The point is that the proc on the IED is worth a giant chunk of regen that you lose if you go with the ESD. To balance the two, you would need ~ 5k intellect. This will never happen, so IED is best unless you absolutely can't spend your mana.
I definitely agree with that point. I'm using the IED myself and don't have any plans to change.
0:30'02.534 Thedeacon gains 600 Mana from Mana Restore. #43470
0:30'19.445 Thedeacon gains 600 Mana from Mana Restore. #44638
IED does not have a 45 second internal cooldown but a 15 second cooldown. It also has a 5% chance to proc. That means that if you are spamming PW:S on a 1 second GCDd then the average length between procs will be 35 seconds, for 85.7 mp5. If you look at your log and see how many spells per second you actually cast (I cast about 0.49 per second) then you'll probably get an average of about 55 seconds per proc for around 54.5 mp5.
An idiot is someone who would rather be treated like an idiot than called an idiot
Looked through all 12 pages and haven't seen anything posted about this yet, except in the OP.
Enchant for boots? Right now I'm using Icewalker for the obvious boost to Crit (yes I know the hit is wasted), but I'm told now that I should have Spirit on them. Looking at the numbers, I believe that Icewalker is still the best choice as I have no mana/regen problems on any of the Ulduar fights.
While I don't know the math between Icewalker and 18 spirit on boots, I can strongly suggest getting Tuskarr's Vitality. The stamina is always nice for hardmodes, but the running speed can and most likely will save lives. It may not have an obvious beneficial effect if all you care about is your character sheet, but you will learn to love the enchant.
I did not see it mentioned, but according to rawr this is going to be viable soon.
Right now we get mana back from rapture = 2.5% mana when pw:S pops. When I did a speculation of gear I would get from ulduar10 and badge gear I will soon have over 27k mana buffed with the 10 man buffs I should have.
Mathmatically at ~26,640 mana pool you begin to gain mana back for casting PW:S if you have the Spark of Hope trinket this number becomes ~25.3k. I know spark of hope isn't ideal to use. The point I'm making is that our mana pools will be Gaining mana from PW:S.
I didnt see anyone mention this. the math needs to be 2.5% of total mana > cost of power shield= # mana net gained. with Pw:S w/o a cooldown for all of us, we should examine the viablity of a massive mana pool for this purpose as well.
(my 25.3k+ target mana pool assumes i have my spark of hope which i don't forsee my current priest replacing soon, the number would be slightly higher for everyone else but I don't think it would be enough to matter much.)
I belive the formula I used to determine this was [ (cost of pw:S)/2.5 ]*100 = required mana pool for pw:S to cost 0 mana. this means after 26,640 for every 100 mana you have you gain 2.5 per casting of pw shield that pops. the spark of hope allows you to change the 26.6k mana to 25.3k but the mana gain will remain constant at 100MP=2.5 MP gained per shield consumed.
PW:S mana cost reaching a net of zero with rapture isn't particularly significant because of the cooldown on rapture. The only way around the cooldown is to have multiple shields "pop" simultaneously when the rapture cooldown is available, is likely a bug, and can't be done more often than the cooldown. Mana isn't a major concern on any fight once sufficiently geared anyway, so you'd be better off getting more throughput via spellpower than trying to stack int.
Mana isn't a major concern on any fight once sufficiently geared anyway
Not quite so. The amount of regen you need is obviously related to the amount of shields you decide to spam, and there are several 25-man HMs where I could use even a bit more mana than I currently have [28k+ raid buffed]. A counter-argument to this is that I might as well go Holy and heal more efficiently, however, if you need the benefits of a disc in the raid [for example, having a portion of your raid dropping to 70% HP instead of 40% on Freya 3D] and still take up a non-tank healer spot, a compromise has to be made.
But I agree to the main point - Intellect, past the threshold where Rapture returns more mana than the PW:S cost itself, isn't particularly stronger than usual, considering that Rapture is on a 12s CD.
