Elitist Jerks Discipline Healing Compendium v3.1

 05/28/09, 5:19 PM #181 grghrkn Glass Joe   Sithu Blood Elf Paladin   Lethon deleted Last edited by grghrkn : 06/04/09 at 8:24 AM.
05/28/09, 7:20 PM   #182
Kashir
Piston Honda

Draenei Priest

Frostmourne
 Originally Posted by grghrkn With 3/3 Meditation and 100% FSR, it takes 824 Intellect for 2.5 Spirit > 1 mp5 (the itemization cost ratio of the two stats). If you have 824+ Intellect, Spirit is strictly better than mp5 for Discipline Priests.
Where are you getting that from? We went over the math a few pages back, and the conclusion was 1718 Int (buffed) for Spirit = mp5 at 100% I5SR.

Discipline Healing Compendium v3.1

Not that I think mp5 is ever a good stat to take over spirit, but if our figures disagree I'd like to know why.

05/28/09, 10:37 PM   #183
Promethia
Piston Honda

Blood Elf Priest

Kilrogg
 Originally Posted by Elimbras I would suggest to use sustained hps and peak hps instead of longevity and throughput. ... One advantage is that both consider healing done, which is the metric we usely consider (even if it's not the best one). "Mana saved / regen" is not healing done. In other words, we are adding apples and apples. ... It's main difficulty is that it's obviously dependent on the fight length...
I am not so sure sustained hps and peak hps work any better than longevity and throughput. Peak hps is ok, although it is similar to throughput. However, I do not see how sustained hps addresses a specific practical problem well.

My rather simplistic view is that gear can only help address two very specific problems you encounter while healing:

1. If you simply cannot churn out enough healing to keep people, that is a throughput problem. Increasing either your peak hps or your throughput seems to address that issue fairly directly.

2. If you can keep people alive for while but then run out of mana, that is a longevity problem. Looking at mp5 addresses this problem fairly directly, but sustained hps addresses it only in an oblique way.

It seems awkward and contrived to address what really comes down to a mana problem in a metric that uses hps as its unit of measure. While I'm sure that sustained hps is highly correlated with longevity and could be used as a substitute, I wonder why we wouldn't just look at mana directly, since that is what we run out of.

In other words, it makes sense to quantify a healing output problem with a metric in healing per time. By similar reasoning, it makes sense to quantify a mana output problem with a metric in mana per time units.

 Originally Posted by dfscott Someone made a comment a while back about picking gear based on iLvl is about as good a method as any, and while that's a bit of an exaggeration, it's really not that far from the truth.
A lot of people have said things along those lines. Especially for discipine priests, I think random gear choices based purely on ilvl and brainlessly followed is a viable gearing strategy. It is probably better than those who come here looking to find out "What is better? Haste or crit?" and then stack one and neglect the other. Think of it as a strategy which avoids bad/misguided optimizations very well since by chance you are very unlikely to have a significant stat imbalanced.

Of couse I think it is possible to do better than random choices within the same ilvl. In a particular role, it might make sense to optimize a bit one way or another. But even then it won't make a huge difference.

However, even if what I'm saying is true and only gear ilvl makes any real difference, it won't stop people trying to optimize their gear. Based on all the discussion here and elsewhere about BiS items, it seems obvious to me that the quest for "the best" gear is an end unto itself. It doesn't matter if optimizing stats really helps because people just like doing it anyway...

And I don't want to be a grinch and spoil everyone's fun, so please optimize your gear if it pleases you. We do all this for fun, right? I just don't want anyone thinking he/she HAS to worry about that in order to play well.

 Originally Posted by Ellyh The fact is that even on the same fight your casting pattern can differ radically from one week to the next because this week the MT warrior is at the dentist and the Bear is tanking the fight today. Thus the only way to truly decide what stat to focus on is to critically review your own healing and focus on the things that you are personally lacking.
Exactly. Your situation is constantly changing as a healer, so maximizing towards a particular common circumstance does not make much sense. It's a brittle strategy -- not robust. Instead, minimizing your chances of "breaking" in less common but possible scenarios may make more sense. Admittedly I am biased by being a biologist, since that is how nature operates (that is, "optimization" is attained by making extreme fatal traits go extinct more than by prospering extreme positive traits). Still, I would argue that as a healer your job is more to keep people barely alive under a variety of circumstances than to keep people alive "very well" under optimal circumstances.

