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Old 10/13/09, 3:06 PM   #766
Carnathagia
Piston Honda
 
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Troll Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Br0kenghost View Post
I like having the haste for the faster ticks of Renew
Haste will allow you to have more renews up on more people by lowering the GCD, but its not going to make it tick faster. Spellpower is going to give the most throughput bonus, assuming you aren't overhealing.

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Old 10/13/09, 5:33 PM   #767
Br0kenghost
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Priest
 
Medivh
...

Last edited by Br0kenghost : 11/09/09 at 1:53 AM. Reason: ...

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Old 10/14/09, 10:11 AM   #768
Taoofss
Glass Joe
 
Human Priest
 
Medivh
Originally Posted by rooj View Post
My personal experience with healing anub10 on hard has been much more favorable to Disc than Holy.

Not only do I find shields useful to maintain low health, but a disc Holy Nova (with some DA procs) is perfect to help keep up my entire party without much help even in the face of penetrating cold. Besides, when things get hairy, and this applies to both specs, I usually pop DH and by itself that spell (with inner focus) can keep up with the dmg in phase 3.
Personally, I've found just the opposite to be true. Prior to entering phase 3, I tend to renew the group I'm not in, holy nova to keep my group up, flash the people with debuffs, PoM people who dip low, PoH if I fall behind, and CoH on cool down. Holy just has so many tools for different situations, I personally prefer it over disc healing in phase 3.

Last edited by Taoofss : 10/14/09 at 10:19 AM. Reason: SP Error

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Old 10/14/09, 11:24 AM   #769
rooj
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Priest
 
Madoran
I've tried healing as Holy on 10 man Anub Hard and it usually extends the fight longer than when i was disc. Extending the fight is a big no no as the adds will eventually insta gib the add tank. This is an instance where higher HPS doesn't do the raid much good, since the lower the health of the group, the faster the fight goes. And remember for those who discount disc, do they have a pally using BoSanc? The 3% damage reduction is nothing to sneeze at, especially for large raid damage fights.

That said, it is gratifying to me to hear that people are able to use each spec nearly equally effectively.

I have dual specced into holy, but find fewer and fewer fights to use it on. I suspect this may have more to do with raid make-up than any shortcomings of the spec itself. We usually run 2 Resto druids (in 25s), and adding a 3rd hot class just results in someone's heals not being effective. I think any discussion on specs and appropriateness for fights has to depend on the raid makeup. I find it a bit ironic that i do much better as disc on NR Beasts Hard mode (25) than when i was holy.

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Old 10/14/09, 11:57 AM   #770
Fallenangel
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Chromaggus (EU)
Drawing conclusions from Anub-10 don't mean a lot since the fight is a lot easier than the 25 version. I don't see anyone going holy on the 25, since all the nice AoE healing of holy is worthless there.
As with any case it is dependent on healing setup etc.

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Old 10/14/09, 9:14 PM   #771
Miarose
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Runetotem
I find the discussion of disc vs. holy healing on Twins hardmodes very interesting. Be it 10 man or 25 man, I think disc has a great niche in this fight.
My guild runs AOE healer heavy, so having a disc priest shielding the raid, and bringing the 3% damage mitigation to everyone seems like a win situation. For what it's worth, even though recountguessedabsorbs isn't the best for this fight, I had over 2.5 mil absorbs done, due to the consitant damage being taken. I don't have to be as concerned about the spike damage, because my holy priests are able to quickly handle it all.

Is the fight really a matter of raw HPS, when a priest shielding is ensuring that the damage is mitigated before it even happens? I think the synergy is quite beneficial.

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Old 10/14/09, 9:28 PM   #772
moowalk
Don Flamenco
 
Troll Priest
 
Khaz'goroth
Recount guessed absorbs isn't "not the best" for this fight. It's worthless. Every time you absorb a light/dark pulse while under the effect of PW:S it's counted as PW:S 'healing'.

For a quick sanity check, multiply the number of glyph of PW:S heals by your typical shield amount (8k) and see if they're remotely close.

Your 2.5 million absorbs done would correspond to 312 shields cast during the fight. Your maximum number of PW:S casts with a 6 minute enrage is 360.

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Old 10/14/09, 10:24 PM   #773
Kashir
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Draenei Priest
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by Miarose View Post
Is the fight really a matter of raw HPS, when a priest shielding is ensuring that the damage is mitigated before it even happens? I think the synergy is quite beneficial.
You misunderstand. On a fight like Twin Valkyr, the mitigation of your shields can be treated effectively as raw HPS. Your shields are consumed almost as soon as they're cast, so so the "health buffer" factor of PWS spam (which is so valuable on spike damage fights like Northrend Beasts or Jarraxus) is all but meaningless on Twin Valkyr.