LE: As an anecdote - due to a different healing setup, this week I had to heal Mimiron.10 HM as Holy instead of the usual disc - to my surprise, the numbers I pulled off were quite behind compared to when I was disc. While this could be attributed to the "sniping" mechanic through which disc heals, the overall raid damage being nerfed, or the fact that I simply lacked some experience in the fight as Holy, it's still some food for thought in the whole "Holy is a better Raid Healer than Disc, in almost every situation" argument.
It really depends on your healing group composition.
If I'm paired with a resto druid and an elesham for 10m I prefer to go disc, but I gear like I would for holy. This allows us to leverage the efficiency of our shields and hots.
If it's a 25man and we have two resto druids and a holy priest, I'll go Disc geared like holy unless I'm MT healing, in which case it's the standard Int/Crit/Sp.
If there's one or fewer Resto Druids or no Holy Priest, then I go holy.
It really depends on your healing group composition.
If I'm paired with a resto druid and an elesham for 10m I prefer to go disc, but I gear like I would for holy. This allows us to leverage the efficiency of our shields and hots.
If it's a 25man and we have two resto druids and a holy priest, I'll go Disc geared like holy unless I'm MT healing, in which case it's the standard Int/Crit/Sp.
If there's one or fewer Resto Druids or no Holy Priest, then I go holy.
I really don't understand why you would "gear like I would for Holy" if you have a Disc specific gear set available. Two healers is all that is really needed for most of 10's and if both are good raid healers(H.Priest/Druid/Shaman) I would see the benefit of going Disc even if you didn't have gear. Though if you are dual spec'd with 2 sets of gear there is no reason to not use optimal gear.
Even in 25's you aren't gaining anything by "gearing as Holy" in a Disc build. If anything you are hurting yourself and your raid when you have the proper set available but don't choose to use it.
Disc's gear doesn't change all that much whether you are on the tank or assisting on the raid. You might need more regen when dropping more PW:S to the raid... Though how Disc goes about regen is about Int and the right trinkets (Spark of Hope/Sif's Remembrance, are great for PW:S spam), not about gearing like Holy.
Originally Posted by Zju
Not quite so. The amount of regen you need is obviously related to the amount of shields you decide to spam, and there are several 25-man HMs where I could use even a bit more mana than I currently have [28k+ raid buffed]. A counter-argument to this is that I might as well go Holy and heal more efficiently, however, if you need the benefits of a disc in the raid [for example, having a portion of your raid dropping to 70% HP instead of 40% on Freya 3D] and still take up a non-tank healer spot, a compromise has to be made.
But I agree to the main point - Intellect, past the threshold where Rapture returns more mana than the PW:S cost itself, isn't particularly stronger than usual, considering that Rapture is on a 12s CD.
LE: As an anecdote - due to a different healing setup, this week I had to heal Mimiron.10 HM as Holy instead of the usual disc - to my surprise, the numbers I pulled off were quite behind compared to when I was disc. While this could be attributed to the "sniping" mechanic through which disc heals, the overall raid damage being nerfed, or the fact that I simply lacked some experience in the fight as Holy, it's still some food for thought in the whole "Holy is a better Raid Healer than Disc, in almost every situation" argument.
Disc is fully capable of MT healing and providing raid support through shields on fights such as Freya x3, XT Hardmode...etc. This may be reduced to some degree with the possible nerf in 3.2 of Penance. In example on Freya x3 there is no reason a Disc priest can't MT heal and keep 10 people PW:S on WS cd. PoH on the tanks group to refill the health bars and even toss PW:S on those with Roots or NF that don't have WS up.
Going Holy to "improve" raid healing in a specific composition isn't always the right answer. There is no reason a equally geared Disc Priest can't provide equivalent raid healing to a Holy Priest. In fact it is quite possible to provide more especially on fights were pre-shielding is highly useful. The only exception to this is when there is not other raid healing specs... In 25's if you don't have at least one R.Druid and/or H.Priest being Disc probably isn't optimal. The only comp in 10's that I would see it being optimal to not be Disc and spec to Holy is when duo-healing with a H.Paladin, which is possible just not probably the best choice.
