WotLK Healing Discussion v3.3: Icecrown Citadel awaits! - Page 10

Feebis · 02/03/10, 5:29 PM

It appears that you can guardian spirit her but only once per minute.

Padruthor · 02/03/10, 5:32 PM

The other theory would be then that the first priests' cooldown has to finish first before the other priest can cast it again. Basically rendering more than one holy priest in the raid useless - or the use of the glyph of guardian spirit.

Vintoran · 02/03/10, 11:42 PM

The application of Guardian Spirit on Valithria debuffs her with "Weakened Spirit" for one minute during which no one can cast a new GS on her, very much like Power Word: Shield and Weakened Soul. It's even the same debuff icon.
Observed in our 25men raid yesterday.

RamonKahn · 02/04/10, 7:25 AM

Originally Posted by jkhtown

I had a hard time tank healing Festergut the other day. My question is - is a Disc priest with a 5.1k GS capable of solo-healing the tanks during 10 man Festergut?
...
flash of light, penance, and PWS as fast as I can just to keep up with the damage. However, I can't do this very long before I run close to OOM. My paladin has no such issues - I have enough healing power that I don't need to spam HL over and over, and even when I do, I can chain cast much longer than my disc priest can.

I guess this depends on the gear of your tank as well as on your gear. And it is quite a difference if you have a shaman and somebody with Replenishment in your group or not.
If you use Flash Heal often, you might consider the Flash Heal glyph instead of your Pain Suppression Glyph. Spending your talent points in Enlightment and Improved Flash Heal should also help. You might also opt to get some better trinkets.

As for the phase when the incoming damage on tanks gets a little harder to heal, your tank needs to use his cooldowns and the other healers need to switch on the tank. Our group uses a warrior tank and he uses Last Stance and then Shield Wall to mitigate the damage. If you are really desperate for mana, stop shielding the tank as soon as he uses his cooldown and shield the whole raid - as soon as the boss casts the new spore clouds, you'll get more than enough mana back through Rapture. You should just remember to inform the other healers that you are not casting on the tank.

Another idea might be to use a paladin tank and do the boss with just one tank. The paladin has to remove his debuffs with Divine Shield and a cancelaura makro, this worked for us when we let our second tank die yesterday.

As for Valithria, as soon as one Healer enteres the emerald dream every time the portal spawns and stacks the +healing buff, at least the 10-Player encounter gets trivialized. And as long as you remove the disease, the tanks won't die.

Hellheim · 02/04/10, 2:04 PM

Originally Posted by jkhtown

I had a hard time tank healing Festergut the other day. My question is - is a Disc priest with a 5.1k GS capable of solo-healing the tanks during 10 man Festergut?

I was assigned to only heal the tanks. I never healed anyone in the raid. I spammed flash heal/penance/pws/pom on the first tank until the switch, then I began doing the same on the second tank. Shortly after the first tank switch I was down to 25% of my mana (I had around 27k buffed). During the time it took to cast shadowfiend I fell behind on heals and the tank died, even after using Pain Suppression. (The boss was around 40% I think). Both tanks had 45k HP, and I was healing with a resto druid and resto sham. I don't know if they were helping to heal the tanks.

Knocked out Fester the other day with myself (disc) and a druid healing. I focused primarily on the tanks and occasionally bubbling the raid during the 0 inhale phase, and the druid focused on the raid at first then coming in to help as the inhales increased. Once the 3rd inhale hits, the tank blows their cooldown and I staggered pain suppression so that the tank is getting some help for a majority of the 3rd inhale phase. After blight hits, I'll then use a binding heal on the tank then hit divine hymn and then win.

I do have the 2p t10 and I will only use a cooldown to help elsewhere in the raid is if I have Blessed Healing stacked on the tank. I wasn't sold on the new tier 2p, but I've seen it give me some breathing room for when I want to throw out a greater heal, or if I need to bubble someone else in the raid.

When we first started doing ICC 25, I was having severe mana issues. Since I've become familiar with the fights and picked up/regem'd gear I seem to be good again as long as I use pots, fiend, and hymn.

kamaia · 02/04/10, 4:36 PM

Originally Posted by Vintoran

The application of Guardian Spirit on Valithria debuffs her with "Weakened Spirit" for one minute during which no one can cast a new GS on her, very much like Power Word: Shield and Weakened Soul. It's even the same debuff icon.
Observed in our 25men raid yesterday.

