WotLK Healing Compendium v3.2: Same Old Thing - Page 59

Ellyh · 10/08/09, 7:57 PM

Doing some math on the proposed T10 4 piece shows that it is woefully weak in most RL raid situations. Basically for both Disc and Holy you are only going to get 1 ppm with what I consider "standard" spell spreads. On top of this the typical hurry up of the cooldown generated by the proc is a pitiful 2-3 seconds, as it is worth noting that standard chain casting lag with procs will almost certainly lead to a filler spell between proc and usage.

For Holy I assume a "rotation" of 1 FH in the 6 second CoH cooldown cycle. Thus for a 30 second window we are casting 5 flashes with a chance of proccing of only 54%. extending out to 1 minute we have only got an 80% chance of getting a proc in that one minute window. The average ammount of time gained from a proc is about a 2 second cooldown reduction. This is only a little more than 1 ppm over a long fight.

Despite first thoughts about pennance being notably better, when I thought about how I acutally cast while tank healing I realised that I only really cast 2 Flashes in the 8 second penance cycle with the rest of the time being PoM/Shield moving etc. Thus in a 32 second window we cast 6 flash heals with a 62% chance of getting proc. if we double that to 1m4 seconds we have a 90% chance of having had at least one proc and while I can't do the math I believe that this will equate to about 1.5 ppm over the course of a long fight. And again because of how lag and procs interact you will average about a 3 sec cooldown reduction.

If they really want this to be a meaningful and used bonus they probably need to increase the proc chance by at least a factor of 2 times. At 30% proc chance the holy cycle has a 85% proc chance and it is about 89% for the 32 sec disc cycle.

Kashir · 10/08/09, 8:48 PM

Actually, I just did some rough maths, and even if the proc rate was 100% I think it would still not be a very useful proc.

Note: Figures taken from last night's (hilariously bad) attempts at Twin Valkyr. Raid buffed, I sit at about 3500 SP, 35% crit, and enough haste to bring the GCD to about 1.25 seconds. All figures are averaged to include crit heals, and assume 0% overheal. If you have less haste, the rotations would be a little different, but the core answer would probably be the same.

To start with, let's consider when a proc-based CoH cooldown reset would actually be useful. Obviously, the answer is "When the whole raid, or at least a portion of the raid clustered in a small group, are taking steady ongoing damage". In such a case, you can always be sure that when CoH comes off cooldown, you can use it straight away for optimal healing throughput.

As a rule, PoM should be kept on cooldown in such a situation, and our healing "rotation" must be built around that rule. Thus, if the 4-piece bonus had a 100% proc rate, the three "rotations" to compare would be:

PoM -> CoH -> FH -> CoH -> FH -> CoH -> PoM -> FH -> CoH -> FH -> CoH -> FH -> [Repeat from beginning. Note that we can't use a 7 second rotation, because CoH will be on cooldown after the second PoM]

versus...

PoM -> CoH -> Renew -> Renew -> Renew -> Renew -> PoM -> CoH -> Renew -> Renew -> Renew -> Renew

versus...

PoM -> CoH -> PoH -> PoH -> PoM -> CoH -> PoH -> PoH

---

Prayer of Mending: 6.7k average hit * 5 = 33.5k healing per cast
Circle of Healing: 3.8k average hit * 6 = 22.8k healing per cast
Renew: 1.8k average hit for Empowered Renew + 2.2k * 5 HoT ticks = 12.8k healing per cast
Flash Heal: 6.4k average hit, assuming ~50% SoL proc chance = 6.4k healing per cast
Prayer of Healing: 5.4k average hit * 5 = 27k healing per cast

---

If we compare the healing values to the rotations above, we end up with:

CoH / FH rotation: 2 * PoM + 5 * CoH + 5 * FH ~= 213k healing per 14 seconds
CoH / Renew rotation: 2 * PoM + 2 * CoH + 8 * Renew ~= 215k healing per 14 seconds
CoH / PoH rotation: 2 * PoM + 2 * CoH + 4 * PoH ~= 220k healing per 14 seconds

---

In short; even if the 4-piece bonus was a 100% proc chance, to maximise HPS it would be better to use a PoH or Renew rotation in an encounter with raid-wide AOE. Personally I'd stick with Renew; PoH is far more likely to be overheal than the other spells, and it chews through our mana obscenely fast.

Considering that the proc rate is 15%, not 100%, there is absolutely no comparison. Using FH over Renew / PoH in order to force CoH procs is a very, very bad idea.

Finkum · 10/08/09, 11:27 PM

Blizzard have already updated some of the more egregious DPS set bonuses, and opened a feedback thread for the healing ones. As the priest feedback is overwhelmingly negative, fingers crossed they rethink both bonuses.

One of the more interesting suggestions was to make the cooldown-reset into a Lock-and-Load-type effect, where the proc effect stops your next CoH/Penance from triggering its cooldown, allowing back-to-back use. Ultimately the randomness of the proc remains a big issue for me, especially as Holy already has to track and react to instant FH procs.

tsigo · 10/09/09, 2:17 AM

Originally Posted by Finkum

One of the more interesting suggestions was to make the cooldown-reset into a Lock-and-Load-type effect, where the proc effect stops your next CoH/Penance from triggering its cooldown, allowing back-to-back use.

