Canceling heals on Algalon is generally not a good plan. Make sure to use penance as often as possible since it's more efficient and use PW:S when you have to move (or when weakened soul fades if there's been a smash recently). But yeah, your gear definitely could use some upgrading. You're still using several naxx items, which is not ideal for fighting boss that expects you to be Ulduar-geared. You'll also find your mana lasting longer if you use regen-focused trinkets and/or a staff instead of spellpower trinkets and a mace/off-hand.
You have to plan on the actual length of Algalon, and use your cooldowns accordingly. I burn HoH on the first Big Bang (as soon as you enter the portal, move to your "safe spot", Fade, then start channeling -- Algalon stays inactive for 2-3 seconds after the end of BB, so your tank will be fine), and then mana potion soon after. Shadowfiend usually gets burned halfway through the third phase (between 2nd and 3rd BB), and that's enough to return me to 85% mana. This is one fight you absolutely will not be ending with "high mana", but so long as it's > 0, you're fine.
You can see that my gear is reasonably focused toward regen, and includes a lot of 239 items, but even on our first kill, I was able to sustain full-out spam tank healing for the full fight without going OOM.
As said above, however, your gear is fairly weak to be on Algalon. You have far too many 213 items left in your gearset: rings, cloak, shoulders, neck, and horrific trinkets. Do you have access to [Soul of the Dead] and some T8 gear? You're almost clearing Ulduar.10: where are your T8.10 legs, helm, shoulders, etc.?
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
Thanks for the advice and tips. I was using Penance on cooldown with Flash Heals in between, keeping up PW:S for the Weakened Soul debuff, but considering what has been said, it would be more optimal to save PW:S for when a star is killed or when one of the tank healers (Pally/me) has to move.
Gear definitely is an issue for me at the moment because my main is a Prot Warrior (play my priest for Ulduar10 due to unavailability of other healers), so I pass on everything unless no one needs it. In light of the healing requirements, I suppose I do need to try to obtain as many upgrades as possible between weekly resets.
We haven't killed algalon 10 yet, but have lasted until enrage. I tend to use gheal alot on that fight because I watch my paladin partner's cast bar. If a holy light will be going off in a second or so that will top off the tank, I will usually start winding up a big greater heal instead of hitting flash. I am specced into improved healing to help out with the extra mana cost. I do not have mana issues on algalon as long as I use my shadowfiend.
I do castcancel my gheals when the tank is at 100%. I've gotten pretty good at stopping the heal at the last possible moment, so it is less risky. Some gheals do accidentally go off at full HP because I err more toward too late than too soon.
The best way for me to keep the tank alive in our 10man Algalon kill was more or less spamming flash heals without canceling casts + keeping pom on the tank + sometimes serendipity hasted gheals. Yes, I was holy priest and on tank heal duty, our setup was holypala/holypriest/resto druid.
The main reason why I prefer flash heal over greater heal in this fight is to avoid rng burst damage on the tank as much as possible. There are situations in which your tank will get hit by 4 hits in a row without avoiding a single one and if he doesn't get a heal in between these hits, he's pretty much dead. If can land a flash heal in between these hits, it might be just enough for him to survive the 4th hit until your holy paladin's holy light will land and save your tank.
Another advantage for me was an better inspiration uptime on the tank. Admittedly, if you are disciple, you won't have a big problem with inspiration uptime, but it was nice for me as a holy priest.
I think a holy priest with inspiration works quite okay as a tank healer on 10man Algalon. You still have coh to help raid healing if the tank is safe and you have the big advantage of having a guardian spirit to trivialize 1-2 big bangs.
If anyone is curious, here's the log of my 1st kill: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (add tank died to cosmic smash resulting in adds killing me shortly after)
Why would you heal Algalon.10 (tank) as holy? That's like playing with a blindfold and your hands tied behind your back. If you have a DK, the combination of IBF and PS mitigate a Big Bang anyway. I'll admit that GS is nice, but absorbs on the tank are "more nice".
Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein
My 10 man group has just gotten to Algalon. We're using a warrior and a druid to tank him, and that's working out alright. Our main problem is healing. We don't have access to another reliable healer, so it's just me (going as Disc offspec) and a holy paladin. We're both 25 man geared, and we've done every hardmode in 10 man with just the two of us (yes, including Firefighter). I think the pally is having issues with the damage pattern, as he's used to stuff hitting slowly for 20k.
My question is if this is possible. Our main problem this lockout was keeping the tank up after a collapsing star explosion (we'd focus too much on raid to keep the tank healed enough if he hit an unlucky avoidance string). Our current plan for next week is to have me on the tank full time spamming my selection of PW:S, PoM, FH, and Penance and keeping Inspiration up while the pally uses Beacon + Holy Light on all the DPS that have taken damage from the star. Of course, they won't be full HLs, which is one of my worries, but I'll be on the tank full time except for a few GCDs on Renew to clean up Cosmic Smash damage. Our only healer sub is possibly being taken by our guild's other 10 man group and none of our DPS have healer offspecs or experience, leaving us in a bit of a pickle.
My 10 man group has just gotten to Algalon. We're using a warrior and a druid to tank him, and that's working out alright. Our main problem is healing. We don't have access to another reliable healer, so it's just me (going as Disc offspec) and a holy paladin. We're both 25 man geared, and we've done every hardmode in 10 man with just the two of us (yes, including Firefighter). I think the pally is having issues with the damage pattern, as he's used to stuff hitting slowly for 20k.
My question is if this is possible. Our main problem this lockout was keeping the tank up after a collapsing star explosion (we'd focus too much on raid to keep the tank healed enough if he hit an unlucky avoidance string). Our current plan for next week is to have me on the tank full time spamming my selection of PW:S, PoM, FH, and Penance and keeping Inspiration up while the pally uses Beacon + Holy Light on all the DPS that have taken damage from the star. Of course, they won't be full HLs, which is one of my worries, but I'll be on the tank full time except for a few GCDs on Renew to clean up Cosmic Smash damage. Our only healer sub is possibly being taken by our guild's other 10 man group and none of our DPS have healer offspecs or experience, leaving us in a bit of a pickle.
You need two healers on your tank full time. The beacon of light plan is a cool idea, but it greatly increases the chance of someone being killed by arcane barrage after big bang.
PWS spam is almost 10k HPS if the glyph is fully healing. P2 Mimiron is a perfect example of how disc is can rival holy as raid healing.
I am not sure about this one. How do you calculate the 10K HPS?
P2 Mimiron or Hodirs Frozen Blows are situations were we can actually sustain PWS spamming with a full effective heal on each cast, that is true.
But as for the 10K HPs: according to napkin math, a disc priest with 2500 spellpower raid buffed absorbs and heals around 8K with a single shield (perhaps a bit less). Now, even if you get off a shield exactly every second (which I consider pretty unrealistic), that would be 8K HPS. At 1s GcD cap, allowing for only 100ms of lag, the number already drops by 10%.
Did you take into account absorption from preshielding, or how did you come by that number?
Originally Posted by Pewsey
Many of our snakes are 3m+ in size. They'll just take the lawnmower off you and beat the shit out of you with it to make you tender, then bite you and eat you.
Well I also said that I assumed the glyph was fully healing (which is pretty likely during frozen blows or P2 Mimiron). So going with your number of an 8k shield, plus 8000*.2 = 1600 healing from the glpyh, that's 9600 healing + mitigation per shield cast.
One shield per second is also pretty reasonable, because BT haste does affect the GCD triggered by the next spell. So after the first PWS you cast you will have whatever your normal GCD (1.2 or 1.3 seconds, whatever). But every PWS after that will have the 25% haste applied to the GCD so it will be below 1 second for any reasonable amount of haste on your gear.
