WotLK Healing Compendium v3.3: Arthas' downfall! - Page 6

moowalk · 12/14/09, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Kimina1

This dropped for us in our first clearing as well. We gave it to our Resto druid and I think that it greatly benefits them more so than Priests since they are HoT spamming the raid. Going through the logs, it seemed to be about 5-6% of his total healing which is greater than the 2-3% the previous poster stated on his Saurfang encounter.

[Althor's Abacus] will be useful for Holy Priests (Circle of Healing anyone?) more so than Disc priests, but I do believe it I will keep my regen SP trinkets until I am geared in most 264 for more throughput.

So, go Solace/Purified Dust IMO.

But all these trinkets are limited more by their ICD than by the proc chance. So unless I'm missing something, CoH will still only proc the trinket once.

There is some benefit to triggering at, say, 50 seconds rather than at 60 seconds, but it's not the huge one that some people make it out to be.

It's a straight throughput trinket, so I would give it to classes who don't need regen (anyone except pallies in ICC gear, right?).

RamonKahn · 12/14/09, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by Kimina1

ToC examples:
Beasts: Gormok -> Worms -> Icehowl
Jarax: After 1st set of infernals, healing is generally in a lull
FC: After 2-3 NPCs are down
Twins: During a light/dark shield, the extra mana can help others as well as yourself
Anub: Burrow phases.

HoH isn't used in Beasts: P1 I can just procc Rapture of the melees (= 5-10k Mana every 15s), which means I won't go oom. In P2 I either spam shields on the melees or I heal something. As soon as Icehowl's incoming I spam the raid with shields (beginning with the melees who will be hit by the breath) as they'll always procc. and after a return of 16k mana because of a rapture when kicked into the wall nobody'll need HoH.
Jarax: Maybe there's time to throw a Hymn but since our melees are generally running into the infernals, there's no lull afterwards.
FC: I dislike the fight anyways and I surely won't cast a spell that'll probably get me interrupted for some time. And after 5 mobs are killed, any healer can pretty much go afk.
Twins: I have to collect the coloured things therefore I'm pretty much just running around. I won't get more than 2 ticks of the Hymn so I'd rather cast a PoH, since that's the only time I can cast that one.
Anub: Well yes, but P1 is not that mana consuming, so in P2 I follow the one who is charged by Anub to be able to give him a Divine Spirit if he fails at running.

And especially in ICC the fights I saw so far don't really have healing lulls, even in the gunship battle you may have some bad luck and get targeted by some rockets while casting HoH.
The only use HoH has is to take one tick to max the shadowfiend regen. I don't spend time casting HoH, I rather try to estimate who'll get dmg and mitigate that dmg by throwing out a shield. There's no encounter where nobody'll get hurt for the next 30s so a good placed shield is rarely going to rest unused. And I'd rather have 30k additional heal than 6k mana who won't be used in the fight.
There are some situations where HoH rules, just take Vezax hardmode as an example but there aren't that many fights where mana really is an issue and that leads to the conclusion that HoH is not a overly useful spell.

Starfire · 12/14/09, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Kimina1

This dropped for us in our first clearing as well. We gave it to our Resto druid and I think that it greatly benefits them more so than Priests since they are HoT spamming the raid. Going through the logs, it seemed to be about 5-6% of his total healing which is greater than the 2-3% the previous poster stated on his Saurfang encounter.

[Althor's Abacus] will be useful for Holy Priests (Circle of Healing anyone?) more so than Disc priests, but I do believe it I will keep my regen SP trinkets until I am geared in most 264 for more throughput.

So, go Solace/Purified Dust IMO.

The trinket has an internal cooldown, so it doesn't really matter if you're Holy or Disc for the proc. However, Spiritual Healing and possibly other talents seem to affect the proc.

In regards to DF vs. SW, I have absolutely no problem respeccing to SW if a fight deems it so. But in the mean time, I'll happily smite spam while doing Heroics and dailies. I also can't think of a current ICC fight in which SW would make a significant contribution either. I took very little damage in all 4 fights released.

Kashir · 12/14/09, 9:05 PM

Regarding [Althor's Abacus]:

Can confirm that it's a typical ~45s ICD, though the proc rate is lower than most (I'd guess about 20%). It procs on HoT ticks, which means Druids will have the shortest intervals (though not by a huge degree). It also procs on PWS glyph heals. Not sure if it procs on PoM bounces.

It's definitely not random targetting. I'm not sure whether it always heals the lowest health, or whether it selects from any target with a health deficit. This can include pets.

Quite a decent trinket. I'd probably use double Solace if I had them, but that's more to do with Solace being insanely overpowered than Abacus being weak.

Caliste · 12/14/09, 9:10 PM

Thanks for the feedback. I would be pugging to get the 245 Solace. But I can also purchase the Lunar trinket with Emblems. I'm mostly concerned about the proc on the Abacus. It seems harder to quantify its value than the other trinkets. I would mostly be Holy. Unless of course ICC continues to be more Disc-friendly.

Starfire · 12/14/09, 9:57 PM

I think the trinket heals the lowest Absolute health, which is why it prefers to heal pets over others. But it also heals the tank quite often.

