Hmmm shadowcrawl? Increases damage done to the targer by 30% for 5 seconds. That is weird blizz did not show that in the patch notes. I wonder how many mobs in raids can be affected by that?
I'm fairly certain it means "damage done by the shadowfiend". It's basically Shadowstep
Wait.. is that the confirmed change? .6? So is the new regen formula
5* 0.003345 * Spirit * Square_root(Intellect)? I am sorry everything i read just stated a reduction in the coefficient, i didn't see what the confirmed number was.
Wait.. is that the confirmed change? .6? So is the new regen formula
5* 0.003345 * Spirit * Square_root(Intellect)? I am sorry everything i read just stated a reduction in the coefficient, i didn't see what the confirmed number was.
Our spirit regen was reduced by 40%
I've also been messing around with a spec that has 1/3 Empowered Renew and 3/3 Improved Renew so Renew is still strong but also still has the chance to proc holy concentration.
However, 1/3 Emp. Renew is not even doing the initial instant heal... sigh.
* Glyph of Guardian Spirit *new* -- If you Guardian Spirit lasts its entire duration without being triggered, your Guardian Spirit cooldown is reset to 60 sec.
This is huge. Being able to make the tank unkillable once a minute will take a ton of pressure and stress out of spike-damage intensive fights; unless this is accompanied by a nerf to the talent that reduces healing in the duration, I think this is probably one of the most underrated buffs to the priest class in 3.1.
council looked much more taxing then Hodir. It looked like a fair amount of medium damage going out raid-wide except for the lightning guys AOE and the 3rd phase but I couldnt get a good healer POV. In general what was the flow of damage like and how was your regen holding up? Do you think the mobility requirements of both these fights makes SOL almost mandatory or were renews/POM/COh enough for the most part while on the move? How were you mitigating the Fusion Punch, with GS etc?
Thanks for the insight.
One important thing to remember is how much mana over the course of a fight surge of light will save us. If you look at Nid's learning attempts on Hordir last night he gained 41 SoL procs in 19 mins and 23 seconds, an average of just over 2 a minute. Each time you SoL proc it saves you ~625 mana, to get the same benefite from Healing Prayers you would need to cast four PoH's a minute (I don't know about you but that is a lot of them and a consumption of ~6k mana a minute).
A very minor point, but I think I would value the free SoL FH as follows:
625 mana = crit capable FH
If a non-crit FH = 1.00, then a crit capable FH with 20% crit = 1 + .20 x .50 = 1.10
Thus, 625 mana / 1.1 = ~570 mana saved
Yeah, minor point
That's a lot of mana though, the equivalent of 1140/minute, or about 100 mp5, or 50mp5/talent pt.
Making it to the third guy I never really had problems as Disc (getting used to the new rapture I suppose). I was basically bounce healing the tanks on the two bigger guys and healing raid when the debuff wasn't on MT. The damage was pretty steady minus spike times (i.e. when MT got debuffed.) We went for medium guy last instead of small guy so things were a bit different when u hit p3. Enjoyable fight though and Disc really seemed a good thing to have one of in there imo.
P.S. Lol at the reaction to Fusion on the PTR Forums.
[quote=Sinndir;1125199]If you look at Nid's learning attempts on Hordir last night he gained 41 SoL procs in 19 mins and 23 seconds, an average of just over 2 a minute. [quote]
A couple notes from this interesting WWS from PTR, linked earlier by Sinndir - maybe this is old news:
1) Guardian Spirit gave him 25k healing - did GS always give the extra 40% healing to the Priest even if it came from others? I must have missed that somewhere.
2) The overhealing from Empowered Renew was 79% - must still be habitual to precast Renew on a topped off tank I guess
3) Looks like Shadowfiend averaged about 5.5k per use (11k total)?
4) Soul of the Dead outperformed Replenishment by 12% or so? Wow. I'm guessing a 45 sec internal cd, but I thought Replenishment would be stronger. My guess is that he is a SP/Crit build with average or below average INT pool(??). I forgot about this trinket.