You're competing directly with Holy (and Resto Druids / Shaman) on your HPS output potential, and it's improbable that you'll win. Unfortunately logging tools are all but worthless on this fight, so it's impossible for anyone to provide logs as hard evidence either way. We can only look at the spells available to each spec and rely on theorycraft.

That's not to say that Disc is worthless; the 3% mitigation is excellent for raids with no Prot Paladin, and depending on your strat Disc can perform well as spike damage healers for orb soakers.

Edit: And to be fair, it's not like there's some massive 200% gap between Disc and Holy. If you're more comfortable with bubble-spam and it's working for you, then by all means stick with it.

Last edited by Kashir : 10/14/09 at 10:29 PM.

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Old 10/15/09, 12:33 AM   #774
Miarose
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Runetotem
I see what you're saying. No we do not have a prot pally, so I bring that utility. It just seems to me that 3 holy priests, resto shammy, and a resto druid would be over kill. It may also be that healing isn't as tough as it should be, since my guild is insisting on cheesing the encounter.

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Old 10/15/09, 9:05 AM   #775
graigh
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Nordrassil (EU)
In 25 mans on Twins heroic Disc is actually very valuable as buffer healer.

Although raw HPS of raid healing specs is higher very often they need a longer reaction time during which that DPS could die. A quick shield gives them 2-3 seconds to react appropriately OR for their HOTs to replenish the HP of the player in danger of dying.

A quick calculation at my modest gear levels (average i226) shows that PW:S breaks down as follows:

Shield: 7000
Glyph: 1400
Glyph crit: 420 (@30%)

Total 8820 healing/prevention at 1sec GCD.
So ideally in 11 sec i can throw 9 shields + POM = 100-105k healing = 9.4k HPS with very little over-healing.

I see druids and shamans and holy priests doing bigger numbers but their over-healing is much larger as well.

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Old 10/15/09, 9:30 AM   #776
tedv
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Goblin Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
I've done Twin Valkyrs as both holy and discipline, and my impression is that holy just flat out has more throughput given the spells you want to cast. The ideal healing setup is probably 1 paladin, 1 druid, 1 shaman, 1 discipline priest, 3 holy priest. Use a druid and three priests to soak and give the fourth priest a holy nova group. Of course, the fight isn't THAT hard. There's a lot of raid makeups that work. We've done 3x Discipline priests on the fight for the last two weeks, largely because it didn't seem worth the trouble to respec holy and then back to discipline for Anub'arak.

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Old 10/20/09, 2:29 AM   #777
reload104
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Korialstrasz
I highly agree with graigh, the disc priest provides that "buffer" so that others may get to the one needing of heals. I don't agree on having 3 disc priests tho, isn't that a little redundant?

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Old 10/20/09, 11:04 AM   #778
rooj
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Priest
 
Madoran
I am trying to get a sense of whether or not i am performing well enough as holy.

I almost exclusively run disc, which isn't a problem since we have an abundance of trees healing in the raid. However, I do need to learn how to heal as holy since there are occasions where having the healer flexibility is more important than the dps flexibility.

Anyhow, so last night on our first kill of 25 man Heroic Twins, i was holy for about 65% of the attempts (and the kill).

I can't help but notice the absolutely gaudy numbers the druids are putting up, (9-11k HPS on WoLs), while my own numbers were about in the range of 6.8k-7k HPS. PoMs were about 40+% of my heals, then CoH for 20%, then Holy Nova for about 15% and the rest were renews, etc. My holy spec is not a maxed out raid healing spec, and my gear set is still more suited for disc than holy. But I wasn't clear on whether I should have been hitting Druid numbers or not. We 6 healed our kill, though our pally died about 70% in.

I don't have time to cast nearly anything but CoH, PoMs, and HNs, in fact I know my renews were low since they seem to be a waste of GCDs when the raid damage was really pouring out.

While I know there is room for improvement, i am trying to get a sense of whether or not i am in the right ballpark.

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Old 10/20/09, 11:51 AM   #779
Starfire
Honorary Toastr
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Dragonblight
Healing meters are bad.

Anyways, don't focus on what Druids are good at, focus on what Holy priests excel at. You have the ability to quickly burst aoe heal, this is your strength and you're unmatched... the druid HoTs will negate the periodic damage; but your heals will counter the burst damage in the encounter.

Also, I am willing to bet your Holy Novas were probably good bit overheals, anyways we can't help you without a WoL or WMO or what not.

Originally Posted by arison View Post
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

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Old 10/20/09, 12:23 PM   #780
Liths
Piston Honda
 
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Human Priest
 
Emerald Dream (EU)
Regardless, around 7k effective hps sounds right to me for twins. I wouldn't expect to be able to compete with druids in terms of raw hps on a fight were rejuvenation/wg works so well. I don't really think the log would tell us that much.

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