Also 2500 SP seems pretty low end to me because the T8 4-piece bonus will be up the entire time. I'm not terribly well geared and don't gem pure SP, but I typically have 2800-2900 SP during PWS spam in a 25 man raid. So upping the numbers for higher spell power, 10k HPS is pretty reasonable.
Well I also said that I assumed the glyph was fully healing (which is pretty likely during frozen blows or P2 Mimiron). So going with your number of an 8k shield, plus 8000*.2 = 1600 healing from the glpyh, that's 9600 healing + mitigation per shield cast.
One shield per second is also pretty reasonable, because BT haste does affect the GCD triggered by the next spell. So after the first PWS you cast you will have whatever your normal GCD (1.2 or 1.3 seconds, whatever). But every PWS after that will have the 25% haste applied to the GCD so it will be below 1 second for any reasonable amount of haste on your gear.
Also 2500 SP seems pretty low end to me because the T8 4-piece bonus will be up the entire time. I'm not terribly well geared and don't gem pure SP, but I typically have 2800-2900 SP during PWS spam in a 25 man raid. So upping the numbers for higher spell power, 10k HPS is pretty reasonable.
His 8k number already included the glyph, and borrowed time won't bring the GCD below 1 second.
To be fair, on our last freya-3 kill, I spent most of my time Power Word: Shield spamming and had an average glyph hit of 1.5k, which would make the heal+glyph 9k, rather than 8k. I was running double spellpower trinkets though (Sif's Remembrance and Show of Faith) and using a spell power flask, so I'd find getting to 10k in Ulduar gear rather unlikely.
Last edited by RootBreaker : 07/28/09 at 10:56 AM.
Well I also said that I assumed the glyph was fully healing (which is pretty likely during frozen blows or P2 Mimiron). So going with your number of an 8k shield, plus 8000*.2 = 1600 healing from the glpyh, that's 9600 healing + mitigation per shield cast.
One shield per second is also pretty reasonable, because BT haste does affect the GCD triggered by the next spell. So after the first PWS you cast you will have whatever your normal GCD (1.2 or 1.3 seconds, whatever). But every PWS after that will have the 25% haste applied to the GCD so it will be below 1 second for any reasonable amount of haste on your gear.
Also 2500 SP seems pretty low end to me because the T8 4-piece bonus will be up the entire time. I'm not terribly well geared and don't gem pure SP, but I typically have 2800-2900 SP during PWS spam in a 25 man raid. So upping the numbers for higher spell power, 10k HPS is pretty reasonable.
I'm certain his '8k' number was including the heal, if it is being realistic. 2500 spell power will net you a ~6580 shield with a ~1315 proc for a total of 7995 'heals' on a GCD. 3500 spell power gives you a ~8098 shield/~1620 proc for a ~9718 shield. To get this awesome 10k hps we need 3655 spell power to get a [(2230+(3655*0.8086)+(3655*0.4))*1.09*1.15=8332.5] shield and [8332.5*.20=1666.5] proc for 9999 total heals in a global cooldown, assuming an absolute best case scenario with capped haste, 0 latency, perfect execution, and everyone you shield having a health deficit of at least 1667 and they will take at least 8333 damage in the next 30 seconds. I would say if you are a discipline priest running with 3655 spell power in Ulduar, then the encounter is probably trivialized for you since you will need better than BiS gear. (chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner as close as I got 3238 (add 250 more for 4 piece tier 8 bonus, which you can't have with this setup) SP fully buffed, using absurd gemming and profession/quest reward abuse).
Also, after the first shield you cast, you will receive the effect of Borrowed time, which can (assuming ~6% haste from gear, 6% from Enlightenment, and full raid buffs) give you a 1 sec GCD, never below this.