1) Guardian Spirit gave him 25k healing - did GS always give the extra 40% healing to the Priest even if it came from others? I must have missed that somewhere.
GS increases all healing on the target by 40%, not just the priest's and has since 3.0 hit.
GS increases all healing on the target by 40%, not just the priest's and has since 3.0 hit.
I realize that, but 25K healing felt large enough that I wondered if all of the healing sources would be multiplied by 1.4 and the 40% attributed ALL to the Priest. In retrospect, the Priest could get 28k themselves by healing the target for 70k in that 10 sec window. It may have been 2 GS's also, I forgot to check.
I realize that, but 25K healing felt large enough that I wondered if all of the healing sources would be multiplied by 1.4 and the 40% attributed ALL to the Priest. In retrospect, the Priest could get 28k themselves by healing the target for 70k in that 10 sec window. It may have been 2 GS's also, I forgot to check.
If you look at Nid's learning attempts on Hordir last night he gained 41 SoL procs in 19 mins and 23 seconds, an average of just over 2 a minute.
A couple notes from this interesting WWS from PTR, linked earlier by Sinndir - maybe this is old news:
1) Guardian Spirit gave him 25k healing - did GS always give the extra 40% healing to the Priest even if it came from others? I must have missed that somewhere.
2) The overhealing from Empowered Renew was 79% - must still be habitual to precast Renew on a topped off tank I guess
3) Looks like Shadowfiend averaged about 5.5k per use (11k total)?
4) Soul of the Dead outperformed Replenishment by 12% or so? Wow. I'm guessing a 45 sec internal cd, but I thought Replenishment would be stronger. My guess is that he is a SP/Crit build with average or below average INT pool(??). I forgot about this trinket.
Awina, I'll try to help you out here.
1) GS allows all heals +40% effectiveness on the target. The 25k heal you saw was the tank 'dying' so GS saved them and healed them for half of their life (50k total heal means a 25k heal).
2) As stated just a bit above, empowered renew is currently instant healing only yourself and not your target.
3) My unbuffed shadowfiend against a target dummy is returning ~7k+ mana.
4) Soul of the Dead is very good, and with how good Holy Concentration is, may now be a staple trinket. Even moreso than before.
1) As far as Hodir went, it was pretty steady, consistent raid damage. Basically, some people need to L2P and stand in meteors less.
2) GS heals you see are tanks dying.
3) Healing the first 2 minutes of Iron Council was NUTS until Daelo nerfed (in real-time) the spikes. It was a 60k spike ~ 15 second cooldown. Every single one was a cooldown, and it was a LOT of damage. Post-nerf, it was very doable. We were running 3 healers on that tank, and it was very doable with the 3 of us.
4) I can't use GHeal much anymore. :-( I'm used (on live) to having 3-5 minutes of up-time on full-out GHeal spam using IHC procs properly, and chaining IF and IHC. That, plus fiend and pot, and I can spam full out for a full Patchwerk. On Iron Council tonight, it was 2 minutes to OOM, using Tide and Fiend and pot. Kinda crazy how hard we got hit.
5) Innervate sucks now. It's really harsh how hard it hits us regen-wise.
Overall, I'm impressed. The damage so far has been spiky, but not uber-hard, so we WILL get downtime, and we CAN manage cooldowns. If I had my old spirit regen, I could easily regen 0-full several times over during Iron Council. There's a huge dead-time in the middle during the 2nd mob where I could have regenned a ton of mana. The nerf prevents me from doing that.
The only thing Blizzard needs to do is fix our bloody Hymns. I went to channel Hymn of Hope repeatedly tonight only to remember that it was removed.
[e] Stats on PTR atm:
~ 2600 raid-buffed spellpower, ~ 2700 with ToW
~ 29% raid-buffed crit
~ 415 raid-buffed haste
~ 23k mana with Distilled Wisdom flask
[e2] Oh, another note: the new Serendipity is HOT HOT HOT. 0.9 second GHeals? Especially on non-spiky bosses, it gives me a reason to Flash, Flash, <5 seconds regen break>, Flash, wait ... SPIKE->0.9 second GHeal. It's a great addition to a system that requires that we NOT chain-cast. Now if they'd just give us back the mana return portion as well. The combination of IHC, Serendipity, and Spirit change all in one patch feels like they hit us a lot harder than other healers. Nerfing the spirit alone would have gone a long way. Hopefully they get some testing in on the PTR and reverse at least one of our talent-tree-based regen abilities.