So Disc being used as a "non-tank healer spot" doesn't really require compromise. What it requires a better understanding of the healing provided and less reliance on tools such as Recount to make your decisions for you. Though optimally Disc can tank heal and provide a raid healer simultaneously which is a big win for the raid as a whole.
Disc is fully capable of MT healing and providing raid support through shields on fights such as Freya x3, XT Hardmode...etc. This may be reduced to some degree with the possible nerf in 3.2 of Penance. In example on Freya x3 there is no reason a Disc priest can't MT heal and keep 10 people PW:S on WS cd. PoH on the tanks group to refill the health bars and even toss PW:S on those with Roots or NF that don't have WS up.
Couldn't agree more, however, I doubt anyone was talking about MT healers assisting with a FoL, Holy Shock, or a PWS on someone who really needs it. What I meant by "non-tank" healer was someone who in a situation when Tremor is about to come, NF is up on 1-2 persons and Roots hit at the same time, can use his time keeping them alive without taking a huge risk that the MT might die. That's why priorities and assignments are used.
Originally Posted by TheDoctor
Going Holy to "improve" raid healing in a specific composition isn't always the right answer. There is no reason a equally geared Disc Priest can't provide equivalent raid healing to a Holy Priest. In fact it is quite possible to provide more especially on fights were pre-shielding is highly useful
Exactly. My main raiding spec is Disc, even if there is no Holy present in the raid at that time (we do however have 2 Rdruids and possibly 2 shamans). I find it *at least* as strong as Holy, while also having more on-the-spot answers to unexpected situations (in the form of PWS/Penance).
As for the last paragraph - the compromise (it was obviously referring to the main point of my post - gemming for Regen, since the amount you need is obviously related to the amount of PWS/PoH you do), reliance on Recount (?!) and the overall understanding of, quoting, "the healing provided" - you completely lost me there. You either were replying to someone else, either totally missed what I was trying to say. Or, maybe, my post could have been structured better.
So I have some questions about Disc. I've recently learned about the Rapture bug where it pops off multiple people and it's dramatically changed my mindset as a Disc healer. I usually throw some shields and attempt to flash that person up. Lately with raid healing improving I find no time to give that flash. Am I better spent just watching a tank and shielding a few people to ensure multiple rapture procs on fights with predictable raid damage?
You should use your FH mainly when you are healing the MT. And when you aren't, you should only cast PW:S, PoM, BT hasted PoH and an occasionally Penance on slag pot, stone grip etc. Let the other healers do the actually healing.
So I have some questions about Disc. I've recently learned about the Rapture bug where it pops off multiple people and it's dramatically changed my mindset as a Disc healer. I usually throw some shields and attempt to flash that person up. Lately with raid healing improving I find no time to give that flash. Am I better spent just watching a tank and shielding a few people to ensure multiple rapture procs on fights with predictable raid damage?
Your primary responsibility is on the tank. That said there will obviously be opportunity to cast elsewhere on the raid to assist, especially if your raid doesn't let the buff on Ignis get high enough to drastically increase dmg output on the tank.
When assisting with the raid your best option is usually to PW:S for a couple of reasons.
- If you have your 4pc it refreshes the 250SP buff
- PW:S is fairly well guaranteed to be all used.
- PW:S provides the best multiple healer synergy of any spell. (Not heal sniping - See below)
- Instant, provides BT follow-up.
- You can apply them without risk of spell lockout.
- Can be casted while in tossed in the air.
PoM should be kept on CD. PoH should be used following the Flame Jets on your tank's group and then possibly on any other groups.
PW:S Synergy
Above I state that PW:S doesn't contribute to the "heal sniping". That being the situation that caused CoH(and other fast casts) to provide dramatically better performance on meters due to being front loaded. Which effectively makes one healer look better than another because the faster snipe heal is effective and the second healers is overhealing.