Holy with more realistic numbers and the simple raid healing rotation outlined by Constantius in the Healing Compendium (2x hasted PoH, CoH, FH, FH, PoH, CoH), again assuming all raid buffs, 2500 spell power (low for Holy), 10% haste, glyphed PoH, 30% crit, and everyone under 50% health for Test of Faith for at least 1 PoH gives us 150084 healing in 10.6 seconds for 14158 hps given a similar best case scenario.
Also, if you're in a heavy raid damage situation and you are spamming shields only, you are missing out on ProM [potential 12712 for 1 hasted GCD] and hasted PoH [potential 24921 with 1.9 cast for 13157 HPS]
Not gonna argue with your calculations there since the whole discussion is rather pointless. Disc is not about having a maximum of HPS. The 10k sound a bit far fetched though, I have to agree. Here's a log from our Mimiron Hardmode kill last week: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
As you can see I peek at somewhere above 7k HPS with spamming PW:S. Now I won't say that there was no room for improvement, but another 3k HPS? I doubt it...
Your gearlist looks quite silly, too. If you'd skip 4pcT8 it would much rather look like this: chardev.org v6 ~ a World of Warcraft character planner (new Val'anyr stats and Starwatcher's Binding are missing on chardev)
You wouldn't want to skip 4pcT8, though. All that shiny hard mode gear won't give you more than those 250 spellpower.
Sure, my numbers already included the glyph (which is why I wrote "absorbs and heals").
As for the 1s GcD, there's also the question whether that is realistic. If you assume only a 100ms delay until the next Pw:S is cast, that's already a 10% reduction in HPS whereas the effect of the 100ms is less relevant on longer casts such as PoH.
As a side note, don't get me wrong - I totally see the utility of Pw:S spam in many places. It's just that the 10K number seems somewhat off to me. I also think it's worth the effort to get a realistic number of what's achievable - in order to better evaluate what to use when - without having to go back to gut feelings.
Originally Posted by Pewsey
Many of our snakes are 3m+ in size. They'll just take the lawnmower off you and beat the shit out of you with it to make you tender, then bite you and eat you.
I misspoke when I said BT haste brings the GCD "below" one second, I meant to say "to one second," my apologies. And I apologize for misreading your first post, Hegen.
There are a few things missing from the math above - that the PWS glyph can crit (and next patch proc DA), and that the glyph is also affected by focused power.
I think we can agree 3000 SP is a reasonable number (and 35% crit on the glyph):
I admit this is not 10k, but that's why my original post said "almost" 10k HPS, and within 9% counts as almost to me. Next time I will be more specific than saying almost. And like some people have mentioned, 3000 SP is far from the maximum possible, so extremely well geared priests will be even closer to 10k.
I agree that one should include ProM during PWS spam. I also agree that the theoretical HPS of a holy priest is higher than PWS spam. But if we include the effects of overhealing and group members OOR of PoH, the numbers are really much closer. PWS is much less likely to overheal than PoH, and you will never miss part of a PWS because one group member was too far from the others. Not to mention the value of mass pre-shielding.
I actually don't know how latency will affect spamming. If I target someone and start spamming my PWS button while I am still in the GCD triggered by the previous PWS, does my game wait until my GCD is over and then send a message to the server that I am casting a PWS on my target? Or does my game send a message to the server every time I push the PWS button, and the server decides if I am still in the GCD and whether or not the PWS gets casted? If it is the first, then I agree that a 100 ms latency will definitely decrease the HPS by around 10%, but if it is the second I think the latency won't actually matter.
Like how you can cancel a heal while there is still 0.1 seconds left on your screen, but the heal casts anyway. That suggests to me that the actual decision is being made by the server, so if you have 100 ms latency and you send a message to the server that you want to cast a PWS on someone while there is still 100 ms in your GCD, by the time the message gets to the server that remaining 100 ms of the GCD is over and the server will okay the PWS cast, so there is no time lost. I don't really know the nuts and bolts behind it all though.