[e3] Here's the Iron Council attempts tonight. Had Distilled Wisdom up tonight, along with crit food, and was tank healing (as primary "nuke" healer) for the first part, then regen until the third part basically. Had a couple of stupid deaths: lag was brutal.
Last edited by constantius : 02/28/09 at 2:18 AM.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
Since I'm definitely not the math junkie of our community, any chance we could grab some new numbers on Distilled Wisdom flask vs. Mojo? (considering we do have the ~40% regen nerf via spirit/int)
[edit]
Yes I am aware that distilled wisdom benefits our top end mana pool which does help regeneration abilities (replenish, fiend etc. etc.)
Assume 1200 spirit, 1200 int without flask on. Then it's ~ 10.2 Mp5 I5SR (flat-out), not including benefits from size of mana pool, fiend, tide, crit, replenishment, etc.. Mana pool can be ballparked at 9 Mp5 (given a 10-minute enrage timer, which most of the Ulduar bosses have). Replenishment is 13.4 Mp5. That's already 32/38, without counting benefits of crit, fiend, tide, or flexibility in larger mana pool size.
Basically ... ya, it's still a better choice. However, much closer now that the int regen was nerfed.
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
[e2] Oh, another note: the new Serendipity is HOT HOT HOT. 0.9 second GHeals? Especially on non-spiky bosses, it gives me a reason to Flash, Flash, <5 seconds regen break>, Flash, wait ... SPIKE->0.9 second GHeal. It's a great addition to a system that requires that we NOT chain-cast. Now if they'd just give us back the mana return portion as well. The combination of IHC, Serendipity, and Spirit change all in one patch feels like they hit us a lot harder than other healers. Nerfing the spirit alone would have gone a long way. Hopefully they get some testing in on the PTR and reverse at least one of our talent-tree-based regen abilities.
I got to experience the 10 man Iron Council tonight for about an hour and Serendipity truly shined. Binding Heal and SoL procs from raid healing quickly and efficiently allowed me to have a super quick GH in the pocket at all times for big spikes on the tanks. I'd almost prefer they'd give us the old Serendipity back in the form of a glyph.
Ran with 6 healers
I personally was on raid healing and used Flask of Frost Wyrm/fish feast food buff, and I didn't see any sort of "hard" mana problem at all. I of course used Shadowfiend/pot, but I also dpsed during phase 3(when just the last small guy was left). I was missing some addons, and raid frames etc were a bit weird for my taste, and there was some lag, but overall it wasn't bad, mana didn't seem like an issue at all. I didn't really opt to use Prayer of Healing that much besides if the Valkyrion guy decided to rune of death(big green one)? and there was a group or two that got hit hard. I didn't use my Serendipity buff proactively. I usually just CoH/PoM/Flash heal people getting hit, and used a hasted Gheal on someone low or the tank.
Will probably take a bit of runs to get used to the new changes, but I don't see them as bad or anything on mana issues. This was probably an "easy" mode, and will be tuned harder, but even then, I can opt to use PoH more if raid damage is increased, and still wouldn't have too much trouble with mana.
I was a 14/57 Holy spec without SoL to test some things (I am almost certainly going to pick SoL up somehow). The point though is that I gained mana from Rapture as a Holy spec on Grobbulus. There has to be a bug related to this; either in how the WWS parsed it, or one of the other two following:
1) We had a full-time Disc priest in the raid (Cinic), and my casting a shield may have picked up on his Rapture talent.
2) (I find this slightly more likely) My dual spec's second option is a Disc variant that has Rapture. It may be that this bled over from my alternate spec.
So, has anybody else come across something like this; gaining mana via Rapture returns while deep Holy?
