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Old 09/23/09, 5:42 AM   #811
Kyril
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Ner'zhul
There are many better options. The heal proc would need to be modified by sp and proc very frequently to make up the difference.

Just as an example, [Solace of the Defeated] + [Sif's Remembrance] is 28 more passive sp and over 2x the mana regen than Onyxia's 25m set.

Last edited by Kyril : 09/23/09 at 5:57 AM.

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Old 09/23/09, 11:40 AM   #812
goliath0
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
The Venture Co (EU)
I still don't get why people stack Int like mad (and not SP and/or Haste for instance). Paladin envy?

I've also noticed most priests switched to Renew mode, even though the conclusion (usability,procs,glyph) wasn't in favour of the spell as opposed to say Flash Heal.

p.s. anyone thought about going thoroughput crazy? (BR+ToF+EH, -HP -IF 1/3ER)

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Old 09/23/09, 1:09 PM   #813
tedv
Observation: I am awesome
 
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Goblin Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by goliath0 View Post
I still don't get why people stack Int like mad (and not SP and/or Haste for instance). Paladin envy?

I've also noticed most priests switched to Renew mode, even though the conclusion (usability,procs,glyph) wasn't in favour of the spell as opposed to say Flash Heal.

p.s. anyone thought about going thoroughput crazy? (BR+ToF+EH, -HP -IF 1/3ER)
Renew is better than flash heal if the raid is taking continuous damage or if you have to move a lot. A typical flash heal is around 6k, so you only need 3 renew ticks for the two spells to break even and 4 for renew to be better. Being able to heal while moving is extremely important on a number of fights.

Can you clarify your random string of abbreviations, or better yet just link to the build you had in mind? I've been trying a full throughput focused holy spec largely because mana feels like a non-issue right now. I have yet to see how it holds up on longer fights though.

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Old 09/23/09, 1:38 PM   #814
RootBreaker
Piston Honda
 
Troll Priest
 
Detheroc
Originally Posted by tedv View Post
Can you clarify your random string of abbreviations, or better yet just link to the build you had in mind? I've been trying a full throughput focused holy spec largely because mana feels like a non-issue right now. I have yet to see how it holds up on longer fights though.
Originally Posted by goliath0
p.s. anyone thought about going thoroughput crazy? (BR+ToF+EH, -HP -IF 1/3ER)
Blessed Resilience + Test of Faith + Empowered Healing, -Healing Prayers, -Inner Focus, 1/3 Empowered Renew

I imagine it looks something like this

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Old 09/23/09, 2:42 PM   #815
goliath0
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
The Venture Co (EU)
More or less: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...HVdzbUe,,10482

Question remains - why Int stacking than SP/Haste?

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Old 09/23/09, 5:02 PM   #816
tedv
Observation: I am awesome
 
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Goblin Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by goliath0 View Post
More or less: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...HVdzbUe,,10482

Question remains - why Int stacking than SP/Haste?
I don't know of any priest that's doing this. Pretty much everyone has infinite mana these days, if they have enough ToC loot. We're all stacking spell power and haste.

That spec seems very legitimate. I use renew a lot and need Body and Soul, so I moved the 5 points out of Empowered Healing for Empowered Renew and B&S. I threw the last point in Lightwell over Inner Focus to see if it's still worthwhile, but my hunch is that it still sucks. Empowered Healing seems like a reasonable place to spend talent points though if you rely on Surge of Light a lot like I do.

Last edited by tedv : 09/23/09 at 5:21 PM.

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Old 09/23/09, 7:26 PM   #817
Starfire
Honorary Toastr
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by constantius View Post
They're nowhere near the level of two dedicated healer trinkets, unless you can somehow use the Health/5. Your example of [Sif's Remembrance] + [Eye of the Broodmother] has 235 spellpower, 87 crit rating, and ~ 65 Mp5. Much, much superior to the new Onyxia options.
Worth mentioning the ilvl 245 trinkets pair up to: 250 spellpower, 96 mp5, 576 hp5 (lol? i guess it's useful on Anub'arak...) and of course Cauterizing Heal ~ 2500 (which I think is useless, but anyways).

Originally Posted by arison View Post
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

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Old 09/23/09, 8:13 PM   #818
goliath0
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by tedv View Post
I don't know of any priest that's doing this. Pretty much everyone has infinite mana these days, if they have enough ToC loot. We're all stacking spell power and haste.
Many of the top priests I've armoried were full of Intellect gems and usually Intellect trinkets, rocking up to 30k mana (depending on spec ofc).

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Old 09/23/09, 8:37 PM   #819
Starfire
Honorary Toastr
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by goliath0 View Post
Many of the top priests I've armoried were full of Intellect gems and usually Intellect trinkets, rocking up to 30k mana (depending on spec ofc).
I used Intellect in Ulduar, but with ToC-25 gear, I have so much more Intellect/Spirit, I am going Spellpower now. It could be the priests you are armorying haven't updated their gems/gear yet. ilvl 245 and 258 are such huge gains in stats. It's almost insanity.