PW:S is an extremely nice spell though it isn't a "iwin" button. While this theoretical ~10k throughput from PW:S spam is nice it isn't really optimal in most situations. A Disc priest should not forget to use PoH/PoM or even HN..
I hate to interrupt or barge in on your current discussion (which I can barely follow, D but I have a quick question that could be answered. I am having a debate with my guild leader and raid leader who plays a Priest. He is telling me I should get into the addon "Clique" but I have tried and I didn't feel comfortable using it. I would always mess up and heal the wrong person or use the wrong spell. We're progressing through Ulduar and are attempting some hard modes such as XT-002 and Flame Leviathon 3 Towers and he wants everyone to do everything in their power to increase their performance. I decided I would check out mouse over macros and see if they were any good. I used them in addition to my Grid add on and they worked fantastic. Now that you know the back story of my question, Elitist Jerks, what should I do? He's insisting I get into Clique as it will up my performance ten-fold, apparently. Do you feel mouse over macros are on par with add ons and mods?
I hate to interrupt or barge in on your current discussion (which I can barely follow, D but I have a quick question that could be answered. I am having a debate with my guild leader and raid leader who plays a Priest. He is telling me I should get into the addon "Clique" but I have tried and I didn't feel comfortable using it. I would always mess up and heal the wrong person or use the wrong spell. We're progressing through Ulduar and are attempting some hard modes such as XT-002 and Flame Leviathon 3 Towers and he wants everyone to do everything in their power to increase their performance. I decided I would check out mouse over macros and see if they were any good. I used them in addition to my Grid add on and they worked fantastic. Now that you know the back story of my question, Elitist Jerks, what should I do? He's insisting I get into Clique as it will up my performance ten-fold, apparently. Do you feel mouse over macros are on par with add ons and mods?
I've had similar discussions with healers. I target-queue (because I've been doing it for so long). That means once the heal starts casting on the current target, I switch targets (by left-clicking on Grid) and prepare to queue the next heal before the previous one finishes. I also feel that healing is more responsive (for me) when I press action buttons or hotkeys with my left hand, especially when hitting F1 to target myself. I tried different setups, but it was just too much to remap in my brain. I do have a mouseover for dispel, but I don't think I could ever feel comfortable using it for my most used spells (of which there are more than the three buttons my mouse provides).
But I'm not opposed to Clique. It just definitely isn't my style, and there would be no improvement in my healing ability. I'm actually a little curious as to whether having a right-hand dominant play style would diminish my ability to move my character more accurately or see things on my screen faster (camera repositioning).
Anyway, I'd tell your guild leader that it's much more important to play the way you feel the most responsive. Clique may never feel right for you, and no amount of shoving it down your throat will help. In fact, it will set you back if you are a rhythm healer (many of us get into a rhythm when we heal with our actions/keystrokes and it's very difficult to break this). This is especially true in raid healing.
So if you want a mini-census, I feel I play with some high quality healers. Three of us use a leftclicktarget-queuing setup (holy pally and two priest), and at least two use Clique (resto druid and disc priest).
Moral of the story is whatever you work the best with is the way you should go, and only you can decide that. Just try different things out and see, but remember that any change you make might take some time to get used to before you see any results. I also wouldn't recommend changing play styles during progression unless you see an immediate improvement because hitting the wrong spells while you're trying to relearn your whole interface on new hard modes sounds like my idea of a Bad Idea.
I actually don't know how latency will affect spamming. If I target someone and start spamming my PWS button while I am still in the GCD triggered by the previous PWS, does my game wait until my GCD is over and then send a message to the server that I am casting a PWS on my target? Or does my game send a message to the server every time I push the PWS button, and the server decides if I am still in the GCD and whether or not the PWS gets casted? If it is the first, then I agree that a 100 ms latency will definitely decrease the HPS by around 10%, but if it is the second I think the latency won't actually matter.
