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07/01/09, 7:06 PM
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#616
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Piston Honda
Draenei Priest
Frostmourne
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Originally Posted by Liths
Very odd, yet another 4 piece bonus which seem great for disc and rather poor for holy. It's better than t8 bonus I suppose, I certanly use renew more than pw:s as holy, but it doesn't get me very excited.
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Unfortunately, while Disc and Holy share a Tier set this is probably unavoidable. It would be awkward to come up with set bonuses which are roughly equivalent for both Holy and Disc, simply because the spell usage is so different. You'd end up with abominations like the Feral Druid set bonuses; things like "Your Penance spell gains +5% crit and your Circle of Healing spell has it's cooldown reduced by 1 second".
T8 and T9 both have one solid and one meh set bonus for each spec. That's not too bad, and of course Holy has the option of going 2-piece of each.
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07/01/09, 7:42 PM
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#617
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Kashir
That's not too bad, and of course Holy has the option of going 2-piece of each.
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Exactly, +10% crit and +20% healing for PoM compliment each other fantastically.
I find PoM to consistently be 15-25% of my healing and a straight up 20% of that is going to be great. Could even be reason to put on two piece tier 7 (ya?) more often, if PoH is not abundantly needed.
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07/02/09, 4:02 AM
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#618
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Glass Joe
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Had some strange things happening last night in Ulduar25. While in my Holy spec for Ignis, I was doing my usual of using CoH while airborne with the flame jets usually using myself as the target...except I was not receiving any healing from the CoH but others were, in fact it was doing some _very_ low numbers generally. I checked that I was using the latest rank (7) of CoH, even re-dragged it to the toolbar to ensure this was the case. However, this was not consistent, I didn't get a proper chance to test it as we were kinda rolling our way through, but on Freya I spent some time watching what was happening.
Target someone, cast CoH and the target would receive no healing but CoH hit 5 targets (I am glyphed with CoH tho) and there was easily 10+ people in range, I keep the same target, casted nothing else in between and waited for CoH to come off cd, tapped CoH again and it hit 6 targets and healed the target this time. I only tested this twice (which I know is barely a test)...I'm hoping one or two folks were recording their combatlogs so i'll post 'em. This didn't always happen tho - sometimes the targetted person would receive the heal from CoH fine...i'm guesstimating a 50% work / didn't work rate.
I've only noticed this issue from yesterday so wanted to see if anyone else was having similar issues.
Last edited by Cm1 : 07/02/09 at 4:03 AM.
Reason: Typos.
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07/02/09, 4:10 AM
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#619
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Glass Joe
Undead Priest
Destromath (EU)
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Originally Posted by Cm1
Had some strange things happening last night in Ulduar25. While in my Holy spec for Ignis, I was doing my usual of using CoH while airborne with the flame jets usually using myself as the target...except I was not receiving any healing from the CoH but others were, in fact it was doing some _very_ low numbers generally. I checked that I was using the latest rank (7) of CoH, even re-dragged it to the toolbar to ensure this was the case. However, this was not consistent, I didn't get a proper chance to test it as we were kinda rolling our way through, but on Freya I spent some time watching what was happening.
Target someone, cast CoH and the target would receive no healing but CoH hit 5 targets (I am glyphed with CoH tho) and there was easily 10+ people in range, I keep the same target, casted nothing else in between and waited for CoH to come off cd, tapped CoH again and it hit 6 targets and healed the target this time. I only tested this twice (which I know is barely a test)...I'm hoping one or two folks were recording their combatlogs so i'll post 'em. This didn't always happen tho - sometimes the targetted person would receive the heal from CoH fine...i'm guesstimating a 50% work / didn't work rate.
I've only noticed this issue from yesterday so wanted to see if anyone else was having similar issues.
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Read the tooltip carefully. CoH does not necessarily hit the target you cast on.
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07/02/09, 4:11 AM
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#620
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Sinndir
Exactly, +10% crit and +20% healing for PoM compliment each other fantastically.
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T8 2pc is +10% crit to PoH
T9 2pc is +20% healing to PoM
Just wanted to clarify that they're not both PoM.
Originally Posted by Bossi
Read the tooltip carefully. CoH does not necessarily hit the target you cast on.
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This doesn't explain why it's only hitting 5 targets when there are a lot more in range (and are not on full HP). I have a feeling that there is an issue with the mechanic for the healing on the target not working correctly, hence the references to the target.
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07/02/09, 11:39 AM
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#621
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Piston Honda
Human Priest
Emerald Dream (EU)
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Originally Posted by Kashir
Unfortunately, while Disc and Holy share a Tier set this is probably unavoidable. It would be awkward to come up with set bonuses which are roughly equivalent for both Holy and Disc, simply because the spell usage is so different. You'd end up with abominations like the Feral Druid set bonuses; things like "Your Penance spell gains +5% crit and your Circle of Healing spell has it's cooldown reduced by 1 second".