05/28/09, 11:37 PM   #184
dfscott
Von Kaiser

Human Priest

Windrunner
 Originally Posted by Promethia However, even if what I'm saying is true and only gear ilvl makes any real difference, it won't stop people trying to optimize their gear. Based on all the discussion here and elsewhere about BiS items, it seems obvious to me that the quest for "the best" gear is an end unto itself. It doesn't matter if optimizing stats really helps because people just like doing it anyway... And I don't want to be a grinch and spoil everyone's fun, so please optimize your gear if it pleases you. We do all this for fun, right? I just don't want anyone thinking he/she HAS to worry about that in order to play well.
Exactly. Once you hit a few key limits, the differences start getting smaller and much harder to quantify.

However, I really enjoy the metagame of gear optimization. I love all the tools and spreadsheets. I know at the end of the day that it might not make any difference, but I love my lists...

05/29/09, 3:11 AM   #185
Bossi
Glass Joe

Destromath (EU)
 Originally Posted by Promethia However, even if what I'm saying is true and only gear ilvl makes any real difference, it won't stop people trying to optimize their gear. Based on all the discussion here and elsewhere about BiS items, it seems obvious to me that the quest for "the best" gear is an end unto itself. It doesn't matter if optimizing stats really helps because people just like doing it anyway...
While that is true, it on the other hand makes passing on gear that much easier - if the item has the same ilvl and no extra gemslot its very safe to pass until absolutely no one else wants it.

 Originally Posted by Promethia Still, I would argue that as a healer your job is more to keep people barely alive under a variety of circumstances than to keep people alive "very well" under optimal circumstances.
Very well worded.

05/29/09, 10:01 AM   #186
l337n00b
Von Kaiser

Human Priest

Vek'nilash
 Originally Posted by Promethia Exactly. Your situation is constantly changing as a healer, so maximizing towards a particular common circumstance does not make much sense. It's a brittle strategy -- not robust. Instead, minimizing your chances of "breaking" in less common but possible scenarios may make more sense. Admittedly I am biased by being a biologist, since that is how nature operates (that is, "optimization" is attained by making extreme fatal traits go extinct more than by prospering extreme positive traits). Still, I would argue that as a healer your job is more to keep people barely alive under a variety of circumstances than to keep people alive "very well" under optimal circumstances.
I also have a personal love of the meta-game of gear choices, so I spend lots of time working formulas to figure it out. I realize that in the real world we don't heal in optimized rotations, but I think there are ways to get around this problem.

Currently I use my own WWS logs to get my casting patterns. Rather than answering the question of how much better at healing a stat makes me in a theoretical situation, I can answer the question of how much better it would have made me last week, which is a pretty decent indication of how much better it will make me next week. It's not perfect, but it's very real-world. It also helps me a lot personally because I play in a 10-man guild, so most of the theoretical theory-crafting I see doesn't apply very directly to me.

Another way I can think to try to optimize stats in a real-world context could be to look at the breakpoints that we are actually going to encounter. For ten man I might ask myself questions like:

1) Do I have enough mana to spam enough PoH's to get through Frozen Blows?
2) Do I have enough throughput to deal with a Fusion Punch followed by a hit or two when a Rune of Death appears under Steelbreaker's tank?
3) Will my mana pool last through Vezax?
4) Will I have enough throughput to keep the raid alive after Ground Tremors in Freya+3?

Ulduar actually throws a lot of unique healing situations at us, and those situations are very different in the 10- and 25-man raids. If the group isn't winning a particular encounter, think about which stats are going to fix that. Ultimately this is probably very difficult to translate into actual numbers, especially when there are so many different fights, but I did write myself a simulator for tank healing on Sarth+3 to get stat weightings for that fight (back when that was the only fight worth worrying about).

I suppose, though, that I can't really prove that my stat weighting is better than selecting higher ilvl items at random. After all, I gear radically differently than most of the people who discuss gearing on this forum, and really, all of us who found our own ways of getting GoTR have reason to think our gearing method is "good enough." I guess we'll see about Algalon.

An idiot is someone who would rather be treated like an idiot than called an idiot

05/29/09, 10:46 AM   #187
The Not So Evil
Piston Honda

Night Elf Priest

Trollbane (EU)
 Originally Posted by l337n00b Currently I use my own WWS logs to get my casting patterns. Rather than answering the question of how much better at healing a stat makes me in a theoretical situation, I can answer the question of how much better it would have made me last week, which is a pretty decent indication of how much better it will make me next week. It's not perfect, but it's very real-world. It also helps me a lot personally because I play in a 10-man guild, so most of the theoretical theory-crafting I see doesn't apply very directly to me.
Rawr has a custom role that allows you to do exactly this. Use your WWS/WMO(preferred) and enter in relevant information and it will do calculations to show how you can improve yourself gear wise for the next time you do this fight.

