WotLK Healing Discussion v3.2: Ulduar and Coliseum - Page 11

Forces · 05/14/09, 4:27 AM

Originally Posted by Glasswizard

Concerning Thorim hard + disc priest. We found that a disc spamming the whole raid with shields greatly increases the survivabilty. So if I had to choose between holy and disc, I'd always choose the disc on this encounter.

But if you have the ability to bring both, it's really smart since the healing output of holy is incredibly high and because of disc's mitigation. Renewed Hope is definitely worth the drop of healing output of disc since they both even out from damage mitigated.

We used 2 holy priests and 1 disc priest for our 2nd Freya 3D kill, which worked out easier then our first.

BulgarBG · 05/14/09, 7:17 PM

Last night was our first dedicated night for this encounter. Bearing in mind that I'm the only priest (healing) for the raid, it was a real pain to determine a spec. I started as disc to focus on MT healing, but as the night went on, our raid-healing was not cutting it. When I changed to Holy to heal raid, the fight all of a sudden became much easier. It is no secret that holy is king on raid spamming and this allowed us to finally get more time into the fight without loosing DPS people.

From previous posts and discussions I see a lot of advocating for what the role of the disc priest on this fight should be. It seems to me that there are 2 schools of thought:
- shield spamming on the raid, tanks
- focused on MT (this was my original understanding that much job should be, however after couple attempts, it felt to me, that I'm not doing nearly enough. I'm more of asserting personal feeling then healing meters here, I don't expect to be on top as disc, but I do however expect to see results of my healing and 'feel it')

Logs: WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish (I'm not sure how useful these are, no real way to separate Ph2 alone, for which I care to see)

What I'm trying to say is that it feels to me that for the incoming hard modes a disc and holy priest are 'close to mandatory' addition for any raid as no other class can match the output of holy and no other class can match or even come close to the mitigation / stabilizing utility of mass shield spamming.

How are others handing Thorium?
Our raid setups was: priest, 2 x druids, 2x shaman, 2x paladins

Also if we move the priest to raid healing, holy, that will leave only 'reliable' source of inspiration on the MT, which is not to underestimated considering that our tanks were getting 40k unbalancing strikes with 7-8+ buffs.

Also, do you use 'tank-rotation' on this fight? We were having the 2nd tank taunt off Thorium as soon as unbalancing lands, although this works in the lower 'brackers' of Thoruim debufs, I'm not entirely sure how will this work during the last 20-30%? Is it just better to start chaining cooldowns on MT earlier and not bother with swaps?

Any input is appreciated, thanks!

Forces · 05/14/09, 9:45 PM

I'd recruit another priest to go either full time holy or disc, that way you'll get the best of both. Sit a resto druid for bringing in a holy priest imo.

Prancer · 05/14/09, 10:26 PM

My guild is going to start working on hard mode Vezax this week, 10 man. We are by no means a super high-end guild, but our 10 mans seem to work pretty well. Now, we were going to run with 2 healers and a retridin, hoping we could fit in 6 DPS classes.

So, I thought about an encounter-specific spec. Remember that I have never done this particular hard mode and as such don't have any experience to back it up. I came to the conclusion that this >spec< would be ideal for the encounter, unless the damage is so intense that I will need circle of healing.

Anyway, the idea of the spec is that the Lightwell will provide the tank with a bit of healing in the beginning of the encounter, saving the healers some mana. Once the add spawns the lightwell will provide a significant amount of healing to the raid, especially if I can time it so we get 2 lightwells while the add is alive.
Furthermore I would be able to stand in the black puddles and throw shields on everyone, then step out of the puddle and spam PoH and cheap flash heals until I can shield everyone again.

While all of that is going on, my fellow healer, a druid, will be keeping the tank alive and throw some wild growths when it's off cooldown.

Any tips on healing this encounter would be greatly appreciated. The main reason for this post though. is to get some feedback on that spec, for that encounter. Even if it just "Go spec Circle of healing, noob!"

Forces · 05/14/09, 11:19 PM

The damage won't be incredibly intense. To be quite honest, if anything go full disc because the only person who will be taking damage is your tank. Another suggestion would be bringing Shaman for Healing Stream. Ideally, 1 in each group.

There won't be tons of damage to the raid if your raiders move out of shadow crash and are aware of Touch of Madness. The only people who should be taking damage the entire fight is your two tanks.

Squeakster · 05/15/09, 1:42 AM

Forces, I agree with on for easy mode General Vezax but Prancer was asking about hard mode, in which case there is significant raid damage while the Saronite Animus is up. I think there is really no question you should go Discipline for hard mode Vezax due to the extra mana from Mental Strength, the super efficient Penance, and PWS+Shadow Crash. Any typical Disc spec works, including down the holy tree to Improved Healing which is nice for Penance on the tank.