Some may argue that it does snipe heals though I do not agree. PW:S does one of two things it either a) Slows/Stops current incoming damage providing time to land further healing or b) Provides a layer of protection for 30secs preventing or reducing the need for future healing. In situation (b) another healer likely isn't even trying to heal that person so they won't OH. For situation (a) Disc is providing little health bar recovery and primarily death prevention assistance and the other healers heal will recover the health bar and provide effective healing. PW:S will reduce the amount of effective healing required which will "boost" Discs numbers and reduce the amount needing to be healed by other healers. This is a win/win situation because it provides better raid survivability and doesn't increase the mana cost of other healers at the expense of effective healing.
Originally Posted by Zju
-snip-
As for the last paragraph - the compromise (it was obviously referring to the main point of my post - gemming for Regen, since the amount you need is obviously related to the amount of PWS/PoH you do), reliance on Recount (?!) and the overall understanding of, quoting, "the healing provided" - you completely lost me there. You either were replying to someone else, either totally missed what I was trying to say. Or, maybe, my post could have been structured better.
Based on the statement "if you need the benefits of a disc in the raid [for example, having a portion of your raid dropping to 70% HP instead of 40% on Freya 3D] and still take up a non-tank healer spot, a compromise has to be made."
I took that as indication that there is some amount of "compromise" or downside in deciding to take a Disc Priest. When really there is not a "compromise". Both taking a Disc or Holy priest in that spot provide ~equivalent healing potential. From a survivability standpoint PW:S on Ground Tremor is superior to just recovering damage as many players in early kills will not have the health pool to survive multiple damage sources (NF during Tremor as an example). So I would consider your wording poor because it gives the impression that Disc is somehow inadequate when it is not.
The comment to recount and numbers was simply to support the fact that healing isn't easily "metered". Some uninformed RL/GL decide that having a Disc priest is subpar due to recount reports. I would recommend that those individuals and anyone that questions the power of Disc check out World of Logs parses of skilled Disc priests, which will show absorbs fairly accurately. Comparing World of Logs and WMO for example you will find that 50-75% of a Disc Priests contribution to the raid healing is hidden.
You should use your FH mainly when you are healing the MT. And when you aren't, you should only cast PW:S, PoM, BT hasted PoH and an occasionally Penance on slag pot, stone grip etc. Let the other healers do the actually healing.
I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. Usually a disc priest will not be the sole healer on a MT because:
a) You'll go oom
b) You're best when given the opportunity to OH/bubble the raid on certain predictable incoming damage
c) You'll probably be paired up with a pally and/or a resto druid, so to say you need to use flash heal mainly on top of your mending, bubble, renew and penance means either the other healers on the MT are lacking or they aren't following their assignment and off-healing too much.
There's no reason why a disc priest should ever have to use FH on the MT other than on the big damage spikes, which should be mitigated by DA, PWS and mending and the penance. I understand that FH/GH--> Penance is a good spike healer but that by no means justifies "you should use your FH mainly." Maybe i'm not getting your point but by saying "let the other healers do the [actual] healing" you're saying we should heal as much, yet you contradict yourself from the beginning by saying you should use FH when healing the MT. Flash heal costs more mana and isn't as spike-favored due to the casting time that FH has while penance provides instant ticks.
The job of a disc priest is to mitigate damage and provide that quick spike healing without the needed NS/LoH cds blown. I understand on ignis the idea is to penane/bubble slag pots and then FH the tank, but most fights aren't as "damage-specific"
P.S. Is there a BiS list for Disc? I know there's one in the holy compendium but I'm not sure all those slots are best for disc.
I'm not sure how accurate this statement is. Usually a disc priest will not be the sole healer on a MT because:
a) You'll go oom
b) You're best when given the opportunity to OH/bubble the raid on certain predictable incoming damage
c) You'll probably be paired up with a pally and/or a resto druid, so to say you need to use flash heal mainly on top of your mending, bubble, renew and penance means either the other healers on the MT are lacking or they aren't following their assignment and off-healing too much.