Miarose · 12/14/09, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by RamonKahn

-snip-
The only use HoH has is to take one tick to max the shadowfiend regen. I don't spend time casting HoH, I rather try to estimate who'll get dmg and mitigate that dmg by throwing out a shield. There's no encounter where nobody'll get hurt for the next 30s so a good placed shield is rarely going to rest unused. And I'd rather have 30k additional heal than 6k mana who won't be used in the fight.
There are some situations where HoH rules, just take Vezax hardmode as an example but there aren't that many fights where mana really is an issue and that leads to the conclusion that HoH is not a overly useful spell.

My guild does not always run with the most ideal raid composition for healers. That being said, Hymn of hope is not solely for yourself. When learning new hard modes, and mana is more of an issue, its nice to have the ability to give additional mana to my other healers, much as shammies give us mana tide and other priests' hymns.

There are very few fights where I really need that extra mana, and sometimes I just want a safe buffer of knowing I have a tiny bit to spare. But, those times when we're under [manning] healing or a MT healer dies, I want my few seconds of Hymn, and all the mana it's going to give me back.

Like Kimina said, there are some ideal times where Hymn of Hope fits into the fight perfectly. There are times where my other healers know I will hymn, to benefit us all, and this has become a normal way of play style for me. I think you underestimate the value of such a high mana regen spell.

itsmekp · 12/15/09, 7:03 AM

Originally Posted by RamonKahn

HoH isn't used in Beasts: P1 I can just procc Rapture of the melees (= 5-10k Mana every 15s), which means I won't go oom. In P2 I either spam shields on the melees or I heal something. As soon as Icehowl's incoming I spam the raid with shields (beginning with the melees who will be hit by the breath) as they'll always procc. and after a return of 16k mana because of a rapture when kicked into the wall nobody'll need HoH.
Jarax: Maybe there's time to throw a Hymn but since our melees are generally running into the infernals, there's no lull afterwards.
FC: I dislike the fight anyways and I surely won't cast a spell that'll probably get me interrupted for some time. And after 5 mobs are killed, any healer can pretty much go afk.
Twins: I have to collect the coloured things therefore I'm pretty much just running around. I won't get more than 2 ticks of the Hymn so I'd rather cast a PoH, since that's the only time I can cast that one.
Anub: Well yes, but P1 is not that mana consuming, so in P2 I follow the one who is charged by Anub to be able to give him a Divine Spirit if he fails at running.

And especially in ICC the fights I saw so far don't really have healing lulls, even in the gunship battle you may have some bad luck and get targeted by some rockets while casting HoH.
The only use HoH has is to take one tick to max the shadowfiend regen. I don't spend time casting HoH, I rather try to estimate who'll get dmg and mitigate that dmg by throwing out a shield. There's no encounter where nobody'll get hurt for the next 30s so a good placed shield is rarely going to rest unused. And I'd rather have 30k additional heal than 6k mana who won't be used in the fight.
There are some situations where HoH rules, just take Vezax hardmode as an example but there aren't that many fights where mana really is an issue and that leads to the conclusion that HoH is not a overly useful spell.

To be honest there isnt any fight in ToC/ToGC that you should "need" HoH. As Holy in there the only time where I see a little...strain may be twins. Our other priest is holy that fight where I go disc and spam shield on range. Other then that being holy for the rest of the instance I have zero mana issues. So therefore any Disc priest should just LoL at that instance for mana. And a properly times HoH can return a lot of mana (fiend, innervate etc). Even though we havn't had to use it very often in this recent LoL (Toc). It still is a good spell. Like you said there hasn't been a fight where you "Can't" waste a GCD or ~5 secs to cast this.

I'm also interested in how you get 16k mana back from rapture on a set of shields? Or am I just misunderstanding that? Doesnt the proc on rapture have a 15 sec cd?

Senres · 12/15/09, 7:59 AM

If multiple shields burst at the same time, Rapture will return mana for all of them. I exploited that all the time on Kologarn.

Holymal · 12/15/09, 8:18 AM

Originally Posted by Kashir

Regarding [Althor's Abacus]:

Can confirm that it's a typical ~45s ICD, though the proc rate is lower than most (I'd guess about 20%). It procs on HoT ticks, which means Druids will have the shortest intervals (though not by a huge degree). It also procs on PWS glyph heals. Not sure if it procs on PoM bounces.

It's definitely not random targetting. I'm not sure whether it always heals the lowest health, or whether it selects from any target with a health deficit. This can include pets.

Quite a decent trinket. I'd probably use double Solace if I had them, but that's more to do with Solace being insanely overpowered than Abacus being weak.

Confirmed on this, as a holy priest this trinket works very well for me. Going back and looking tonight from our twins 25 togc it procced 7 times (low, but not a long fight by any means) Eff healing was ~50k and Overhealing was only ~2500.

Not having double solace I snatched this up and have been very happy with the results. It does not add/cause a shield while valnyr is procced, so I would also assume this to be the same with DA for disc priests.

tedv · 12/15/09, 9:45 AM

Originally Posted by Sinndir

Don't discount the [Sliver of Pure Ice]. Especially when the heroic version of it will likely restore ~2000 mana every 2 minutes and probably near 200 spellpower.

