I run as holy MT/raid healing all Ulduar 25 and I didn't have problem with mana. I will try discipline next week .

i want to ask :
How many healers do you use for Yogg-Saron and do you use decurse/dispell and so on on p2?


Constantius asked about Razorscale fights:
We used healing setup: 2 holypriest; 2shaman; 1paladin and 1 druid
p1 - Add tank healer + helping on raid
-Tank-renew+shield+ PoM(on every CD) from time to time GH ; raid - mostly FL+shield; renew on other tank; lightwell
p2 - all switch MT healing

Mimiron is just the most taxing fight I've ever healed in. Nothing so far in Ulduar compares even the slightest. Massive raidwide damage, lots of random burst, CD rotations, your own health dropping dangerously low, Laser Barrage, Mines, Rockets etc. It's so easy to just focus on healthbars since they are all going down pretty fast, but that will make you die to something you should have run out of, or not run into.

My tactic is usually to flash/binding heal, then use Serendipity to fire off two hasted PoH. Trying to have a PoM bouncing as much as possible. Basically just trying to use as much mana as possible, usually also a fiend, since I can usually regenerate most of it back in phase 3. It's so easy for someone to die though. I also try to pop Divine Hymn, but since we have 1 healer responsable for 1 group, I fear the smartheal will "forget" one in my group. How are you getting through phase 2 and 4?

Also, B&S is pretty neat in this fight. Both to help people get out of Laser Barrage, but also for kiting in phase 3.

The first night we were having a ton of issues on Mimiron because I kept letting my group die. Usually I'd fall behind when my group was being targeted and if we were targeted more than once it was pretty much over. The next night in we changed our healing assignments so that instead of being responsible for "my" group, I was responsible for the groups on either side of me. We did the same with the other priest and a resto druid so that we overlapped. Then we used two resto shaman and a holy paladin doing "clean up" on anyone who dropped lower than the rest of their group. When I wasn't losing any casting time to the laser it felt pretty trivial to keep up the two groups that I wasn't in. We went from losing 2-3 people every P2 to getting out of it without any real scares.

Also, I play pretty aggressively in that phase since P3 is so easy on healing. It feels kind of like P2 Illidan; the fight is really won or lost during that phase since the rest of the fight is mostly just about positioning and DPS.

We had troubles yesterday night on Deconstructor.

We run with 2 tanks, 7 heals (1 paladin, 2 priest, and 4 shamans, because that's what we had available).
Our two main problems were :
1/ People were dying. Not lot of them, but a few. One bad bomb on a healer just before the big aoe, or such unlucky events like this, and it was enough disturbance for us to loose one or 2 people.
2/ Not enough dps. In the very few tries were we had (nearly) no dead, we reached the enraged timer a short time after the 3rd heart exposed phase, and the boss was around 15%.

Healer setup was :
Paladin on MT.
Disc priest on MT + shields on raid.
One holy priest and 4 shamans on raid.
We first tried with 2 holy priests (one still on MT), but the MT was not stable enough, and one shaman had to help. So I switched to disc.

We had 3 groups of raiders : one for melees, and 2 for distance + healers (each other in range of heal, but not of bombs).
Melees stayed on boss / heart for the whole fight. Casters started on heart for the heart phase, then moved to kill the adds.

What kind of setup do you use ? Is it normal to have a (very) few dead people ?

I've sent constantius a private message with my following suggestions, though I'm not sure he actually reseived it, as my "sent" folder is pretty much empty.

My priest ist primarily a ranged damage dealer and my healing experience isn't that good...Ulduar 10 man and Naxx 25 mainly. But I didn't see anyone considering dropping Divine Providence and Guardian Sprit for improved HPM and Soul Warding.

I dislike GuS for it's low uptime. It might be a life saver, but if you think about using Body & Soul there should be no way around Soul Warding as you'll get to the low end on mana otherwise.

So this is what I thought about: 21/50/0
The missing point could be put into Empowered Renew, Lightwell or Test of Faith.

It's basicly a CoH-build with much cheaper Instant-Spells and much more powerful PW:S, but 10% less throughput on group healing.

Cheers!

ps: If you want to use Renew alot, this might be an option, althought I'd prefer the version above.