There's no reason why a disc priest should ever have to use FH on the MT other than on the big damage spikes, which should be mitigated by DA, PWS and mending and the penance. I understand that FH/GH--> Penance is a good spike healer but that by no means justifies "you should use your FH mainly." Maybe i'm not getting your point but by saying "let the other healers do the [actual] healing" you're saying we should heal as much, yet you contradict yourself from the beginning by saying you should use FH when healing the MT. Flash heal costs more mana and isn't as spike-favored due to the casting time that FH has while penance provides instant ticks.
The job of a disc priest is to mitigate damage and provide that quick spike healing without the needed NS/LoH cds blown. I understand on ignis the idea is to penane/bubble slag pots and then FH the tank, but most fights aren't as "damage-specific"
P.S. Is there a BiS list for Disc? I know there's one in the holy compendium but I'm not sure all those slots are best for disc.
While I think there is rarely "no help" on the MT there is no reason Disc can't be the sole MT healer. Your arguement (a) is clearly false... Disc has the second best mana efficiency when dealing with single target healing and the single best healing per mana spell with Penance. I don't think I could ever run OOM when healing just the MT even completely GCD locked I wouldn't go dry (unless for some reason I decided to fill in with all GH instead of FH). Your statement for (b) is accurate though the isn't much if any reason that you can't do this on GCDs between tank healing. Keeping 5-10 people WS'd is fairly easy on everything except Algalon because you have the GCDs and Vezax HM because you don't have the mana for it. If you have a Paladin to heal the tank then I can understand being even more supporting to the raid healing. Statement (c) is ill thought out, most fights don't require enough healing to the tank that for the most part one tank healer can't provide and still provide healing to secondary targets. The only exceptions to this that I find are Algalon, Vezax HM (mana constrained), Thorim HM, and Mimiron P1 during Plasma Blast.
FH is a staple spell of Disc using it on the MT or your main assignment is expected. You wouldn't use it over Penance when it is off CD obviously unless you have some dire need to save Penance for other people.
There isn't really a BiS list in my opinion... Originally I had planned to add one following the main post or in it. Though I decided against that as I quite often change gear fight to fight. Additionally, there are some very different playstyles for Disc that can somewhat change what would be considered BiS. There are a few slots that may not change for the various situations & playstyles.
LE: As an anecdote - due to a different healing setup, this week I had to heal Mimiron.10 HM as Holy instead of the usual disc - to my surprise, the numbers I pulled off were quite behind compared to when I was disc. While this could be attributed to the "sniping" mechanic through which disc heals, the overall raid damage being nerfed, or the fact that I simply lacked some experience in the fight as Holy, it's still some food for thought in the whole "Holy is a better Raid Healer than Disc, in almost every situation" argument.
On the same way, when we killed Hodir 10 in less than 2 minutes we decided that solo healing was manageable, so I figured that Holy should be the best because of the frozen blows on the raid.
But in fact it appeared that Disc was clearly superior (for me at least ) because of the ability to manage at the same time damage spikes on the MT (PW:S + Penance) and heal the raid (BT PoH).
Your comment let me wonder if I should try disc spec on Mimiron HM (currently I'm doing it as holy essentially for P2 and P4 with HN spam and keeping PoM up) because it seems that obvious things are not always correct !
On the same way, when we killed Hodir 10 in less than 2 minutes we decided that solo healing was manageable, so I figured that Holy should be the best because of the frozen blows on the raid.
But in fact it appeared that Disc was clearly superior (for me at least ) because of the ability to manage at the same time damage spikes on the MT (PW:S + Penance) and heal the raid (BT PoH).
Your comment let me wonder if I should try disc spec on Mimiron HM (currently I'm doing it as holy essentially for P2 and P4 with HN spam and keeping PoM up) because it seems that obvious things are not always correct !
