[ShadowPriest] Dot critting logic and 3.1 - Page 2

vilemike · 03/28/09, 5:52 AM

Originally Posted by ryugen

Checked everything now. [Inner Focus] does not stay with SW:P when the dot gets refreshed(wonder if it works at all). To get the values, I refreshed the effect but did not let Mind Flay dmg.

[Glyph of Shadow]: The effect will not be trigger by DoT crits. Simply DoT a target and check it. This wouldn't seem like a big problem, but read on and you'll see that it indeed is.

All your spells share a globally Critchance. That means if your DoT just critted, your [Mind Blast] or [SW

] will likely not crit. Since DoT's and [Mind Flay] hit multiple times in the time you can cast [Mind Blast] and [SW

], the chance to crit with them is way lower than before the patch.
This will not only effect the [Glyph of Shadow] in it's current state, but also [Improved Spirit Tap] in a very bad way.
Both seem pretty useless to me at this time.

IIRC, crits are rolled on a per cast basis, so no matter how often you crit, you always have the same chance of scoring a crit with your next cast.

Bowchikabow · 03/28/09, 6:06 AM

IIRC, crits are rolled on a per cast basis, so no matter how often you crit, you always have the same chance of scoring a crit with your next cast.

per cast, yes. Each time you cast a spell that individual spell rolls on chance to critical.

Ryugen: DoT's already on targets have their own critical rolls, your ability to crit with MB is NOT affected by whether or not SW:P, DP, or VT is going to crit in that time.

My original question was how ever whether it is either a bug, bad luck, or working as intended that I have so far not seen any combination of DoT's on target simultaneously critical. during testing I found that so long as there is atleast a 1sec difference between ticks that multiple crits can happen ( during my testing I had VT, SW:P then VT again crit back to back).. if this is working as intended then this may have a serious affect on how we time our spells.

Tifi · 03/28/09, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by syndori

I do believe that you can cast a Shadow Word: Pain on a training dummy, and exit combat while the DOT is still ticking. This means you can strip naked, cast it, exit combat, put your gear back (use outfitter or something similar to do it quickly), and refresh it with a Mind Flay before it goes away.

By adding a full 20+% crit through gear, you should be able to more easily test if crit changes mid-fight affect your DOT.

I just tested it on the PTR, build 9733 from March, 24. Normal crit w/ equip is 19.81%+6%, naked crit is 2.29%+6%. I stripped naked, applied SW:P on two dummies, put the equip back on, and kept refreshing the DoTs. My crit rate according to Recount was 5.6% in 198 ticks. So it's highly unlikely that refreshing w/ MF applied the current crit value.

ryugen · 03/28/09, 7:52 PM

So Critchance will not get renewed, but refreshed. That'd actually mean Inner Focus still doesnt work with SW:P. at a ~17% crit chance out of 200 ticks ~16,8% critted. A 25% increase should definetly been noticeable.

Mokhtar · 03/30/09, 5:59 AM

Originally Posted by Tifi

I just tested it on the PTR, build 9733 from March, 24. Normal crit w/ equip is 19.81%+6%, naked crit is 2.29%+6%. I stripped naked, applied SW:P on two dummies, put the equip back on, and kept refreshing the DoTs. My crit rate according to Recount was 5.6% in 198 ticks. So it's highly unlikely that refreshing w/ MF applied the current crit value.

Thanks for testing this Tifi, it confirms my own conclusions. ShadowGreenLight is here to stay...

Mearis · 03/30/09, 8:07 AM

Ugh, this means we are forced to use destruction potions when casting SW: P if we want to maximise our damage, since the crit portion rolls over.

Elimbras · 03/30/09, 9:30 AM

I can see SP rolling for highest crit possible (set of) weapon, and swapping just for the cast of SW:P.

Guess Blizzard will correct it one time or another, as they did for spellpower.

tedv · 03/30/09, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Elimbras

I can see SP rolling for highest crit possible (set of) weapon, and swapping just for the cast of SW:P.

Guess Blizzard will correct it one time or another, as they did for spellpower.

Except that only works against target dummies. If you cast a spell against a boss, you are locked in combat. I think the refresh behavior on shadow word: pain is an artifact of how they coded the spell to not lose DoT ticks. At any rate, the point is that we still need to watch for crit buffs before casting pain, as well as the shadow weaving stack. Kind of annoying but not the worst thing in the world.

I suppose if we reported this as a PTR bug of the exploit variety, Blizzard might be more likely to fix it. Is there any way to get an abnormally high crit rating due to the magic of procs?

• Vykromond · 03/30/09, 10:16 AM

He said "weapon." You can switch weapons in combat.

windcape · 03/30/09, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Mearis

Ugh, this means we are forced to use destruction potions when casting SW: P if we want to maximise our damage, since the crit portion rolls over.

Is this also truth for today?

I've seen a lot of opinions about it, but no solid proof. And since DPS in the 4800+ class varies a lot with raid buffs, I've not been able to test it seriously in a raid environment.

And if it is working that way, would it still be a higher benefit then if we compared to say, using it during Bloodlust with the extra Mind Flays benefiting from the effect of it?

Mearis · 03/30/09, 10:54 AM

I am pretty sure potions roll over, I can try to do some tests by the dummies later on. I haven't run the math but I am pretty sure that the increase in SW: P damage rolling over the entire fight is better than the marginal increase you get in the potion value you get if you use it under heroism, since at most you are looking at a 30% increase in the benefit of the potion assuming that 30% haste improved our damage by 30%.

zaxxs · 03/30/09, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Mearis

I am pretty sure potions roll over, I can try to do some tests by the dummies later on. I haven't run the math but I am pretty sure that the increase in SW: P damage rolling over the entire fight is better than the marginal increase you get in the potion value you get if you use it under heroism, since at most you are looking at a 30% increase in the benefit of the potion assuming that 30% haste improved our damage by 30%.

Thankfully we dont have to make that choice.

Simply use a pot on the countdown and in that 10-12 sec of poted combat time at the start of the fight build up stacks and get your SWP applied.

Cyberspace · 03/30/09, 7:02 PM

Yup. Just use two pots per fight. One right before the pull, and another during BL.

Endus · 03/31/09, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Cyberspace

Yup. Just use two pots per fight. One right before the pull, and another during BL.

Except the current theorycraft regarding BL/Heroism is to pop it as early as possible. There is no (or at least a vanishingly tiny) advantage to popping it later in the fight, unless there's a specific phase like an Enrage you're trying to burn through ASAP. If you're just looking at maximizing the raid DPS, your shaman should be casting it about 20-30 seconds into the fight, to give everyone time to settle in and pop trinkets.

jdgaynor · 03/31/09, 5:15 PM

Could you clarify that? I thought that the prevailing theorycraft was to pop Bloodlust so that you:

1.) Use the entire duration
2.) Have the duration cover as much of sub 35% as possible.

I thought that this was because other classes like Mages, and Warriors, do extra damage when a boss is below 35%. Is that mistaken?