Rawr - Coder of HolyPriest (Healer) and ShadowPriest (DPS) Modules.

05/29/09, 10:47 AM   #188
Elimbras
Don Flamenco

Dwarf Priest

Eitrigg (EU)
 Originally Posted by Promethia I am not so sure sustained hps and peak hps work any better than longevity and throughput. Peak hps is ok, although it is similar to throughput. However, I do not see how sustained hps addresses a specific practical problem well. My rather simplistic view is that gear can only help address two very specific problems you encounter while healing: 1. If you simply cannot churn out enough healing to keep people, that is a throughput problem. Increasing either your peak hps or your throughput seems to address that issue fairly directly. 2. If you can keep people alive for while but then run out of mana, that is a longevity problem. Looking at mp5 addresses this problem fairly directly, but sustained hps addresses it only in an oblique way. It seems awkward and contrived to address what really comes down to a mana problem in a metric that uses hps as its unit of measure. While I'm sure that sustained hps is highly correlated with longevity and could be used as a substitute, I wonder why we wouldn't just look at mana directly, since that is what we run out of. In other words, it makes sense to quantify a healing output problem with a metric in healing per time. By similar reasoning, it makes sense to quantify a mana output problem with a metric in mana per time units.
We agree about the peak hps / throughput part.
Considering the longevity / sustained hps part, when you go oom, there is two ways to address the problem. Either you can improve your mana regen, and spam more heals, or you can improve your hpm, and use less frequent harder hitting heals. Of course, with the current itemization, increasing regen is likely to be the "best" way. But we still should not neglect the impact of crit / spell power for the hpm ratio, and therefore for the longevity. This is precisely what "sustained hps" measures : how much total healing can we give till oom in a fight. If you are lacking mana, you will see high weights on regen stats. However, you will still benefit from crit / spellpower for longevity.

One first point is the trouble to weight longevity and throughput stats is a global ranking. A 60/40 (often read) split has no meaning, because we have no obvious correspondance between mana regen and throughput. Is one MP5 worth 1 sp ? 10 sp ? 0.1 sp ? You need to precise this.

One way to consider this point is the comparison of haste and crit. We all know that haste is "globally" a better throughput stat than crit. We also all know that haste increases our mana expense, whereas crit does not. How to "modelize" it ? You can put a negative weight on longevity for haste, but that's a little bit crazy. More haste doesn't mean that you have to spam more, just that you have the ability. You also can't ignore the question : if you're lacking regen, between haste and crit choices, you should be choosing crit, because it's good for your hpm. That's why you need to give a positive weight on crit and spellpower for longevity ranking. How much ? This is precisely what sustained hps computes.

05/30/09, 8:50 PM   #189
Promethia
Piston Honda

Blood Elf Priest

Kilrogg
 Originally Posted by Elimbras Considering the longevity / sustained hps part, when you go oom, there is two ways to address the problem. Either you can improve your mana regen, and spam more heals, or you can improve your hpm, and use less frequent harder hitting heals. Of course, with the current itemization, increasing regen is likely to be the "best" way. But we still should not neglect the impact of crit / spell power for the hpm ratio, and therefore for the longevity. This is precisely what "sustained hps" measures : how much total healing can we give till oom in a fight. If you are lacking mana, you will see high weights on regen stats. However, you will still benefit from crit / spellpower for longevity.
Knowing you, I thought you might bring this up, because it is a good point. Changing your heal per mana will affect your mana by decreasing the rate at which you spend out your mana. This would affect your longevity without changing your mana regen. Longevity is actually proportional to:

$\frac{Mana}{Mp5_{out} - Mp5_{in}}$

So I am a bit uncomfortable with using mana regen as a surrogate for longevity since then you are implicity assuming your mana pool and your mana burn rate (the rate at which you spend out mana) are fairly fixed. That is fairly true for mana but your mana burn rate is affected by a lot of things, which does make me uneasy. Also, mana regen is related to longevity via a hyperbolic transform, which is very non-linear and tough to wrap your brain around.