I've done Mimiron HM 10 and 25 as Discipline a few times now and don't have any serious hangups, really. I prefer Discipline in three out of the four phases, P2 being the only phase where I feel like I'd rather be holy. I slot Glyph of Holy Nova specifically for the encounter. On our first 25-man kill I ran with 2/2 Holy Reach to get the extra range on Holy Nova and PoH (which I use pretty frequently in P4). On our 2nd kill I ran without Holy Reach, so I definitely wouldn't say it's essential, but I don't gain anything for putting those 2 points elsewhere on Mimiron, either.
P1 - Having PW:S and Penance to assist with Napalm is valuable, along with a Pain Suppression for the MT. Pretty straightforward.
P2 - I keep PW:S on my group, and any of the groups in melee range; the less my group is being focused by Rapid Burst the more I can shield. When my group gets focused by Rapid Burst I've probably just come off a PW:S so I've got Borrowed Time and my 4-piece bonus rolling. I can fit in ~4-5 hasted novas which is more than enough to get you through the burst, unless you get focused a second time. I weave PW:S on my group as WS drops, casting Novas as necessary. If one of the other groups is getting chain-focused I load up a PoH to help the other healers, but that's rarely needed.
P3 - The easiest healing phase, regardless of spec. I keep our kiter, MT, and bomb bot soaker shielded, using Penance as needed on spike damage. We have a Resto Druid watching our kiter, a Paladin covering the MT, our second Paladin to keep the soaker topped, and that leaves me and the other raid healers to pick up the rest of the damage.
P4 - You can shield spam the raid much like Freya-3, you've got Penance for spike recovery, with BT for hasted PoH. There's a definite benefit to having PW:S and spike coverage from Disc in this phase, assuming you have Resto Druids and/or a Holy Priest to get people topped off.
As you pointed out, Discipline is very much a hybrid healer, capable of transitioning seamlessly from single-target healing to raid coverage, and in some cases both at the same time.
Rollins (or anyone with experience) can you go into your healing setup / strat for 10m Mim hard mode?
Constantius touched on it some in another thread, but I would appreciate some more input. We have done Xt, Thorim, IC, and Auriaya hard modes as two heal encounters with Pally / Dpriest. For Freya, Mim, and Vezax I am not sure on the setup (2 or 3 heals) or strat (pertaining to disc priest in particular) so any input there is welcome as well.
We've done firefighter twice with a resto druid, disc priest, holy pally setup. Both times the resto druid has died from a frost bomb in phase 2, so we 2 healed the end of p2 and all of p3 and p4.
As a disc priest I keep weakened soul on everyone, prom on cooldown, and penance spike damage. I guess the best advice I can give is to use shield more. Everyone should have a shield on them going into p2, p3 and p4. If timed correctly, you can re-shield as soon as the initial shield is consumed.
Really, it's not a healing intensive fight anymore. Are you ensuring napalm is only hitting a single target in p1? Are groups spread out in p2 so no more than three people get focussed? Are you dealing with bots effectively in p3?
The only phase which should require more than 2 healers is phase 2.
We three-heal it with Disc Priest, Holy Paladin, and Resto Shaman.
P1 is pretty straight-forward: use Pain Suppression in whatever cooldown rotation you have on the tank, assist with the MT and Napalm.
P2 I'll keep Prayer of Mending on CD and usually spam Shields while keeping Penance in-case someone gets too low. If the damage gets too concentrated on one group I'll start Shield->Prayer of Healing instead of straight Shield/Penance and just re-shield everyone during Laser Barrage.
P3 is pretty much the same as P1 except you're watching out for more people. We assign a healer each to the Bomb Soaker, Add Tank, and Head Tank just to be careful, although I'll be throwing Shields up on all three "tanks" throughout the phase.
P4 Shields, maybe throw some DoTs around if I hear something is too high in HP, but again, rather straight-forward.
Moowalk mentioned it, but it's worth repeating, use the phase transitions to get Shields up on everyone if you aren't already.
Originally Posted by Snowy
Lightwell owns even more because there's more charges for you if other people don't use it as much!
Have been going trough this topic and actually I consider 18 spirit as the best boots enchant.
Tuskarr vitality: Personal preference, some people like the speed enchant others not.