Well Rapture doesn't only return mana to the priest that casts it, it also "energizes" the target it is cast on, returning 2% mana or 8 rage or 16 energy or 32 runic power. That WWS says that each time you gained mana from Rapture you gained 407 mana, if that is 2% of your mana pool that means your total mana pool was about 20350, does that sound about right?
That makes more sense, honestly, although I can't make the numbers add up. Unbuffed on PTR I have 18.1k - as I don't remember raid buffs offhand, but looking at the raid composition I will assume the following: AI, MotW, BoK, and I was using a Distilled Wisdom flask with mixology bonus, so my raid mana should have been ~22k.
[e] I honestly don't remember if I had all of those buffs at the time, other than the flask. The raid itself was very uncoordinated, so while those buffs were all present, some may have been missing, in which case the numbers would make more sense.
[e2] If I only had the flask and AI, the numbers would fit, so that is more likely what happened unless somebody else duplicates this.
heh, that would be Me you are talking about in the WWS and such (the disc priest). I was looking at the WWS and am not sure tbh. I figured ya, I tossed a PWS on you, you recieved the rapture effect and got ur 2% mana back, but got curious so I started digging. I only got one heal on you for 3,641 which would NOT be a PWS glyph heal since obviously my max on that was 2171, so that was a flash heal. My glyph of PWS shows some overheal so I know it is not just discounting other heals I may have put on you and I was the WWS combat log so it wouldn't have missed mine. If I put a PWS up you woulda had a PWS glyph heal from me which you don't so you couldn't have recieved my rapture that way. I am at a loss for how you got that rapture tick. On looking closer I see Derag got a rapture tick and he didn't recieve a single heal from me the entire fight by check the who healed whom. This link shows who exactly recieved my PWS by deducing who I gave my PWS glyph heal to and correlating that it was 15, the exact same as my borrowed time gains. Wow Web Stats
The problem is, Wow Web Stats Is the list of people who recieved Rapture and there are like 5 more names on the list of people who got rapture then there is on the list of people who received PWS glyph heal. I am not sure where the discrepancy comes into play here. I thought I cast on a more diverse group then that (I usually try to PWS people running with the disease, granted most people spaced off and blew up in the raid on the pug so that might have had something to do with it).
My question is.... where are these random people who don't show a glyph of PWS heal getting rapture from?
Furthermore.... I noticed there were 9 procs on me for rapture (granted 2 of those could have been the rapture effect of casting on myself which is the number the log shows of PWS heals on self though I thought the effect on self was broken to begin with). This leaves 21 procs on the raid itself which doesn't mean much until you realize (correct me if my math is wrong) but 21 procs with a minimum of 12 seconds in between if cast at EXACTLY the 12 seconds mark would be a fight of minimum duration of 4 minutes 12 seconds if casting was spot on. Problem is... the fight lasted 3 minutes and 45 seconds.
Theory crafters some parts of this must be broken imo! Anyone else figure out where all the bugs in this lie? lol
p.s. Sorry for wall of text and bad formatting... was just coming to a lot of realizations at once in the wee hours. Edited for a but more readability =\
Overall, I'm impressed. The damage so far has been spiky, but not uber-hard, so we WILL get downtime, and we CAN manage cooldowns. If I had my old spirit regen, I could easily regen 0-full several times over during Iron Council. There's a huge dead-time in the middle during the 2nd mob where I could have regenned a ton of mana. The nerf prevents me from doing that.
Not wanting to whine, but I find it disappointing to say the least that Blizzard is removing the whole FSR-dance gameplay (the basis of the priest) only because there will be long downtime in fights from now on.
One thing I wonder : from what I gather about the new talents, the gameplay seems to be much closer to the one of a DPSer now. Is that just a false evaluation, or did you had this feeling when playing ?
Last thing : I see you're saying that int regen was nerfed. Are you talking about the side-effect of the nerf to the general regen formula, or was there a specific additionnal nerf to the effect of int on regen ?
If violence doesn't solve your problem...
... you simply haven't been violent enough !
02/27/09, 5:58 PM