The nice thing about disc for Vezax is that standing in the shadow crash doesn't hurt PWS like it does healing spells, so while the Saronite Animus is up you can just stand in the shadow crash and spam PWS all day. Before and after the Animus you can react well to tank hits with the super efficient and fast Penance.

• constantius · 05/15/09, 1:59 AM

If you're serious about hard-mode Vezax, Disc is absolutely the way to go. Rapture works (if reduced), PW:S can be cast for 200 mana in a Shadow Crash, and you have efficiency, something Holy fails at. We ran 2 Disc priests for our kill, and it made a huge difference. Our effective healing (even with PW:S) wasn't the highest, but we had it available at the critical point in the fight when it was needed, which was all that mattered.

Ayreon · 05/15/09, 2:26 AM

Bah, it never occured to me I could stand in the shadow crash and cast extremely cheap PW:S

Thanks for the tip.
Well anyway, what worked for us was me being disc (as others said, even though Lightwell could be potentinally useful, disc is superior), the other healer was a paladin and we also had a resto shaman that was DPSing until the add spawned at which point he helped with raidhealing.

Juli · 05/15/09, 2:52 AM

Originally Posted by Ayreon

Bah, it never occured to me I could stand in the shadow crash and cast extremely cheap PW:S

Be careful though. If the tank spikes you can get in trouble, especially when other healers are out of range or moving. You have to move out of the "shadow pool" before healing, and it can take a couple seconds for the debuff to drop off even after you're completely out of the graphic on the ground.

Forces · 05/15/09, 5:28 AM

Even then, the shadow crash is tricky. Only because it reduces the amount healed by your [Glyph of Power Word: Shield].

I'm still curious as to if it would reduce the healing of PoM also. Anyone test this?

Starfire · 05/15/09, 7:16 PM

Do you run [Flask of the Frost Wyrm] for Vezax hard? Or stick with [Flask of Distilled Wisdom] for the couple of extra casts you can get out of it.

Also a little tip/trick, [Dark Rune] worked for me on Vezax. But watch out, there is a 15 minute cooldown on it.

Additionally, you can bounce PoM's off of yourself using SWD and the mana cast reduction. This -does- proc SWD. (Since no one is taking damage, cast your first SWD and it should put you at a deficit, after that just be sure you're in range of the bounces).

• constantius · 05/15/09, 7:26 PM

I ran Flask of Distilled Wisdom for our first kill, because it actually gave me 6 extra PW:S casts, and returned slightly more mana per Rapture proc. Either works, honestly. I just wish I had a +int trinket and a staff to use for the fight. My Soul of the Dead isn't tremendously useful.

Marw · 05/15/09, 7:59 PM

I was wondering if you can do Freya hard mode with 2 healers. Did Ulduar10 tonight with 2 healers so have to replace someone if we need 3 for Freya hard mode.

Juli · 05/16/09, 3:55 AM

Isn't hard mode discussion still off-limits? There's a lot of it going on in this thread! I'd be glad to offer my opinions/experience, but this seems to be overstepping the boundaries of the posting guidelines: Ulduar Posting Guidelines

Bossi · 05/16/09, 5:44 AM

edited: Probably off limits (Ulduar posting guidelines

Forces · 05/16/09, 5:50 AM

[Spark of Hope] is nice for Vezax hard, but I'd much prefer [Pandora's Plea] in that fight simply because of longevity. Perhaps having both is the smartest setup?

• constantius · 05/16/09, 7:00 AM

I'm not seeing any issues with discussing any 10-man hard-mode fights with the exception of Yogg-2 or more, Freya or Mimiron. Everything else is pretty much doable, widely beaten, or not "secret strat" dependent. We all know roughly how to do FL+4.10, it's just a question of whether or not we've cared to put in the time to pull it off. Of course, that's a bad example because there's no healing in that fight.

But when there are over 200 guilds that have killed Thorim.25-hard and Hodir.25-hard, it's not really breaking any secret walls to talk about the 10 *or* 25-man versions of those fights. Just keep it within reason. Freya, Mimiron, and Yogg-hard(s) (possibly XT) haven't been widely beaten yet; while Vezax hasn't been widely beaten, it's also really not very strat-dependent. There's no mana, you dps things, you win. There are videos and strats available, so if someone is interested in how to priest-ify it, I'm not seeing the issue.

Distomos · 05/18/09, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by constantius

[...] while Vezax hasn't been widely beaten, it's also really not very strat-dependent. There's no mana, you dps things, you win. There are videos and strats available, so if someone is interested in how to priest-ify it, I'm not seeing the issue.