Ooh. Yes, that'd make it much more interesting.

Lambi · 10/09/09, 3:36 AM

Or they could just make those numbers static reductions instead of on a chance basis. Meaning that every flash heal would take 1.2 seconds off the penance cooldown and 0.9 second off the coh cooldown. That's what makes serendipity so good, you can actually control it. As a healer you don't really want those type of procs (if they're not for mana regen).

But yes lock and load sounds very good. Wish I could post on the american forums...

Speaking of tier pieces, T10 actually has pretty cool graphics for the rest of the classes so I'm really looking forward to getting a look on ours. Hoping to look very angelic.

constantius · 10/09/09, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Ellyh

Despite first thoughts about pennance being notably better, when I thought about how I acutally cast while tank healing I realised that I only really cast 2 Flashes in the 8 second penance cycle with the rest of the time being PoM/Shield moving etc. Thus in a 32 second window we cast 6 flash heals with a 62% chance of getting proc. if we double that to 1m4 seconds we have a 90% chance of having had at least one proc and while I can't do the math I believe that this will equate to about 1.5 ppm over the course of a long fight. And again because of how lag and procs interact you will average about a 3 sec cooldown reduction.

Just quibbling, but it's a 10 second Penance cycle now.

Penance - Spell - World of Warcraft + [Glyph of Penance]

Typical · 10/09/09, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Finkum

Blizzard have already updated some of the more egregious DPS set bonuses, and opened a feedback thread for the healing ones. As the priest feedback is overwhelmingly negative, fingers crossed they rethink both bonuses.

One of the more interesting suggestions was to make the cooldown-reset into a Lock-and-Load-type effect, where the proc effect stops your next CoH/Penance from triggering its cooldown, allowing back-to-back use. Ultimately the randomness of the proc remains a big issue for me, especially as Holy already has to track and react to instant FH procs.

back-to-back use would be a much better way to go with it. I use power aura's addon to track all of my procs. The set bonus they have now looks good on paper but with the math done above it would be pretty much worthless.

Headhuntress · 10/09/09, 1:48 PM

Originally Posted by constantius

Just quibbling, but it's a 10 second Penance cycle now.

Penance - Spell - World of Warcraft + [Glyph of Penance]

You forgot Aspiration.

constantius · 10/09/09, 4:38 PM

Today was not my day. You're absolutely right, he was right, and I'm wrong. Don't know what I was thinking.

Sun_Tzu · 10/09/09, 5:09 PM

EU got their feedback thread today, figured I'd mention it since it's not been getting a lot of attention:
EU Healing T10 Feedback

Fingers crossed we got something that's not completely useless.

Ellyh · 10/09/09, 5:59 PM

Updated bonuses published.

* 2 piece bonus - Your Flash Heal critical strikes cause the target to heal for 25% of the healed amount over 9 sec.
* 4 piece bonus - Your Circle of Healing and Penance spells have a 20% chance to cause your next Flash Heal cast within 6 sec to reset the cooldown on your Circle of Healing and Penance spells.

New two piece is now viable for disc but soso for holy. The 4 piece is still kinda strange and the proc rate is probably still somewhat to low as I doubt we will get much more that 2 ppm as disc and holy still doesn't want to be casting flash in a raid healing situation.

Lambi · 10/09/09, 6:11 PM

Having a bonus that relies on critting flash heals isn't very smart for holy, where you have SoL that makes your next FH non crittable...

Not so good for tank healing disc either, since you'll be over writing alot and the ticks will be very small too (like around 650 a tick)

Sun_Tzu · 10/09/09, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ellyh

Updated bonuses published.

* 2 piece bonus - Your Flash Heal critical strikes cause the target to heal for 25% of the healed amount over 9 sec.
* 4 piece bonus - Your Circle of Healing and Penance spells have a 20% chance to cause your next Flash Heal cast within 6 sec to reset the cooldown on your Circle of Healing and Penance spells.

Quite obviously, for Holy nothing changes, the bonuses are still utterly useless. Atleast I don't have to pay 1200 dkp for my tierpieces like I did for 258 yesterday...

Zaq · 10/10/09, 2:46 AM

Originally Posted by Lambi

Not so good for tank healing disc either, since you'll be over writing a lot and the ticks will be very small too (like around 650 a tick)

This strikes me as the real problem with it. 25% of a flash crit is pretty small beans anyway, but split up into a hot will make it about as important as healing stream, unless it has an incredibly short duration.

Lambi · 10/10/09, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Zaq

This strikes me as the real problem with it. 25% of a flash crit is pretty small beans anyway, but split up into a hot will make it about as important as healing stream, unless it has an incredibly short duration.

Well it says "over 9 seconds" and since they "always" use the same mechanics as they already have, it's extremely likely that it will tick every 3 seconds.