Personally I consider it as a waste, as tank in SWP I never needed it to be in time as priest I doesn't feel like I need it either.
Greater vitality: You are enchanting for the 6 health, this will be the best option in patch 3.2 with the mp5 buff.
Ice walker: It gives a slight amount of crit but that is about it, if you never go oom this is an oke pick.
18 spirit boots: This is my personal preference, with out BOK and my current gear setup this gives as much mp5 as vitality.
On top of that you gain 18 spirit while not casting ((phase switches)) it isn't much but it helps.
Regarding the runspeed enchant: of course it's not "needed". On the other hand: who would say "I need the 18 spirit", otherwise I don't beat the encounter"?
Running faster helps on XT-002 hard, Freya (getting to mushrooms), Hodir, Thorim Hard, Mimiron Hard. It's a slight edge, sure. On the other hand 18 spirit is a slight edge at best. In fact, it's probably weaker overall, considering the relevance of the added hitpoints for several of the hard modes.
Originally Posted by Pewsey
Many of our snakes are 3m+ in size. They'll just take the lawnmower off you and beat the shit out of you with it to make you tender, then bite you and eat you.
When you talk about running to a mushroom you talk about a 0.1 maybe 0.2 second faster, it isn't more.
It is not even something you can notice in speed difference.
If you talk about needing the stamina then you can get a better enchant.
Having 72 more mana per minute isn't game breaking but I would consider it as more valuable.
In the end it remains a personal preference and I think we can all agree boots enchant for healers are pretty mediocre.
Though I think speed enchant on boots is over rated.
I'm pretty sure it's not that speed to boots is over rated, it's just that no other enchant has merit enough to prove itself more worthwhile. They're all marginal at best.
The reason speed stands out against the other marginal improvements is that every other improvement you can find from a boot enchant you can pick up easily some other way. There are much fewer sources for speed increases and typically none that are available without giving up something that truly is valuable (like a meta gem bonus).
Anyone who finds some small merit in the extra speed is likely to choose it over a little bit of regen unless they're frequently scraping the bottom of the barrel for mana on fights.
I really don't understand why you would "gear like I would for Holy" if you have a Disc specific gear set available. Two healers is all that is really needed for most of 10's and if both are good raid healers(H.Priest/Druid/Shaman) I would see the benefit of going Disc even if you didn't have gear. Though if you are dual spec'd with 2 sets of gear there is no reason to not use optimal gear.
Even in 25's you aren't gaining anything by "gearing as Holy" in a Disc build. If anything you are hurting yourself and your raid when you have the proper set available but don't choose to use it.
Disc's gear doesn't change all that much whether you are on the tank or assisting on the raid. You might need more regen when dropping more PW:S to the raid... Though how Disc goes about regen is about Int and the right trinkets (Spark of Hope/Sif's Remembrance, are great for PW:S spam), not about gearing like Holy.
Honestly what i mean when I say gear like I would for holy I mean that I favor haste over crit. For 10's I need enough haste to squeeze 5 shields in between penance casts, followed by a very fast PoH. This allows me to handle raid spikes at the same time as main tanking without skipping a beat.
For raid healing 25's I like Haste/Spirit more than Crit/Mp5 as the haste grants me lower gcds for shielding and faster poh's for recovery. I also find Spirit more beneficial as I'm able to manually cheat the 5 second rule very easily since my toolbox is based on rapid single target recovery. I have enough crit that if ever I need to a single penance will put inspiration up on the tank.
For tank healing 25's I prefer the Crit/Mp5 over Haste/Spi, because I need the DA bubbles to build up as fast as possible buying me time in between penance casts.
To simplify, it's based on what I need more of gcds or single target throughput. For raid healing I always need more gcds, for tank healing in 10's my single target throughput is sufficient, so I opt for more gcds, for 25 tank healing I need as much single target throughput as I can get.
06/20/09, 4:49 PM
) because of the ability to manage at the same time damage spikes on the MT (PW:S + Penance) and heal the raid (BT PoH).
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