T8 and T9 both have one solid and one meh set bonus for each spec. That's not too bad, and of course Holy has the option of going 2-piece of each.
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Which bonus is "meh" for disc priests? While PoH is a smaller % of my total healing as disc usually, you gain much more from 10% crit as disc than holy. PoM won't heal for quite as much as disc, but as both spec I make sure that I have a charge bouncing around pretty much permanently. I just don't see which set bonus werent good for disc, I'm very happy with all of them at least.
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07/02/09, 11:54 AM
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#622
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Priest
Stormrage
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Originally Posted by Cm1
This doesn't explain why it's only hitting 5 targets when there are a lot more in range (and are not on full HP). I have a feeling that there is an issue with the mechanic for the healing on the target not working correctly, hence the references to the target.
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Depending on what mod you're using to show the number of targets to hit, it might be a bug or issue there rather than the actual game mechanics.
Some mods, for instance, show heals on yourself as incoming but not outgoing, which means that you would see [5 hits] on one side and then some incoming healing on the other side. It's not really a bug, it's just the way it's set up to show healing. If there's 10+ people in range all needing healing, there's a reasonable chance that you're one of them. And there's a reasonable chance that if you get hit with the first one, you won't get hit with the second one 6 seconds later, hence the 5 and then 6 targets. That would definitely be my guess as to what was happening.
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07/02/09, 6:41 PM
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#623
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Kashir
T8 and T9 both have one solid and one meh set bonus for each spec. That's not too bad, and of course Holy has the option of going 2-piece of each.
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The only issue with that idea is the fact that the third tier 9 set is ilevel 258, meaning those two pieces would be missing 32 ilevels of stats, which is starting to get substantial (larger than the gap from ilevel 200 10 man Naxx gear to ilevel 226 of t7 hard modes and normal 25 man Ulduar armors). I'd have to see the stat loss involved and the frequency that PoH is being cast in t9 content to make the call as to whether or not that set up is worth it for holy. Once you have access to the ilevel 245 gear midtier, that's still a 19 ilevel difference, which is still more than the 10 man Naxx to 25 man Naxx jump (by six ilevels, but still). Again, we'll have to see the gear before making further judgments, but the pure, brute stat loss is something to keep in mind for those two pieces.
Additionally, with the "hotfix" to rapid burst and hand pulse, making them no longer cause spell pushback, does that possibly open up two points in builds? Or is there another encounter other than Mimiron that makes Healing Focus as required? Auriaya can be irritating with it, but it's mostly in the form of flat counterspelling from the guardian. I haven't done Algalon yet, so that encounter is a mystery to me, at least in terms of whether or not the raid damage causes pushback. I can't think of another encounter offhand that causes spell pushback, unless you're tanking by accident. Freya+3? I cleared it recently in 10 man, and I can't remember if Sunbeams cause pushback, or if it is worth keeping for when the little flower adds beat on you.
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07/02/09, 7:47 PM
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#624
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Lhyssa
Additionally, with the "hotfix" to rapid burst and hand pulse, making them no longer cause spell pushback, does that possibly open up two points in builds? Or is there another encounter other than Mimiron that makes Healing Focus as required? Auriaya can be irritating with it, but it's mostly in the form of flat counterspelling from the guardian. I haven't done Algalon yet, so that encounter is a mystery to me, at least in terms of whether or not the raid damage causes pushback. I can't think of another encounter offhand that causes spell pushback, unless you're tanking by accident. Freya+3? I cleared it recently in 10 man, and I can't remember if Sunbeams cause pushback, or if it is worth keeping for when the little flower adds beat on you.
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Where would you put those two points? I'm just curious because the 20 talent points used to get to the 5th tier already are pretty lame. My first 5, always in Holy Spec. My second 5, always in Spell Warding. My next four are always in inspiration and desperate prayer. That leaves with one point to get to the 4th tier (I put in healing focus since I so rarely renew). 16th and 17th talent points go into holy reach and then I'm left with 3 talent points to get to the 5th tier. So I finish out healing focus (so combining with concentration aura it provides 100% pushback resistance), and then toss 2 points into improved renew.
I really just don't see any better places to move those two points.
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07/07/09, 2:28 PM
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#625
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Von Kaiser
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"I really just don't see any better places to move those two points. "
If it turns out that pushback becomes a non-issue, then why would you want two points in a useless skill? Put one extra point in improved renew, even if you rarely cast it that point would have some benefit, and drop the other in divine fury. I never cast greater heal, but I do occasionly use smite (XT's heart, trash) so divine fury might have marginal benefit.
I’ve been curious as to how valuable the points in healing focus are currently. I only have a single point in the skill as I use renew a lot. A side effect of this is that most of my spells are instacast (renew, CoH, ProM, SoL procs), the only spell with a cast time that I routinely use is PoH, and it is almost always hasted by a triple serendipity stack.