The last time I really tested this was when I helped a guild doing Brutallus. There is also some testing on this somewhere here on EJ that was also written around the late BC time. You can, however, definitely still precast, that is chain two, say, Greater Heals, where you start the second GH shortly before the first lands in order to compensate for lag/latency.
The old mechanics was, however, that if you are too early, you pay a small time penalty because then the server tells your client that you are not yet ready to do this, which is why carefully timed precasting with Quartz (for example) tended to yield better results than pure button-mashing.
Now as for spamming instants, the story may be a bit different, especially since you have the GcD down to 1s for shield spamming and have no cast bar at the same time.
Unless someone has already done it recently, some testing seems in order.
Last edited by Hegen : 07/29/09 at 5:03 AM.
Reason: Typos R us
Originally Posted by Pewsey
Many of our snakes are 3m+ in size. They'll just take the lawnmower off you and beat the shit out of you with it to make you tender, then bite you and eat you.
Yesterday we progressed Iron Council 25M Hard. We used DK on Steelbreaker, druid on Molgeim and dps warr "holding" Brundir. Heals were 2 druids (one on DK, other on Molgeim tank), 2 holy priests (one on DK and helping Brundir tank, me healing raid), two paladins (one handling Fusion Punches, other on Molgeim tank). In P3, we switched to both paladins on tank, priests and druids raid. Kill order was Molgeim (we stopped dps at 5% and waited for Overload), then pulled Brundir and Steelbreaker together, raid on top of them except for 5 people standing further with NR aura to soak Static Disruption, P3 same.
1) Our MT was often oneshotted, because he got Fusion Punch right when Rune of Power appeared under Steelbreaker. Is it just a bad luck, or something we have to deal with?
2) Tanks in P3 were often killed by High Voltage right after Soulstone/Rebirth. Our druids did not have glyphed Rebirth - I presume this is mandatory. Should we also use soulstones, although glyph does not work when placed on other targets (and proper communication to place shields/casts instants), or exclusively Rebirth?
3) Can Guardian Spirit prevent death from Meltdown?
4) During P3, raid took extreme damage from 75-100% High Voltage (2 Supercharges and 1-2 Electrical Charges). Sometimed a soaker died on Static Disruption. I did not find a way to get better HPS than PoH-CoH-2x Flash, is there any other way how to increase HPS (I had serious mana problems while healing in P3, but I think I can solve it myself)?
3) Can Guardian Spirit prevent death from Meltdown?
In 10 man, no. I doubt this is different in 25 man. GS doesn't prevent death - it reacts to damage leading to death. With meltdown, the tank just dies.
Originally Posted by Pewsey
Many of our snakes are 3m+ in size. They'll just take the lawnmower off you and beat the shit out of you with it to make you tender, then bite you and eat you.
I use Clique for dispelling and disease cleansing, otherwise I use mouse-over macros and just Grid. I've tried most things, and this just works best for me. I'd be very weary of switching to Clique just because someone tells you it works better. Mouse-over macros does the same as Clique does. it makes you only have to press one button or use a single click to heal.
A good tip is to try Clique on farm-bosses to try to get comfortable with it, since your performance on those bosses don't really matter. If it works better, then great.
Yesterday we progressed Iron Council 25M Hard. We used DK on Steelbreaker, druid on Molgeim and dps warr "holding" Brundir. Heals were 2 druids (one on DK, other on Molgeim tank), 2 holy priests (one on DK and helping Brundir tank, me healing raid), two paladins (one handling Fusion Punches, other on Molgeim tank). In P3, we switched to both paladins on tank, priests and druids raid. Kill order was Molgeim (we stopped dps at 5% and waited for Overload), then pulled Brundir and Steelbreaker together, raid on top of them except for 5 people standing further with NR aura to soak Static Disruption, P3 same.
1) Our MT was often oneshotted, because he got Fusion Punch right when Rune of Power appeared under Steelbreaker. Is it just a bad luck, or something we have to deal with?