Still, sustained hps has even more nebulous meaning to me. So if I have X sustained hps, what does that tell me about my chance to run out of mana on a particular fight? I don't know. "More is better" is about all I know. At least with mana regen, I have some idea about how quickly I am spending mana, and so I can estimate how a certain amount of Mp5 might slow that and how that ultimately will affect how quickly I run oom.

Also, I don't think it is all that crazy to assign negative Mp5 value to haste. The practical problem you're trying to get at is how the denominator is affected in the above longevity formula. There are a few alternative ways to approach that problem, but if you assume a spam healing (i.e. near max throughput) situation, then spell power and crit do not a affect that denominator and haste does (in a negative way).

Although some may disagree, I think that is a fairly intuitive approach. The "feel" of haste is that you can heal faster, but also that you run through your mana faster. With spell power and crit, I do not have a sense that my mana lasts longer -- only that I can heal for more. Maybe others end up feeling "Wow, this spell power really makes my mana go farther", but that has not happened to me, even though I know I can heal more with the same mana.

Alternatively, you could reject the "spam healing" situation and postulate that you have a fixed amount to heal. This is essentially what sustained hps does. In that case, your mana burn rate is unchanged by haste but goes down from spell power and crit. So an alternative to sustained hps would be to assign positive Mp5 values to crit and spell power.

Overall, I would like a better way to quantify longevity than what we currently have... but I really do not think any such metric should be measured in heal per sec. That just doesn't make sense to me. It is just the wrong unit of measure. I can live with mana per time or time, but heal per time is... odd.

Perhaps a more useful measure would be to know how long you can sustain your maximum hps. Sure, you don't usually operate at your maximum hps, but that would give you some useful information nevertheless. For instance, if you can sustain your maximum hps for 5 minutes, you know you are not going to run oom unless a fight lasts longer than that. For longer fights, you may need to slow down to last. That is useful to know, but I do not know how to easily translate sustained hps into such useful information.

Last edited by Promethia : 05/30/09 at 8:56 PM.

05/31/09, 2:26 PM   #190
Elimbras
Don Flamenco

Dwarf Priest

Eitrigg (EU)
 Originally Posted by Promethia K Alternatively, you could reject the "spam healing" situation and postulate that you have a fixed amount to heal. This is essentially what sustained hps does. In that case, your mana burn rate is unchanged by haste but goes down from spell power and crit. So an alternative to sustained hps would be to assign positive Mp5 values to crit and spell power.
You stated perfectly the 2 options.
Many people consider the "spam" option, where you are at your maximum throughput for the whole fight. In such cases, indeed, haste has a negative value.

I prefer the "fixed amount to heal" scenario, especially as a raid healer in holy. In many fights, I am used to provide the burst when needed, and then heal with cheaper heals / heal less. Basically, I still use the heal / sit model, but in order to adapt to the damage pattern. I can't spam POH for the whole fight, and I want to spam it when needed.
Now, in this scenario. you want to consider what is the maximum amount you can heal. As I assume a fixed fight length, this is equivalent to the hps you can sustain in the fixed fight length (it's just dividing by a constant). Note that in both cases, the fight length has the same impact on the relative weigth between crit / spellpower and regen. Finally, I don't know any way (and I don't think there is any) to remove the impact of this fight length, because healing (at least successful) won't have any impact about it. It depends only on your dps (and marginally on the damage you can add as healer). But if you prefer, you can consider total healing done. It's the same, just in a different unit (that is less clear to combine with peak hps).

As a final remark, if you run with a fixed amount of healers, the "fixed amount to heal" option seems right to consider. The fight length will be determined by the boss HP and your effective dps, and you need to survive for the whole fight (ie heal for the boss_dps x fight_length). I know that healers can be removed for dps. The option to do it within this settings is to "adapt" the fight length on the number of dps, and see wether you can sustain the needed hps or not for the fight length.

PS : The reason I want to keep the "peak" hps metric is because the boss damage is not evenly distributed in time, and you sometimes need more temporary hps.