I understand that this is not the case for some (most?) holy priests, just curious if there is a tracking tool for pushback.
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07/08/09, 2:36 PM
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#626
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Kilborne
"I really just don't see any better places to move those two points. "
If it turns out that pushback becomes a non-issue, then why would you want two points in a useless skill? Put one extra point in improved renew, even if you rarely cast it that point would have some benefit, and drop the other in divine fury. I never cast greater heal, but I do occasionly use smite (XT's heart, trash) so divine fury might have marginal benefit.
I’ve been curious as to how valuable the points in healing focus are currently. I only have a single point in the skill as I use renew a lot. A side effect of this is that most of my spells are instacast (renew, CoH, ProM, SoL procs), the only spell with a cast time that I routinely use is PoH, and it is almost always hasted by a triple serendipity stack.
I understand that this is not the case for some (most?) holy priests, just curious if there is a tracking tool for pushback.
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Kilborne, I don't know about you but usually when I cast a serendipity hasted PoH, it is followed by a non-hasted one as well, if not a third.
Now for pushback. Concentration aura helps, but does not make the problem go away. With two points into healing focus and concentration aura you will not get pushback at all. And if the course of an instance I get pushed back once and someone dies because of it, I would rather have those points in healing focus rather than renew.
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07/08/09, 9:28 PM
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#627
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Von Kaiser
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Obviously if you are getting pushback on a regular basis then the talent is worthwhile. I just don't seem to be getting any noticeable pushback on the vast majority of fights. I'm still working on normal Ulduar in both 10 man and 25 man, no hard modes yet. Since several of the pushback mechanics that I am aware of seem to have been nerfed recently, I'm just wondering about the overall value of healing focus.
My guild runs fairly druid and priest heavy, so I rarely ever cast two PoH's in a row, and my personal overall spell usage favors instant cast spells heavily. This would indicate that healing focus would be less useful to me than the average priest. Even so I would be interested in how much pushback I experience over the course of an instance. I think this information is vital in evaluating the value of those points. Even though those initial tiers in holy are somewhat limited choice wise, there are still some decisions to be made, especially for priests who are fond of renew.
"And if the course of an instance I get pushed back once and someone dies because of it, I would rather have those points in healing focus rather than renew."
I absolutely agree (although for me I would steal the additional healing focus point from spell warding), but that is kind of my point. It is hard to compare 5% of a renew or 2% of spell damage reduction against an unknown amount of pushback. Those things would be difficult to compare even knowing the values, but without that knowledge you are back to "I like" or "I prefer". I think that if I was experiencing 1+ second of pushback per minute my likes and preferences would be different then if I am having 1 second of pushback over the course of a raid night. So I’m interested in any way that the amount of pushback can be objectively measured.
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07/09/09, 6:24 AM
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#628
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Don Flamenco
Dwarf Priest
Eitrigg (EU)
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One place where I enjoy healing focus is Freya (at least normal for me), when there is all the little adds spawning.
At some point, I've some adds on me.
Thorim is sometimes the same for the little adds in the arena, but there, I use mostly instant casts.
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07/10/09, 10:18 AM
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#629
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Von Kaiser
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I modified my log parser to keep track of how many spell pushbacks I got through an ulduar 10 run (we didn't kill Ignis because we were bored and tired at the end). Since this isn't entered into the log I faked by counting the number of hits that cause pushback that came in between SPELL_CAST_START's and SPELL_HEAL's.
XT-002 HM - 8 (getting punched by pummelers before the tank picked them up after dpsing down the heart)
Kologarn - 1
Hodir HM - 1
Thorim HM - 8
Freya +3 - 20
General Vezax HM - 1 (because our stupid rogue couldn't kick his searing flames when the warrior broke off to tank Animus)
Yogg-Saron +2 - 41 (over multiple attempts, including being beat on by insane friends, so not very informative)
Razorscale - 4
Other bosses - none
Just on a raw count, that gives about 42 seconds of pushback over 2175 seconds of casting for the entire raid, making pushback about a 1.9% reduction in my casting speed. But if we ignore the Yogg-Saron fights because they contain a lot of confusing data (pushback doesn't really matter when it is caused by your only tank for phase 3 beating on you), then it's 21 seconds of pushback over about 1800 seconds of casting, for about a 1.1% reduction in casting speed.
I've always been one to take the talent, maybe out of a loyalty to the past or just feeling like there is nothing else to take, but counting up the number of times I actually get pushed back makes me feel like I might be better off putting those points in Spell Warding. The only fight that Healing Focus seems better for is Freya, but I don't think we've wiped to that in weeks anyway.
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An idiot is someone who would rather be treated like an idiot than called an idiot
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07/10/09, 12:50 PM
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#630
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Great Tiger
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Well you should take the points from divine fury first, then put them into spell warding. Also that is 10-man, where you must not have been running concentration aura. Because 2 points of healing focus, combined with concentration aura (especially improved) should net zero interrupts/pushbacks.
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