2) Tanks in P3 were often killed by High Voltage right after Soulstone/Rebirth. Our druids did not have glyphed Rebirth - I presume this is mandatory. Should we also use soulstones, although glyph does not work when placed on other targets (and proper communication to place shields/casts instants), or exclusively Rebirth?
3) Can Guardian Spirit prevent death from Meltdown?
4) During P3, raid took extreme damage from 75-100% High Voltage (2 Supercharges and 1-2 Electrical Charges). Sometimed a soaker died on Static Disruption. I did not find a way to get better HPS than PoH-CoH-2x Flash, is there any other way how to increase HPS (I had serious mana problems while healing in P3, but I think I can solve it myself)?
1) Hmm, not entirely sure on this one (/sigh). We have a Druid (so a bit higher HP pool than regular) MT-ing Steelbreaker, and he does drop extremely low after some FP's in P2 (Brundir + SB up), but he never gets one-shotted. I would advise simply popping a CD (probably IBF), if you have access to a DK, whenever this happens. Again, not sure on this one.
2) We tried a lot of glyph-variation in the past (SS and Rebirth), but we do it pretty much straightforward now. Every little tweak helps, of course, but what's key here is that the tank times his res (be it using the SS or accepting the Rebirth) exactly after a High Voltage tick, so he has time to pop a HS/recieve a heal. Comm-wise - yes, our tank does call it before accepting, so we all pretty much know when to expect him coming back.
3) No.
4) (Disclaimer: I haven't healed the fight as Holy) The soakers will indeed be quite squishy in P3. You should aim for high HP chars, and you should always keep an extra eye on them and top'em up. The soakers used to die on us as well, when I was tank healing. When I switched to raid, though, I found it extremely effective to simply juggle PWS' on them (trying to time it against Static Disruption), and always keep my PoM bouncing there - they've rarely dropped low since. As for Holy, I can't offer much advice, except the usual "PoM on CD", and maybe Renew on the soakers.
A good tip is to try Clique on farm-bosses to try to get comfortable with it, since your performance on those bosses don't really matter. If it works better, then great.
Or better still, go do some battlegrounds to try it out - it matters even less if you let people die, and the fact that people will die makes it a better learning experience, if you try new techniques on farm bosses you may feel that you're doing OK (because everyone survives) when really you haven't got the hang of it yet.
But seriously - I really can't see that there's much to distinguish between Clique-style modifier-clicking, and using keybound mouseover macros. Personally I use a mixture (I ran out of modifiers I could comfortably use for Clique so I use mouseover keystrokes for a few other spells), either way it's move the mouse a short distance, point, and press something. Neither technique is going to provide any great difference in potential performance over the other, it's really just what suits you more comfortably.
I prefer mouse-over macros with Grid. I used to target queue as Blash does but found that I was much more responsive with mouseover macros. I also gave Clique a try but was unimpressed.
Explain to your guild leader that your method is essentially the same. You hover over a unit frame and press a button. He presses a mouse button and you press a keyboard button. The only fundamental difference is which button is being pressed. It's unreasonable for him to try to force you to use Clique if it isn't comfortable for you, but it is reasonable for him to make suggestions that may help.
07/26/09, 1:43 PM
but I have a quick question that could be answered. I am having a debate with my guild leader and raid leader who plays a Priest. He is telling me I should get into the addon "Clique" but I have tried and I didn't feel comfortable using it. I would always mess up and heal the wrong person or use the wrong spell. We're progressing through Ulduar and are attempting some hard modes such as XT-002 and Flame Leviathon 3 Towers and he wants everyone to do everything in their power to increase their performance. I decided I would check out mouse over macros and see if they were any good. I used them in addition to my Grid add on and they worked fantastic. Now that you know the back story of my question, Elitist Jerks, what should I do? He's insisting I get into Clique as it will up my performance ten-fold, apparently. Do you feel mouse over macros are on par with add ons and mods?