06/01/09, 1:03 AM   #191
Promethia
Piston Honda

Blood Elf Priest

Kilrogg
 Originally Posted by Elimbras In many fights, I am used to provide the burst when needed, and then heal with cheaper heals / heal less. Basically, I still use the heal / sit model, but in order to adapt to the damage pattern. I can't spam POH for the whole fight, and I want to spam it when needed. Now, in this scenario. you want to consider what is the maximum amount you can heal. As I assume a fixed fight length, this is equivalent to the hps you can sustain in the fixed fight length (it's just dividing by a constant). Note that in both cases, the fight length has the same impact on the relative weigth between crit / spellpower and regen. Finally, I don't know any way (and I don't think there is any) to remove the impact of this fight length, because healing (at least successful) won't have any impact about it. It depends only on your dps (and marginally on the damage you can add as healer). But if you prefer, you can consider total healing done. It's the same, just in a different unit (that is less clear to combine with peak hps). As a final remark, if you run with a fixed amount of healers, the "fixed amount to heal" option seems right to consider. The fight length will be determined by the boss HP and your effective dps, and you need to survive for the whole fight (ie heal for the boss_dps x fight_length). I know that healers can be removed for dps. The option to do it within this settings is to "adapt" the fight length on the number of dps, and see wether you can sustain the needed hps or not for the fight length.
Ideally I want metrics that make no assumptions about what the healer might be asked to do, including assumptions about how much healing needs to be done or how long a fight lasts. In other words, I want to know general bounds on what the healer is capable of, regardless of the particular encounter, raid makeup, or whatever.

For instance, peak hps is one such limit. That does not depend on who else is in raid, nor does it depend on the encounter. It is just a useful, general property of the healer. Even though that healer may never have to operate at max hps, it is still useful to know his/her peak hps.

Along a completely different dimension, an analogous measure on how long a healer can heal would be nice, although it is not nearly so obvious how to measure this best. I do not expect healers to be spam healing most of the time, but it still may be useful to know how long healers can maintain their maximum hps.

In theory, I don't object to following a "fixed amount to heal" scenario. But in that case I would want to specify a fixed rate of healing (instead of a fixed time) and ask "How long can you maintain X HPS?" And that is really the critical point for me: knowing how long a healer can last under some standard conditions is useful, but knowing how much hps you can maintain over a standard time interval is not. I'm not sure I'm getting that across well.

I guess another way I could say it is that sustained hps really answers the wrong question for me. I'd prefer to know how long I can heal at a certain rate rather than knowing at what rate I can heal for a certain length of time.... Hope that makes more sense.

Incidentally, you could specify an infinite time interval for sustained hps. This would answer "How much can I heal from my regen alone?", and it sort of gets around the problem of specifying a time. However, it still does not really answer the questions I most want to answer.

Last edited by Promethia : 06/01/09 at 4:47 AM. Reason: Reworded for clarification... because I hated the way I had it.

 06/02/09, 8:08 AM #192 Elimbras Don Flamenco   Mordil Dwarf Priest   Eitrigg (EU) I agree with your idea of general bounds. The throughput bound is easy : it's the peak hps, and correspond to the maximal hps you can provide in heavy damage phases. The regen bound is less obvious. Basically, it depends on two main factor :The needed hps you want to sustain The duration you need to maintain it Knowing both parameters, you can have an answer "Yes we can" or "No, you'll die". Knowing only one, you can compute the limit for the other parameter (ie determine regions with answer yes and regions with answer no). I don't have any theoretical reason to favor one approach or the other. Both makes sense, and are based on the same mathematical model. You just change the parameter you set up in the model (either fight length or needed hps). I prefer to set up the fight length, but that's a personal opinion. The first reason for this is that I have a better estimation of fight length, which I also find more stable between fights that for needed hps. The second one is that I don't need to "change" the needed hps when my gear updates. Fight length is about the same order for every boss in LK (longer bosses have usely more regen phases). Starting Naax in blues, you want to heal for 6 minutes, but light damage. In hard mode Ulduar, you want to heal as mental for still about 6 minutes. I just know that if my peak hps is way above my sustained hps, I could do with more regen. If my sustained hps is close to my peak hps, it means I don't need a lot more regen. But this is more practical reasons that theoretical ones. Last one I already indicated : there is a natural way to merge sustained hps and peak hps metrics. You need to be more clear about hidden weights when merging longevity and peak hps : you're adding apples and oranges.
06/02/09, 8:48 AM   #193
Jamora
Glass Joe

Dwarf Priest

Die Aldor (EU)
 Originally Posted by Promethia Ideally I want metrics that make no assumptions about what the healer might be asked to do, including assumptions about how much healing needs to be done or how long a fight lasts. In other words, I want to know general bounds on what the healer is capable of, regardless of the particular encounter, raid makeup, or whatever.
I think you are right that to desire very general bounds. As you said, peak HPS is one such bound, and in my opinion quite useful to determine the abilities of one healer(however, one might have to differentiate between single target and raid-wide healing, especially if one wants values which are comparable between classes). Obviously the other important question is sustainability, however it is in no way obvious how to measure this.