This is more of a general question about Ulduar than Priest related, but

My guild currently runs a very heavy healing raid, and we almost always have 7-9 healers (3-4 shaman, 1 resto druid 2 holy priests, 1 disc priest (me) and a holy paladin)

Well for one, I know that Disc isn't supposed to do extrordinary on meters, and that a lot of our healing comes through mitigation etc etc. I know how the basics of the class works.

However, even considering that, it seems that my healing is awfully awfully low for what I would consider it to be a normal amount. I usually average around 1k-1.2k HPS. I'm not always last on meters, but when it comes to effective HPS I'm always well behind there. Like on Hodir I was sitting around 1.1k whereas every other healer was sitting around 1800+.

Could the reason for my HPS being so low be because we run so healer heavy and my heals are just being a ton of over heal? Even with the mana regen nerf I have almost no mana problems, so I typically find myself just spamming the hell out of Flash Heal and using Penance every CD and PRoM as well.

I just recently switched from a Resto Druid healing to a Disc Priest healing, but I knew there was going to be a difference, but it seems like I just constantly overheal with overheal running 50% and just not being overly effective.

Sometimes I just spam Flash Heal for Divine Aegis procs on the Tank, is that a good or bad idea?

Also, in an unrelated note, will my guild have the DPS requirements to clear Ulduar if we run so healer heavy? We've only done the first couple of bosses (Up to Ariyia or whatever the panther lady is) and the DPS is at times a little lower than average, should we consider dropping healers for more DPS?

Thanks

Except fights in which I clearly prefer Disc (i.e. Razorscale or General Vezax) I did all bosses as Holy (raid healing) and did not encounter any serious mana problems even without putting points in Healing Prayers.


We brought four healers (one of each class) when killing Yogg-Saron, simply because we were massively lacking damage when we tried to bring five healers in earlier trials.

I am eager to know if someone did the fight with a setup that contained more healers.

Disc priest HPS are never going to match other classes/specs on meters due to the fact that Disc is a mitigation spec. There have been many other posts made on this topic, but the main thing to keep in mind is the large amounts of damage that are soaked by Disc's strong PW:S and DA procs.

Hi I'm an discipline priest in a Ulduar raiding guild. We have downed whole 10man, and 8 bosses in 25man.

This is from our Ignis fight yesterday (25man):



I was using mostly PoM and Shields, I have the glyph so that my PW:S gives 20% healing. I forgot to take screenshots of which spells i used and stuff, I'm sorry, but this might give you a little perspective how powerful a discipline priest can be. I was basicly just rolling shields before everyone got Flam Jets, which also give me alot of mana backs. When two-three shields go off at the same time, and rapture is not on cooldown, you get the mana back from every shield. I'm not sure if this works unlimited, but i've gotten some really big mana gains sometimes, from 10 shields +, probebly more. I should have also screenshotted mana back from that fight, would have been nice to see.

Anyways if you count both my absorbs and shields, I'm up to 2350k effective healing.

For all other boss fights, discipline is a strong tree, i'm both very effective healing an tank and also raid healing. Because of the new PW:S without cooldown, i'm having an instant which "heals" for about 9000 (Shield absorbs round 7500 and it heals for about 1500, this is raidbuffed with flask). I don't think there is anything in the game atm that can compete with that. The "heal" also lasts for 30sec, which is also good. The only real problem an discpriest have now, is when other priests uses your Weakned Soul or when they just generally have the Weakned Soul debuf, and I have to heal them. A penance worth of 10k+ is usually good for that though!

I have no itentions to change my discipline specc at this state, I'm in love with it. I've healed with an paladin partner whole ulduar 10man, so atleast I know I'm good for that!

(Yeah as you know, it's guessed absorbs. Meaning, they could be totally wrong, or 100% correct. No way of knowing, I assume they are somewhat correct though)

Hope this gave you some insight of what a discipline priest can do.

We used 5 healers on Yogg for the entire fight. p1 healing is a joke and p2 isn't that bad. All our healers were decursing, really. If you don't dispel that shit it really cuts down on dps time on crushers, mele getting to portals, etc. We had one healer (me) go into the portals with the mele and it worked out really well. p3 it was our shaman only decursing, everyone else was spamming the shit out of the tanks hoping they wouldn't die. You can roll with 5 healers easily. (We tried it with 6-7 but the dps up top was a little slow).

