3.1 PTR - Page 51

viva · 04/16/09, 2:12 PM

I assumed Body and Soul was a PvP talent and skipped it. Would you talk further about it's usefullness in a PvE setting? We did XT 10-man last night and I honestly don't remember a mechanic in that fight that would have been aided by the sprint. How do you use it? It's really worth the two points?

Observer · 04/16/09, 2:16 PM

If you're going to spam PW:S, it seems as awesome as the Body and Soul effect probably is, Borrowed Time still adds 25% more throughput.

Borrowed Time also seems superior in conjunction with PoH, although that is more debatable depending on your expected balance as you miss most of the PoH throughput talents. Holy might be better for PoH if you're going to be casting a lot of Flash Heal, but if you're planning on doing a lot of PW:S with Soul Warding anyway, BT seems like it'll be more useful than Serendipity.

On a less constructive note, isn't it a kick in the unmentionables that one of Discipline's core spells has an awesome added effect... deep in the holy tree? Give us the B&S sprint, and give them the Renewed Hope raid buff. Sorry, I just had to get that out.

Kerima · 04/16/09, 3:01 PM

Originally Posted by constantius

I went back to Holy for Kologarn, and it reinforced my mantra that ZOMG PW:Sprint is AWESOME. It's so incredible for XT and Kolo, it's almost like it should get nerfed. But I didn't say that. It's so good, I'm seriously considering making a Disc-Raid-Heal spec that looks like:

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9767

Can you imagine? CoH, GCD-based PW:S, every PW:S grants Sprint, Serendipity for massive PoH throughput, Holy Concentration, picking up the Haste talent in Disc so you can drop some from your gear, and double-dipping on the spirit benefit. You lose all the things about Disc that make tank healing great (really improved PW:S, Penance, Borrowed Time, Grace, Divine Aegis), but looking at it as a holy build, you gain a TON, and all you lose is Guardian Spirit.
.

What about something more like

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...6&version=9767

I havent tested out your build yet, and our guild doesnt plan to do 25 man until Friday.

But is 5/5 Empowered Healing, Surge of Light, andLightwell worth losing the extra 15% mana and 6% spirit/Haste? Assuming your raid healing the extra 20% on Flash heal probably wont be enough, So i would go with this build more likely

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...6&version=9767

Im just a fan of SoL. Losing 2% haste/Spirit and 3 % mana is worth it imo

Xaphania · 04/16/09, 3:13 PM

This is the spec I'm using for holy right now:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...1&version=9767

After reading here, the idea of picking up Body and Soul seems very intriguing, but I would choose to drop 2 more points out of Spiritual Guidance to move into B&S. I think one point in Emp. Renew is important, so it can proc SoL and HC, and I want to keep Lightwell as well for the situational times when it shines. So my "Body and Soul" spec would look like this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...1&version=9767

Sinndir · 04/16/09, 3:17 PM

I think those of you who are going deep holy and ignoring guardian spirit should really reconsider that. There have already been countless times where I wish I had the glyph. The usefulness of having it as a safety net and then refresh to a 60 second cooldown is going to be unbelievable.

Xaphania · 04/16/09, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by Sinndir

I think those of you who are going deep holy and ignoring guardian spirit should really reconsider that. There have already been countless times where I wish I had the glyph. The usefulness of having it as a safety net and then refresh to a 60 second cooldown is going to be unbelievable.

In my case, I'm disc main spec, and will only be switching to holy for fights where it is really amazing (we've tried only the first 4 so far, and I was only holy for XT). And my main focus with being holy, is being able to spam a lot of raid heals without having to worry about mana. That's why I skipped a bunch of throughput talents; I want to make sure I'm in a good spot for regen before I start looking for bigger numbers.

Gilro · 04/16/09, 3:25 PM

I'm curious as to how many healers you guys have been running for most of Ulduar. We've been running with 7 and the damage output on Ignis seems pretty intense for two dedicated raid healers (myself and a shaman) with another priest helping out when possible. We picked up another shaman on our last pull before the servers went down and it seemed to be much smoother.

I was running a holy spec with 3/3 imp renew and 3/3 empowered renew but really didnt find myself using it all that often to heal flame jet damage opting instead to use hasted PoH for the majority of the damage
Im going to try this spec tonight Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft picking up test of faith and blessed resil

On a side note Divine Hymn is indeed amazing, often contributing 100k+ healing for a single attempt, I just wish it was a bit shorter cooldown (maybe affected by divine providence ala PRoM?)

Coztomba · 04/16/09, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Sinndir

I think those of you who are going deep holy and ignoring guardian spirit should really reconsider that. There have already been countless times where I wish I had the glyph. The usefulness of having it as a safety net and then refresh to a 60 second cooldown is going to be unbelievable.

I second really wanting that Guardian Spirit glyph already. I find myself asking what glyph I'm going to drop for it. Initially I thought PoH but my PoH usage really has gone through the roof. I'm starting to think I can lose CoH. Unless everyone is stacked up, casters are generally spread out more so I wonder how often I really make use of the extra target, and melee are generally all in the one group and very PoH friendly now.