Your first idea was to measure how long a given healer can sustain a certain rate of healing, a value one could measure in minutes per 1k hps. However, the fundamental problem is that time and hps are not anti-proportional to each other, so one has to fix an arbitrary hps value and just assume it is a good estimate. Again this is completely arbitrary and depending on class, spec and encounter may be wildly off.

 Originally Posted by Promethia Incidentally, you could specify an infinite time interval for sustained hps. This would answer "How much can I heal from my regen alone?", and it sort of gets around the problem of specifying a time. However, it still does not really answer the questions I most want to answer.
Personally I had this idea as well and I think it is better than most other metrics. It is independent of raid set up(under the assumption that buffs like replenishment or paladin blessings are present), which is already a big bonus. You said it does not answer the questions you would like to have answered, and I agree. However I think you want something which just is not independent of the raid and encounter, so you cannot find an answer to this. So lets look at what information such a sustained hps value would yield. Beside the obvious interpretation(you could heal at this rate indefinitely), it is a measure of optimal sustained healing, in the sense that in practice your value will be lower due to overhealing, suboptimal choices of spells etc. Since it is class and spec independent(again, perhaps split in single target and raid-wide), one can simply add the values of all healers to get the raid sustained healing ability. Compare it with the similar sustained incoming damage of a specific encounter and one has an estimate of the number of healers necessary.

An additional advantage is that it is directly comparable to peak HPS. Peak HPS is the upper bound of the healing, infinitely sustained HPS is the lower bound. Actual healing will be somewhere in between. Also, by not using the mana pool size for sustained HPS(except for regeneration), there is this buffer to use for peak HPS without reducing your sustained HPS.

As a sidenote, I like both values because I have emotions attached to their interpretation. The infinitely sustained HPS is the "completely bored threshold", while the peak HPS is the "frantic healing goal", both of which I have experienced and can interpret.

After writing this wall of text, I have realized that the biggest plus in my book (beside the above intuition) is the fact that you get valued which might be comparable between different classes.

 06/02/09, 11:00 AM #194 l337n00b Von Kaiser   Sthenno Human Priest   Vek'nilash Considering your sustainable healing per second over an infinite time does answer a question that I am personally very interested in: If I get battle rez'd or stand up with a soul stone, how useful am I going to be? I know I'm not supposed to get killed, my ability to function after getting killed has been the difference between win and lose quite a few times, especially first kills of difficult content. To me, the guild's first kill of new, difficult content is one of the most important things to consider (it really doesn't matter how much better I get at things I know I can do anyway). And most likely if we won after I got battle rez'd then we would have won in a couple more attempts anyway, but an attempt at a boss is the biggest the stakes can get. I tend to agree that having more spell power doesn't feel like it gives you more longevity, but for discipline priests it gives you more longevity in a very meaningful way. When the tank gets hit, you want to use penance to heal it. If penance didn't do enough then you need to follow up, probably with a flash heal. Flash heal's hpm is less than half of penance. Having bigger penances and shields means casting fewer flash heals, which is going to do wonders for your longevity. Of course, int is still going to outshine spell power, but with super efficient heals on cooldowns, spell power definitely has an effect. Exactly how much of an effect seems really difficult to figure out. Calculating your maximum sustainable healing over a period sort of builds that in, though, since you are obviously going to start (for a single target, AoE will give totally different numbers, obviously) by assuming you cast PW:S every 15 seconds and Penance every 6.4 seconds and then see how many other spells you can afford. Mana regen and haste will give you more flash heals, spell power and crit will give you fewer. An idiot is someone who would rather be treated like an idiot than called an idiot
06/02/09, 4:17 PM   #195
Starfire
Honorary Toastr

Night Elf Priest

Dragonblight
I've been following up on the discussion with haste. One thing I've found people aren't mentioning to often is Prayer of Healing and haste.

Lately, the more we do hardmodes, the more I find myself helping raid heal with Prayer of Healing. And even though I've got 420 haste in normal gear, I do feel like I could use more haste to power my Prayer of Healings.

 Originally Posted by arison Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when \$AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

 Elitist Jerks Discipline Healing Compendium v3.1