The nice part about the clicky mana regen over the passive mana regen is you can use it when/if needed. Passive regen on trinkets is great but there are times where I find I just wish I could squeeze out another 'chunk' of mana.

I'm using it over Spark of Hope. The Sliver isn't better than either Solace, but it's still a good item to tide you over until you get the pieces you're looking for.

Constu · 12/15/09, 4:14 PM

Although it looks like I'll be speccing disc for the first 4 fights of ICC, my questions concern holy.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?prie...6,QH-qOR,10958

Is my proposed build. I assume with the 2 set bonuses both focusing on FH, 5/5 emp healing will be a very good idea. Does anyone have any arguments against this?

I usually run with B&S for its utility; if I see a use for this I will take 2 out of emp healing and take B&S. Would 3/5 emp healing be worth it or would it be better to fill up emp renew? I have never heard good arguments for widespread use of renew, but has anyone seen good uses for it early in ICC, aka is it worth it to go 3/3 and get the glyph?

Speaking of glyphs, I haven't seen much about holy nova here in awhile. Are people still making heavy use of this spell after the glyph was badly nerfed? Or are people finding more success with the poh/renew glyphs?

Thanks for any input in advance.

Kashir · 12/15/09, 6:12 PM

Originally Posted by Constu

I have never heard good arguments for widespread use of renew, but has anyone seen good uses for it early in ICC, aka is it worth it to go 3/3 and get the glyph?

If you didn't consider Renew worth using before, I don't see why anything would have changed your mind recently.

Personally I've been specced 3/3, 3/3 and glyphed for Renew since ToC, and am more than happy with the results. Flash Heal is a poor spell for the WotLK raid healing environment; a weak, random proc HoT from our 2-piece bonus does little to change that, and that's assuming you bother to take any tier pieces at all. I'm more than happy to let everyone else collect their tokens.

The sole saving grace of FH is Serendipity, and for the ToC encounters that just wasn't compelling enough for me. We'll see how critical PoH is to our healing in the later Icecrown encounters; until then, I see no reason to return to favouring FH over Renew.

Kyonyuu · 12/15/09, 8:05 PM

Originally Posted by Constu

I usually run with B&S for its utility; if I see a use for this I will take 2 out of emp healing and take B&S. Would 3/5 emp healing be worth it or would it be better to fill up emp renew? I have never heard good arguments for widespread use of renew, but has anyone seen good uses for it early in ICC, aka is it worth it to go 3/3 and get the glyph?

Speaking of glyphs, I haven't seen much about holy nova here in awhile. Are people still making heavy use of this spell after the glyph was badly nerfed? Or are people finding more success with the poh/renew glyphs?

Like Kashir I see no point to change your current opinion about Renew in the first ICC encounters...
If you liked using Renew before ICC you will still like it in ICC - if you didn't - at least in the first 4 encounter - there is nothing that will change your mind.

Renew vs. FlashHeal-Usage is a matter of personal playstyle and raid composition - running a lot of resto-druids will make the usage of Renew more or less obsolete since their HoTs will stabilize the tanks quite well. Running a lot of holy paladins may increase the value of Renew...

I personally tend to Renew since e.g. Lord Marrowgar is a nice encounter to keep your HoT rolling on 2 or 3 tanks or stabilize a Bone Prison-victim while Flash Heal will either be overhealing or way too low to prevent the tank from dying. Concerning raid-healing it usually doesn't matter if you went 3/5 Emp. Healing or 5/5 Emp. Healing (or even 0/5 Emp. Healing) since CoH/PoM/PoH are the majority of your raid healing utilities - and a 5k-Flash Heal will prevent your Warlock, who was hit by a random-AoE-effect, from dying as well as a 5,5k-Flash Heal will do - but if you want to be sure what Emp. Healing does for you take a look at your webstats and take a look at the original post where the mechanic is explained in detail.

I dislike the Renew-glyph because it shortens Renew's duration and makes me spend more GCDs on keeping my Renews on the tanks reducing my time to raid-heal (although the Renew-glyph usually increases my healing output in the meters more than the PoH-glyph does...but who cares about healing meters, right?)

Kashir · 12/15/09, 9:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kyonyuu

I dislike the Renew-glyph because it shortens Renew's duration and makes me spend more GCDs on keeping my Renews on the tanks reducing my time to raid-heal (although the Renew-glyph usually increases my healing output in the meters more than the PoH-glyph does...but who cares about healing meters, right?)

Actually, to be completely honest, the main reason I'm using the Renew glyph was because it made my Twin Valkyr healing "rotation" incredibly easy. A 12 second Renew fits a 2xCoH cycle neatly, so I could always roll on the same people. I get confused easily, ok? :p

For most fights, I don't think it's a huge deal either way. If we had a decent glyph for our 3rd slot it would be an easy choice, but... Flash Heal? Meh. Prayer of Healing? Negligible. Holy Nova? Decent, but too situational.