoH glyph.

• Belac_K · 02/24/09, 6:34 PM

Why did they add a Hymn of Hope glyph after they removed the spell? I guess I missed an update or something, but both those statements are right on the front page of MMO-Champion.

Althor · 02/24/09, 7:12 PM

I'm netless at home currently so I haven't been able to test this for myself yet, but reports from shadowpriest.com indicate that:
1) The DoT crits are indeed only at 150% not 200% which is either a nerf or a bug.
2) The old 1% crit == 1% DPS increase on DoTs is apparently still there which is obviously a bug.

However at present with these bugs, it's a buff overall though obviously one that won't last.

Also: Glyph of Mind Sear.....+5 yard radius on Mind Sear? That's going to cause some QQ I imagine. Sure, in a nicely controlled AoE pull everything will be pulled in close enough for all of the AoEers to hit the targets but I'm sure we all know that in practise this doesn't always happen. (Will make it harder to avoid breaking CC's mind you). A 30 yard diameter AoE zone is pretty damned incredible.

That said, they gave Rogues a Glyph of Fan of Knives that boosts it's DPS by 20%.....Because obviously FoK was underpowered. ;P

chase · 02/24/09, 7:19 PM

edit: Apparently the glyph was not data mined.

Akka · 02/24/09, 7:39 PM

What I see being the most notable, is that OO5S regen being cut nearly in half, the removal of clearcast, and I5S regen being able to be pushed up to 75%, spirit-based regen will now act nearly as raw mp5.

Getting OO5S will now net very small gains. Taking into account that you have to wait five second before reaping any reward, that the rewards will be barely one third more than Holy Concentration-buffed regen and the risks incurred by making such healing pause... I'm not even sure it will have a real benefit to get OO5S now during a fight.

That's a pretty huge change in holy priest gameplay. Basically a 180° change to the whole class, going from OO5S-based regen kept on maximizing non-casting time, to IFS-based regen kept on maximizing crit casts.
Wonder how veteran priests are feeling about this.

Starfire · 02/25/09, 12:04 AM

I have no issues with not optimizing OFSR time. I take issues with the general way the game seems to be going for healers. To use Nidaba's term they seem to want us to take 'measured' approach.

I like to call it "conservative". TOO Conservative. It seems they REALLY want us to do things as a healing team. They want us to not heal the guy that has a HoT on him, let the HoT heal him up.

Seems like they have the general opposite expectation for healers than they do for dpsers. Dpsers try their hardest, always. Healers will have to hold back.

Solifer · 02/25/09, 12:13 AM

Oh well. I'm one of those "old-school-priests" out there. I'm paying more attention to mana-effeciency as to HPS. I was quite happy about those 2 clearcasts (SoL and iHC), getting me out of the 5s rule as that's what priests should do to get manaregen. I think I rember those words from a bluepost during BC time. Not to mention healing rotation at the beginning.

I guess as I don t have to watch for clearcasts any longer, holy might become a little "easier". Overall, I can t await the results from the TC in this forum (missed the time to copy my char, duh) as I got some concerns with the new/revamped talents.

* Serendipity (Tier 8 ) changed to: When you heal with Binding Heal or Flash Heal, the cast time of your next Greater Heal or Prayer of Healing spell is reduced by 6/12/20%. Stacks up to 3 times. Lasts 20 sec.

This looks a bit weird to me. 3 Stacks? Mh, -60% casttime on PoH = 1.2 sec, GH = 1.0 sec. That s allready way unter the GCD, even without haste. I don t see the sense in that as you can get down to GCD with 2 Stacks and some haste. Guess 5 stacks would give us another "oh-shot"-button, making it OP - tho I d like that *g* Dunno, could need some tweaking here.

* Holy Concentration (Tier 7) changed to: Your mana regeneration is increased by 16/32/50% for 8 sec after you critically heal with Flash Heal, Greater Heal, Binding Heal or Renew. (Previously had a chance to grant clearcasting effect)

Renew? Is this an error? Did they change renew? Or would this just happen if you take empowered renew (on the initial heal)? I hope it's the 2nd point, but I could bet it s the 3rd one *g* should be mentioned in the tooltip... Anyway, 75% infight regen (or 150% outfight for 3 sec...) sounds nice, hope to see some numbers on this talent from TC-players.

* *New Talent* Empowered Renew, Tier 9, 3 point talent - Your Renew spell gains an additional 5/10/15% of your bonus healing effects, and your Renew will instantly heal the target for 5/10/15% of the total periodic effect.

I like this one and I bet some others do so as well. With 3 points it s a ~20% boost to renew - and respecting HC, even with a crit component. If I got my numbers correctly, the initial heal should be a 1k heal (@2k addheal). Not that much, but it's a 6th tick on renew with the ability to proc HC and SoL - fine.

* Test of Faith (Tier 9) now increases healing by 4/8/12% on friendly targets at or below 50% health.

Instead of 6% crit we get 6% increased healing. Looking at the crit proc talents we got, I d prefer 6% crit over 6% healing, from the target s point of view ("I m going down!!!!11), the increased healing is better as it will be always there and not just a chance to get more healing. As I m focused on raidhealing I don t care too much about this.

Finally, my raiding spec would look like this:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9614

No improved healing? Right, as raid heal I barely use GH and with the changed HC I don t even have a clearcast for it.

No test of faith? Could put 1 point from lolwell in here, but that s it. I prefer the other talents over ToF and I don t have enough points to get it.

Can t await the next PTR-update with talent changes so I can build a new talent spec - that s far more interesting than running around in the Bank of Dalaran :O

Moonkai · 02/25/09, 3:51 AM

Adding to the Disc regen nerf: seems like Divine Aegis no longer benefits from Rapture as well, which leads to crit rating no longer being used as a regen stat.

Malrazor · 02/25/09, 4:00 AM

With the changes to Holy Concentration, I would like to know if it's still recommended to take Surge of Light.
Granted, if Surge of Light procs, that means you've already gotten the 50% increased mana regeneration but that also means that your next Flash Heal will not be able to proc Holy Concentration again.

Venaliter · 02/25/09, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by Malrazor

With the changes to Holy Concentration, I would like to know if it's still recommended to take Surge of Light.
Granted, if Surge of Light procs, that means you've already gotten the 50% increased mana regeneration but that also means that your next Flash Heal will not be able to proc Holy Concentration again.

According to the current numbers I've seen, HC procs in 3.1 are worth about 300 mana over 8 seconds. Flash heal costs 600; Plus, SoL doesnt mean you can't crit again over those next 8 seconds, just you can't crit with that particular flash heal. Pretty safe to say SoL is still one of the top talents in the tree. Take it. Use it!

I'd like to know how SoL generated procs interact with the new serendipity.