After the mele started on the brain I topped them off and went upstairs again to help dispel magic/disease.

For those who loves Body & Soul, I do really understand the utility of the talent. But how do you "cooperate" with Disc. Priest, if you have any ?
I tried Disc yesterday for Deconstructor (we were short of tank healers), and I ended spamming PW:S when the MT didn't need lots of heal, saving a BT hasted Penance (+GH ?) to catch up if needed.

This means that lots of people had the weakened soul debuff before they got the bomb. I could use PW:S a lot less, but then I would have been spamming flash (or possibly POH), resulting the a lesser HPS and to the tank loosing the grace stacks. And one advantage of PW:S is that you don't compete with other heals...

I was primarily tank healing, when our holy paladin wasn't enough. But for a significant part of the time, he was able to cover the tank alone, so I helped with the raid (he may got some chain heals bounces from our shamans however). In other words, I was the half healer in the one and half which were needed for us.

But your answer is clear for me : you gives priority to Body and Soul, which is meaningful for me for this fights.
I'm not sure however I would want Body and Soul to "replace" disc shields on other fights (Razorscale is the only other one I tried, and I would prefer preemtive shielding from disc to decrease the death probability, as one guy low on moving (which they shouldn't) is less total damage than light bomb).

I actually preferred disc for healing on XT. I think our strats must differ though as we spread out in 4 groups with XT in the middle so there's no movement needed for light bomb and very little movement for gravity. I was able to pre-shield people before tantrum, plus still use POH and POM. The shield and burst healing from penance made issues like light bomb immediately before tantrum very easy to handle.

any ideas pn how to get it to show on healbot ?

i have read that simply adding "stone grip" as a custom debuff didn't work for some people

Also if you're using grid, GridStatusRaidDebuff is being updated pretty well. It has slag pot, stone grip, and light bomb.

I'd just leave the melee alone at best. I mean the ranged probably shouldn't be running anywhere, we've only had like a million months to practice spacing 10 yards apart from eachother.

I've been doing some analysis on the Holy Concentration talent (Holy Concentration - Spell - World of Warcraft) and I'm not convinced the talent is very good. As in, probably not worth taking. I culled a random sampling of holy priests from Ulduar fights on wowmeteronline.com. The estimated uptime was a bit low because it can't detect buff refreshes, but in general I saw between 15% and 50% uptime on the buff. For people with Empowered Renew, the uptime was between 30% and 50%. Without it, uptime was between 15% and 35%.

Note that this is different from saying, "You should take one point in empowered renew to proc holy concentration". I don't believe that's correct. Just because you can proc holy concentration with renew doesn't mean renew is worth casting in the first place.

Some other data from the records:

• I saw more specs using Empowered Renew than not.
• Almost no one cast Greater Heal. You want to save Serendipity for Prayer of Healing.
• Glyph of Prayer of Healing is in the 1.5% to 5% of total healing range. It is very good.

At any rate, back to Holy Concentration. Lets estimate a 40% uptime with 1200 spirit and 1000 int. This is a bit generous but not too much. The full spirit regeneration rate with 1200 spirit and 1000 int is 218 m/5. That means 100% uptime holy concentration is worth 109 m/5. At 40% uptime, the talent is worth 43.6 m/5. That's slightly under 15 m/5 per point, and around 2000 mana in a 4 minute fight for all 3 points. That's worse than Inner Focus, incidentally, unless the fight is just under 3 or 6 minutes. And again, this assumes 40% uptime. With only 20% uptime, Inner Focus is always, and few people are taking it these days.

I'm coming around to Body and Soul as extremely good in a few fights (Vezax and Yogg-Saron come to mind) and just generally all-around useful. Mimiron and Vezax also really want Healing Focus. And while I feel like I can live without Healing Prayers, the talent is clearly good. So my feeling is actually that the proper holy subspec is to ignore all talents that work with renew, including Holy Concentration.

Comparing Holy Concentration to Healing Prayers, each point in Healing Prayers saves you 160 mana from each cast of Prayer of Healing. If you cast Prayer of Healing more than once every 50 seconds, it beats a point in Holy Concentration with 40% uptime. With 20% uptime, you only need to cast a prayer every 100 seconds for Healing Prayers to win. I believe this is true for almost every fight in Ulduar.