This is the spell for those interested.

Weakened Spirit - Spell - World of Warcraft

kamaia · 02/05/10, 11:43 AM

I need to retract this post. I made a calculation error, which is explained fully at WotLK Healing Compendium v3.3: Arthas' downfall! and the following few posts. I'm leaving the original here for reference since the mistake is discussed elsewhere, rather than trying to mitigate my embarrassment and simply deleting this.

Originally Posted by MADMark

SP/Spirit is not ideal for disc, [Royal Dreadstone] will give you more regeneration.

This is not true. It used to be the conventional wisdom that MP5 was better for disc, but the regen per point of spirit scales with intellect as well. I have summarized the relationship in the graph below. Since the choice is between 5 MP5 and 10 Spirit, any value above 0.5 means spirit gives you more regen per itemization point. That is, above ~950 intelect you should be gemming for Spirit, not MP5 as disc.

Edit: I am deleting the chart because there's no point in leaving it up incorrect. Below is what the chart should have looked like. I had confused the yellow curve with the blue one.

Carnathagia · 02/05/10, 12:09 PM

We found our Holy Priests as the best for prioritizing the raid over Valithria for this fight due to their high burst potential, low single target throughput, and flexibility. We had some discussion as to how to heal Valithria when the opportunity arose (the raid was topped off and no incoming damage). Since mana isn't an issue, and sniping isn't an issue, the highest throughput priority would be Guardian Spirit > Renew > Serendipitied Greater Heal > Greater Heal > Flash Heal.

COmparing Greater Heal, Flash Heal, Serendipity, and the value of Empowered Healing for Valithria

Here is the math for the two. For simplicity and readability I ignore the effects of twin disciplines, blessed resilience, spiritual healing, critical heal chance, and haste since they will affect both spells relatively equally. Actual heal numbers will be higher due to these effects.

Greater Heal

((3950+4590[BASE])/2[AVERAGE])+(3500[SPELLPOWER]*1.6135)=9917
9917/2.5=3966.8 HPS without Serendipity
9917/1.6=6198.1 HPS with Serendipity

With 3/5 Empowered Healing
((3950+4590[BASE])/2[AVERAGE])+(3500[SPELLPOWER]*1.6135)+(3500[SPELLPOWER]*.24)=10337
10337/2.5=4134.9 HPS without Serendipity
10337/1.6=6460.8 HPS with Serendipity

Flash Heal

((1187+2193[BASE])/2[AVERAGE])+(3500[SPELLPOWER]*0.8068)=4513
4513/1.5=3008 HPS

With 3/5 Empowered Healing
((1187+2193[BASE])/2[AVERAGE])+(3500[SPELLPOWER]*0.8068)+(3500[SPELLPOWER]*0.12)=4934
4934/1.5=3289.2 HPS

Serendipity

((4513*3[3 FHEALS])+9917[1 GHEAL)/(1.5+1.5+1.5+1.6[CAST TIME])=3845.2 HPS

With 3/5 Empowered Healing
((4934*3[3 FHEALS])+10337[1 GHEAL)/(1.5+1.5+1.5+1.6[CAST TIME])=4121.1 HPS

Total HPS

Flash Heal spam = 3008 HPS
Flash Heal spam with 3/5 EH = 3289.2
Serendipity = 3845.2
GHeal spam = 3966.8
Serendipity with 3/5 EH =4121.1
GHeal spam with 3/5 EH = 4134.9

RootBreaker · 02/05/10, 1:16 PM

If you aren't using 2 piece T10, binding heal will always be better than flash heal for dreamwalker healing (assuming mana isn't an issue), since it has a higher base heal value and benefits from divine providence. With 4000 spell power and 5/5 empowered healing, and assuming that the Flash Heal hot double dips from the Valithria healing buff (which it appears to do), flash heal beats binding heal at 5 stacks of the debuff. In practice, this means that if you're taking portals, you should binding heal over flash heal until your first portal, and use flash heal after that. If mana isn't an issue and you aren't taking portals, you can quickly make it an issue by using binding over flash heal, but you'll slightly increase your HPS.

All calculations ignoring things that affect FH and BH equally. These are only relative values.