Originally Posted by arison View Post
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

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Old 09/23/09, 9:29 PM   #820
Pethia
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Ravencrest (EU)
I'm in a guild atm on Twins 25 HC and i'm still ooming myself trying to keep up with the crazy spaming you have to do on that fight, even with int stacking gems and 245/258 ToC loot. This fights healing is pretty close to the IC hard mode spamming of phase 3 we saw in ulduar.

However the earlier heroic modes and more so the 10 man are not very mana intense as the fight mechanics seem not to be too punishing and allow for breaks.

So i wondered if it would be viable stacking Int up if you are going to be doing the higher end 25 man heroics just out of personal observation, but maybe going for SP/haste for 10 man / 25 man normal and early heroics.

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Old 09/24/09, 12:12 AM   #821
constantius
Soda Popinski
 
Pandaren Priest
 
Windrunner
You should not be spamming heavily on Twin Valkyrs heroic. Aside from the tanks, the damage is incredibly predictable and easily healed with HoTs and the occasional Chain Heal.

If your raid is taking much heavier damage than this, then you need to consider a strat change.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

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Old 09/24/09, 1:24 AM   #822
Jyll
spirit shell-shocked
 
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Blood Elf Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by goliath0 View Post
I still don't get why people stack Int like mad (and not SP and/or Haste for instance). Paladin envy?

I've also noticed most priests switched to Renew mode, even though the conclusion (usability,procs,glyph) wasn't in favour of the spell as opposed to say Flash Heal.

p.s. anyone thought about going thoroughput crazy? (BR+ToF+EH, -HP -IF 1/3ER)
I certainly wouldn't recommend stacking int over spellpower, but gemming for int over haste or crit in a yellow socket is a simple and effective way for those of us who are switching between the two healing specs to gem tier pieces, etc. for both Holy and Discipline.

For disc, because the disc soft cap for haste is so low, haste gems aren't desirable. For holy, I've been able to make up the difference in haste between T8 and T9 with offset items, so again, no need for haste gems. Now that I've picked up a decent amount of ToC gear, my raid-buffed crit is already nearing the point of diminishing returns as Holy and I'm already past that point in my disc spec, so there's really no need to gem for crit either. All this considered, intellect isn't really such an unattractive stat for a yellow socket, and the extra mana has come in handy on progression nights.

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Old 09/24/09, 3:18 AM   #823
meddle
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Priest
 
Kilrogg
Originally Posted by goliath0 View Post
I've also noticed most priests switched to Renew mode, even though the conclusion (usability,procs,glyph) wasn't in favour of the spell as opposed to say Flash Heal.
Renew is probably better than you think it is. From a couple pages back:

Originally Posted by constantius View Post

Rejuv

18% base mana for 1690 healing (15 sec)
+4% +15% +10% +5% healing and +20% of spellpower and -20% mana cost and -20% GCD and +initial instant heal (set bonus)

Renew

17% base mana for 1400 healing (15 sec)
+15% +10% +5% healing and +15% of spellpower and +initial instant heal
Rejuvenation is the clear winner here obviously, but we aren't druids, HoTs are not our "niche." But I think you'll see that there is comparable throughput between Renew and Rejuv, granted you invest in it and mana efficiency is not an issue for you. Renew has consistently been in my top three healing spells, it's a very viable healing tool.

I still use Flash Heal quite a bit on some fights (noticed I was using it a lot tonight on Heroic Jord Jaraxxus.25 while spot healing and healing Incinerate Flesh) but in general it's more my go-to for a reactive heal or a heal that's needed *now*. I usually toss up Renew on someone who will be taking predictable damage. That sounds sort of elementary but I do find they fulfill two different niches for me. Regardless, I don't think anyone glyphs for Flash Heal in T9 as mana isn't really an issue anymore in ToC gear, so that can't really be used to argue for using it vs. Renew. Surge of Light is a good argument, however.

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Old 09/24/09, 3:25 AM   #824
Starfire
Honorary Toastr
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Dragonblight
Well, you explicitly said ToC. Renew was never bad in Ulduar (it was terrible in Naxxramas for various reasons); however some situations in ToC just makes it shine.

It's good for Burning Bile, Legion Flames, Surge of Light/Dark and/our Touch of Light/Dark, and fairly good for Penetrating Cold. A periodic heal is awesome for periodic damage. (This however didn't make sense for Napalm, since Napalm overwhelmed poor Renew -- and the person would die without assistance from other heals).

Originally Posted by arison View Post
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

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Old 09/24/09, 9:23 AM   #825
goliath0
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Even if you consider not needing much haste as Disc, therefore stacking Int for dual spec, it still doesn't change the fact that Spell Power would be better in general.

But some of those priests had like 700+ haste to begin with :P, which is clearly an overkill for Disc.

I'm just trying to understand if there's a super challenging encounter where you need up to 30k mana, which you can't progress with your stacked spell power. Or is it just a preference, as good as other options.

As for renew, I agree with its usability and I've always liked it.
The only thing that bothers me is Renew not proccing Inspiration or Serendipity, while Flash Heal procs everything.

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