And I know Body and Soul is the new toy and high on the fun factor, but I think 3/3 Test of Faith really shines in Ulduar. It seems like I heal people below 50% a lot. And combined with PoH + Glyph it's really great for those encounters where the whole raid takes damage. I'm surprised I see so many people without it. Half of the healing over 50% is just casual top ups tbh, targets below 50%, that I'm not going to overheal is where I want extra throughput.

tedv · 04/16/09, 4:47 PM

I think Flash heal is the correct glyph to cut. Honestly, over half of my flash heal casts are Surge of Light procs, so the glyph doesn't help that much. There are only so many healing spells you can cast, and keeping both Mending and Circle of Healing on cooldown seems like status quo for any situation with raid damage. If there's raid damage being tossed around, we have more than enough AoE healing options that Flash Heal isn't remotely a good choice. If there isn't sufficient raid damage, Greater Heal is a better choice. Unless Greater Heal would be significant overhealing on the target that's taking damage. In which case the healing demands are really light, so you can leave the topping off to druids and paladins.

Sinndir · 04/16/09, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by Coztomba

I second really wanting that Guardian Spirit glyph already. I find myself asking what glyph I'm going to drop for it. Initially I thought PoH but my PoH usage really has gone through the roof. I'm starting to think I can lose CoH. Unless everyone is stacked up, casters are generally spread out more so I wonder how often I really make use of the extra target, and melee are generally all in the one group and very PoH friendly now.

And I know Body and Soul is the new toy and high on the fun factor, but I think 3/3 Test of Faith really shines in Ulduar. It seems like I heal people below 50% a lot. And combined with PoH + Glyph it's really great for those encounters where the whole raid takes damage. I'm surprised I see so many people without it. Half of the healing over 50% is just casual top ups tbh, targets below 50%, that I'm not going to overheal is where I want extra throughput.

As for dropping a glyph just go through your WWS/WMO reports if you use them.

I am looking at Flash Heal and CoH being ~20% each of my healing so taking glyphs away from them is just not feasible. After that PoH and PoM do 15-20% each depending on the encounter and Binding does ~5-10% depending on the encounter. Even on PoH heavy fights (Kologarn and XT-002) the glyph of PoH was only doing 2% of my overall healing, thus it is going to get dropped.

constantius · 04/16/09, 6:13 PM

That's why I've never actually used PoH Glyph. It sucks on paper, and it sucks on implementation. Default Glyphs for 3.0.8 were Renew, FH, and CoH, and they're GS, FH, and CoH for 3.1. PoH sucks, and PW:S just isn't strong enough to justify using.

For Disc, it's obviously different, and my preference lies with Penance, FH, and either Renew (if you actually use it) or PW:S.

Rezzy · 04/16/09, 7:15 PM

We did about 15 attempts on deconstructor (we were trying the hopeless stack up strat - dont try it it's a waste of time).

My PoH glyph did about 75k effective healing and 25kish overhealing.
It's about 6k extra healing each attempt - I don't think it justifies using it when better options exist.

I'm using it only because there are no glyphs of GS yet on the AH nor in trade

Ivraviel · 04/16/09, 8:21 PM

These are the three best specs, if you have questions about them just ask. Somethings in them seem a bit off but in raids it is useful. All 3 specs are raiding specs.

Holy Spec:
The World of Warcraft Armory

Simple and easy spec. This is not a greater healing spec, so your target shouldnt drop below 50% health. Bubble+pray of mending+renew+flash heals. If you do have a druid main tank then yes you want a greater healing spec, but thats it. If this is the case I can make one for you. When I heal a raid I dont put greater heals on my bar because its worthless if an off healer thinks you need help and heals your target and you just waste your heal if you dont see their cast in time. And your tank will burn his Oh shit moves at the wrong times which is a problem.

Disc Spec:
The World of Warcraft Armory

I left 2 points for you to decide what to use them for. Depending on the boss that your group has trouble with or so forth. The bubble dealing dmg back at target can help the tank keep the aggro by a little bit more depending on if you spam bubble+pray of mending. And then there is the reduce cd of the oh shit moves, this is amazing if you know how to use the moves, but there are people that dont so this would be worthless for them. And Oh shit moves may not be needed if your tank is the right class.

Shadow Spec:
The World of Warcraft Armory

And on the Shadow spec I put in extra lowering threat because I always pull in my raids, and in aoeing parts of raids the tank cant always pick up the aggro so some dps may die, and why let that be you. And another nice thing about putting this in is so you dont have to click fade every time its off cd and still have to hold back on dps in boss fights.

Tweaksys · 04/16/09, 8:31 PM

I tend to disagree with imp renew over divine fury. I ran without divine fury on PTR then got it back for live. I like having faster cast damage for when we want extra DPS and I still Gheal every so often (especially when I have inner focus up for the big DA stack). Renew is nice but it just does not add what you are losing from the multifaceted divine fury in my opinion. I raid Disc by the way.

Ivraviel · 04/16/09, 9:33 PM

Just use Mind blast and dots (and maybe smite when mb is on cd), I mean honestly smite and holy fire suck ass. Why bother using holy dmg when you are holy spec. renews arent like top healing stuff but to keep the group alive dont flash heal dps just throw renews on them. And If you are at the place where dps is needed more then mana/heals renews waste less time then Greater heals, like imagen 4 renews on a main tank (even tho thats not going to happen).