The other advantage of binding heal is that it will heal the damage you take from the debuff in heroic mode at a very small cost to healing dreamwalker relative to anyone else healing you (or healing yourself in any other way).

Flash Heal
(((1.5/3.5*1.88)+0.2)*4000 +2040[BASE])*(1+0.33*0.33[SET BONUS w/ 0 STACKS])=6723 Healing

(((1.5/3.5*1.88)+0.2)*4000 +2040[BASE])*(1+0.33*0.33*1.2[SET BONUS w/ 4 STACKS])=6855 Healing

(((1.5/3.5*1.88)+0.2)*4000 +2040[BASE])*(1+0.33*0.33*1.25[SET BONUS w/ 5 STACKS])=6888 Healing

Binding heal
(((1.5/3.5*1.88)+0.2)*4000+2230[BASE])*1.1[DIVINE PROVIDENCE]=6878 Healing

Caliste · 02/05/10, 2:28 PM

In my 25man group I was elected to stay out of the portals entirely (along with two druids) to focus entirely on the raid. Throwing heals on Dreamwalker when we could of course. That night we had two shamans and two paladins taking every portal to maximize their stacks. After every second portal I would throw up GS to help maximize their heals.

I'm wondering if this is the best way to assign healers. Should the raid-focused healers stay out entirely or should we try to rotate in also? My hps was fairly low since I did not get the buff. I'm not sure if that's hurting us or not. I do have to say that there was a lot of raid damage and I personally felt that dps on the adds was far too slow. As a result I really didn't have much time to heal Dreamwalker myself.

Carnathagia · 02/05/10, 3:04 PM

We rotated the two raid healers into the portals mostly for the MP5 buff so they could go completely nuts with the rest of us on Valithria when the raid is topped off. 1 Holy Priest was able to handle the raid damage for a few seconds once everyone learned what to avoid and what to kill quickly, while the other picked up the buff. Your mileage may vary with incoming raid damage, dps, and the ability of your healers.

Primortul · 02/06/10, 11:40 AM

Im having a big problem with festergut. Im holy and obviously on raid heals but with GCD's i seem to be having a lot of trouble keeping people alive through the first three phases. Im using mostly PoM CoH Flash Heal to get 3 stacks of serendipity then PoH. I dont usually cast renew. Will it make that much of a difference if i do cast renew on everyone in the beginning and then dont worry about it after the first inhale or is it to mana inefficient? I was also only at 5K on the dot GS now im over 5200 will that make that much of a difference?

RootBreaker · 02/06/10, 3:38 PM

Yes, if you replace all your flash heals and prayer of healings with renew, you'll do much better on festergut. Prayer of healing is designed to top people off after they take a large burst of damage, not to keep them up through ticking auras, and flash heal is about half the healing of a renew.

moowalk · 02/07/10, 5:58 PM

I was thinking of making a log parser that attempted to value heals received at low health more greatly than heals received at higher health. I'm surprised that this hasn't been attempted before, so perhaps I am biting off more than I can chew.

It would even be useful to do this for just the main tank in some fights, and I will probably do this first.

I have a few questions.

What sort of curve would be best for valueing lower health healing?

Is there any way to work out people's max health from a log (Short of them dying)? Or would it be necessary to input this information separately?

Shields will make this much more complicated to calculate. But firstly, conceptually, how would shields change the calculations? Should the shield be counted as effective health, and any heals that land after the shield are treated as if they had (current health + shield value)? What happens if the player is healed to maximum health and the shield is not used up? Is the shield overhealing?

Hegen · 02/07/10, 6:47 PM

Originally Posted by moowalk

What sort of curve would be best for valueing lower health healing?

This starts with debating whether healing at low health is more desireable at all.

Personally, I don't think so. Letting targets (especially the tank) drop intentionally is mostly a bad idea. In most encounters where healing is a challenge, we really want to keep people above a pretty high percentage of their HP, if not topped up (disregarding exotic stuff like General Vezax and Anub P3).

I think what you want to achieve is "reward" a healer for "that one heal" that saved the show because it pushed a 20K heal into the tank when he was about to die. If so, I think that's not going to work out, as he - may - be the same healer who shouldn't have endangered the tank in that way. And you will never be able to differentiate that from a healer who just had to move by staring into the log only.