Me, either. As such: I'm a bit at a loss as to why 57/14/0 would be suggested for this fight given the WWS breakdowns I've seen in association with the spec. Wouldn't 53/18/0 be more efficient? You can do at least 2/3 Improved Healing with 2/2 Grace or 3/3 Improved Healing with 1/2 Grace. Flash Heal is barely used, if once or twice. In P1, Cios (the other Priest in my guild) is Penancing and I'm taking care of Power Word: Shields on the tank. You can assume 100% up time on Grace in P3 as, after it's stacked, it will stay stacked because you're healing the tank at least every 15 seconds and short of absurdly bad luck, you will get a proc at least once every 15 seconds. It should be said that we're dropping the Glyph of Flash Heal for Glyph of Prayer of Healing, as well.

Assume a 525 mana cost Penance (could be less with [Spark of Hope] depending on your gear) and a 666 mana cost Power Word: Shield (again, less, as I'm standing in Shadow Crash) vs. rotating Penances and Power Word: Shields by two Priests every fifteen seconds. It seemed more organized than switching back and forth, which we tried for several attempts and realized that we actually ended up spending more mana than the aforementioned set-up just due the the nature of the fight. It was a little... unnecessarily hectic? Whatever works, though.

When do people start to rotate Power Word: Shields on the raid in P2? Immediately was too soon, so I was beginning to at roughly 80% on Animus. What have people had the best results with?

• constantius · 05/18/09, 3:48 PM

We rotate the PWS so that each priest gets the Rapture ticks. When we tried one of us in, one of us out, it ended with the one in Crash having far more mana going into P2. Also, you still do FH occasionally: we use a DK tank, and just tank through the enrage, so he'll usually take one big hit.

What I do is start off as the 8th spawn starts heading in to form the Animus, and shield half the raid. Then I stand there until all the shields drop, do it again, and then FFA heal / shield while hoping that we make it. Spin out of the Crash and IF->DH for some great healing in the middle (have your shadow priests do this too, even if they have to respec to get IF).

Erzz · 05/19/09, 12:19 PM

Also a good idea (atleast we found it to be a good idea in 10 man Vez-hard) is to have your healers rotate mana-reducing CDs. For instance, at the beginning of the fight, our paladin popped their Divine Illumination. When it was off, I popped PI and moved out of the crash (after shielding, of course) to solo heal the tank for the duration with penance etc., after I popped PS and went back to shield again. Tank was using CDs wisely with heals, too. Mana was fine overall (saved IF + DH until p2, though I was able to IF at the beginning, as well), though I did need to suicide at the end to SS and finish off the last 4% due to our resto druid dying in p2. Also, yes 4-piece is ridiculously good for this fight as disc, lol.

Sharajat · 05/19/09, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Forces

Even then, the shadow crash is tricky. Only because it reduces the amount healed by your [Glyph of Power Word: Shield].

I'm still curious as to if it would reduce the healing of PoM also. Anyone test this?

It does NOT reduce the healing of PW:S Glyph. I think the healing is a proc off the shield, or something like that, or it's just totally overlooked, but it heals for the same amount.

Tried PoM, but I missed the result because I was dodging a shadow crash, and I forgot to test again. I will next time we're on him.

• constantius · 05/19/09, 4:15 PM

It does reduce the healing of Prayer of Mending, last time I checked it. I always just jump out of the crash, toss it off as soon as the debuff fades, then jump back in. It's nice healing in P2.

Crepusculu · 05/19/09, 6:49 PM

I ran a successful Vezax using 2 disciple + druid -- and rediscovered most of what has been posted here. The PW:S glyph has full effect in the oil slick, and IF DH is incredible. I actually respecced out of Imp Flash in order to pick up Improved Healing to reduce penance by 10%, and it made a huge difference. Instead of running out of mana just as Animus dies, I had a healthy 5000ish mana. I also did NOT use mending on that run, since I noticed its mana cost was nearly the same per penance cast, but penance had higher returns for tank healing.

I'm actually wondering if it would be feasible for a holy spec to "fish" for surge of light procs while in the oily debuff. Even though healing is reduced more than mana cost, the penalty may be offset by enjoying lower overhealing + more free flash heals

Erzz · 05/19/09, 11:53 PM

Anyone tried hardmode Deconstructor post hp nerf? We were trying to 4 heal it (due to just barely getting the heart), but my mana was taking a shit. What healing settup do you guys use? We ran with a druid, two holy priests, and a paladin. Dunno if we should take out a priest for a resto shaman. If it's too soon so talk about it then just ignore me~

• constantius · 05/20/09, 2:15 AM

We killed the 25-man hard-mode tonight with 6 healers. I have a strong feeling the 10-man is designed for 3 healers, simply due to enrage, but it's entirely up to the raid. If you have the dps to beak the berserk, stack healers until you don't, then stop.