With that in mind, I believe this should be the typical base spec for Holy: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

There are 3 unspent points and its debatable where they should go. The options are Inner Focus, Lightwell, Blessed Resilience, and Holy Concentration. My intuition is to try one point in Lightwell and two in Blessed Resilience, as Lightwell is at least useful on stressful mana fights like Vezax. But maybe it's too much of a one trick pony. The mana efficiency alternative is 1 point in Inner Focus, 2 in Holy Concentration. While Holy Conc is bad by comparison, it's not outright terrible. It's just 3 times as bad as meditation.

Does anyone have numbers how the crit part of Inner Focus works with Divine Hymn? I'm not able to link our WMO/WWS but it's showing 12-16% higher crit on Divine Hymn for our healing priests. The sample size is small, around 50 casts. The first wave crits much more often so I'm guessing it only applies to the first wave of heals but it would be nice to know for sure since 12-16% seems high in that case.

While I have no reason to make a case against Body and Soul (I can see its usefulness), in no way do I find it mandatory. It certainly isn't mandatory at the expense of Renew, and the choice between these two abilities is a serious one some priests will need to make.

However, instead of allowing this beatdown on Renew to continue, I'll offer you an alternative.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9806

Greater heal is slipping away again in Ulduar. I only use it when I have Serendipity ready and there's someone who is suddenly needing an 11000 heal (and PoH isn't a better choice). I would much rather see points taken from Divine Fury than from Renew. You can in fact have the best of both worlds. While I'm not likely to spec this way just yet (hard modes soon may change this), I want to present it as an alternative.

I get the impression that a lot of people are unfairly dismissing Renew. The reality is 3.1 has made it into a more reactive spell, one that you don't wait three seconds to see work, and the way the damage has been in Ulduar (hit and forget), it almost always has a chance to work. It's pretty consistently ticking for 2-3 times out of 5, and I'm fine with that. Why? Because I've been casting it a lot. Maybe too much. Empowered Renew is too fun, too valuable not to use that way. It's okay to expect it to overheal 40% because when it's overhealing, your attention is elsewhere. It's about increasing raid coverage, proccing flash heals and holy concentration, and seeing the results after the fight on Recount. You'll really be amazed with aggressive Renew healing. It's simply a lot of fun (and more powerful in the 10-man setting).

You are still missing Test of Faith, which is one of the best talents we have available. It's almost as good as Spiritual Healing. You are right that Greater Heal is getting worse, but you don't buy that many points by dropping Divine Fury. In theory you could cut Empowered Healing, which is roughly 15% extra healing to Flash and Binding Heal for 5 points.

I suppose you could try this spec, which focused on group heals and renews at the expense of Greater Heal. http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...0&version=9806

I'm dubious though.

I am curious how people are approaching glyphing at this point. As I see it, FH and GS are pretty much mandatory, which leaves the third spot open for either CoH or PoH; this has been a large point of discussion between myself and the other holy priest in my guild. I have two WWS parses (before they fixed it to show individual encounters):

Wow Web Stats
Wow Web Stats

These parses were done before we had a GS glyph on our server, so I had both CoH and GS glyphs. I should also note, these were my first two nights in Ulduar, so I wasn't quite used to Serendipity PoHs yet. Looking at these numbers, however, my glyph of PoH yielded me 222,618 healing from parse 1 and 124,396 healing from parse 2. CoH total healing was 5,026,408 for parse 1 and 2,406,097 for parse 2. 1/6 of these numbers yields 837734 and 401016, respectively. Now, these parses are through Auriaya (I had glyph of GS after these nights), so I haven't tested the glyph of PoH on something like Mimiron P2 (where people aren't topped off much and the HoT can tick for much longer). However, based on what I'm seeing, the glyph of CoH is yielding far more healing than the glyph of PoH.

EDIT: I don't want to suggest this is extensive testing by any means, but it is suggestive to me. I'm curious what other peoples' experiences with this are.

Well if you're choosing between POH and COH glyphs, I think COH is the clear winner. While COH has a CD, it is much more versatile and will likely amount to a larger portion of your healing. There's only a few encounters where POH is likely to out perform COH.

However, I think the bigger choice is between POH and Flash Heal. I ended up going with POH since if I'm specced holy, it's generally going to be to take advantage of POH in an AOE heavy encounter. Else I've found disc to be more beneficial.