Shadowpriest Theorycraft 3.3 Edition - I get by with a little help from my friends - Page 13

Illeria · 03/16/10, 6:24 PM

Originally Posted by l337n00b

Regarding Improved Mind Blast:

I don't think it's even a question that you should dump them and get something else.

Regarding imp Mind Blast this issues has been brought up to previously and i'll state the same conclusive argument. What are you giong to use these freed up points on?

Bowchikabow · 03/16/10, 7:45 PM

Originally Posted by Illeria

Regarding imp Mind Blast this issues has been brought up to previously and i'll state the same conclusive argument. What are you giong to use these freed up points on?

Well, you could try this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

But that is more for humors sake than actual use.

In all seriousness I agree with the notion that, overall, it is not practically useful to remove MB from your rotation. While it is at this point opinion (I am working on the math), increases of less than 300dps in the most optimal of conditions don't seem reliable with current encounters how they are. At this point, only a modest number of Shadow priests are not wearing 4pc T10, couple that with the swelling of per player average haste rating (I believe this was solved to 1000-1100) And you should be fine with MFx3, or 4 non-clipped with a MB before the next spam.

If one really wishes to shave points from improved Mind Blast, possibly to extend Mind flay use with out eliminating Mind Blast from the rotation, then perhaps this would be a useful alternative.

Frmercury · 03/16/10, 9:35 PM

This is a repeated topic and if you have not already read the previous posts on here in relation to that you should. Both Griemak's words and Myopic's Spreadsheet should be taken into account when contemplating dropping MB and / or specing (at least partially) out of it.

One highlight being:

4. DoT uptime can suffer. Currently, Simulationcraft is showing an overall DPS loss when dropping MB. One reason among many is that the DP and VT uptime suffers due to the filler spell, MF, being a longer cast to finish before refreshing the DoT than using the binary filler spells of MB and MF. (can be negated by clipping MF at 2 ticks, requires higher precision and enters in more risk)

I personally have taken some points out of Imp MB for FM (MS heavy fights ie LK) and SA for a personal convenience factor since it has become fairly common to fit MB into convenient gaps in rotation rather than on CD. I just found after a couple weeks of 4pc T10 that those gaps were at least seconds longer than the CD with 5/5 Imp MB. Mileage may vary of course due to your level of haste and presence of WoA and SR / Imp Moonkin. I will probably take another point out in favor of 3/3 FM when we're seriously working on H LK (25).

jdgaynor · 03/24/10, 7:50 PM

I uploaded a newer version of the spreadsheet to my post where I released it. This version has a bug fix or two, and has updated stats on the Phylactery.

bol · 04/01/10, 8:00 PM

re:spreadsheet

Just making sure I'm not being a numpty; as an alchemist with mixology i'm adding the 47 point bonus I get to my flask into my base Bonus Damage (skills like JC show it passively in the Bonus Damage as it is always active), maybe a further tickbox to your sheet for alchemy would prevent people not realising to add it in? (If i may be so bold)

Morrinth · 04/16/10, 12:33 PM

drfdstokes · 04/28/10, 8:32 PM

Well there are actually places you can place the points from mb talent, with higher end raiding gear spriest start to quite abit of threat u can spec fully or partially into Shadow Affinity and Improved VE is also a great talent for several encounters. Both of those talents take up the 5 points or you could spec 2 points in SA and take Inner Focus.

Midnight68652 · 05/02/10, 8:31 PM

Originally Posted by bentglasstube

I might be missing something, but shouldn't Arcane Empowerment (Damage Buff) and Wrath of Air Totem (Spell Haste) be included in the list of relevant buffs?

I'm thinking those two arn't included because they arn't stacked over top of anything so you would defenitly have them in your raid.

Drayyk · 05/29/10, 7:27 AM

From the OP:

Originally Posted by Mearis

Regular Enchants

Slot	Enchant
Chest	Enchant Chest - Powerful Stats

Does this still hold true? With my admittedly crappy gear, I appear to get more from Major Spirit. (5 Spi > 10 Int + 10 Stam)

Am I missing something obvious?

Edit: the link in the sidebar should be to Kob, an SPriest on Madoran

CaseyTheRetard · 05/31/10, 7:03 AM

Originally Posted by Drayyk

With my admittedly crappy gear, I appear to get more from Major Spirit. (5 Spi > 10 Int + 10 Stam)

In my gear, the difference between 15 Spirit and 10 stats is 8 DPS. 8 DPS vs. 10 stamina is more a question of personal preference than min-maxing. It would make sense to list both enchants in the OP.

tedv · 06/01/10, 9:21 AM

I would not bust someone's balls for having +10 all stats over +15 spirit, but it's hard to argue that 10 stamina beats 8 DPS. I mean, none of the other gearing arguments made about priests even consider the impact of stamina. There certainly exists a trade off point at which I'd rather have stamina, but it's much higher than 10 stam : 3 spell power, or roughly 3 to 1. I suspect it's in the 10:1 to 30:1 to range.

• Snowy · 06/01/10, 9:59 AM

Interesting, when I run simcraft 10k times through each enchant on my current profile, I got the exact same DPS number -- 11659. (and yes, I double checked to make sure I actually was not running the exact same stats twice) Yet the stat weighting would still suggest that the +5 spirit would be worth very slightly more than the +10 int. If you're truly interested in maximizing every last drop of DPS, then 15 spirit is the way to go.

dusknoir.net · 06/01/10, 8:17 PM

According to the scale factors for spirit and intellect used by shadowpriest.com's BIS list (which obviously won't be 100% accurate for everybody) the difference between the two is 0.75 pseudopower. DPS parses for my character with SimulationCraft gave me results that agree with this. So, the comparison is probably much lower than 8 DPS and in most cases closer to 1 or 2. Of course, the only way to really be sure is to run SimulationCraft for your own character.

Frmercury · 06/02/10, 4:25 AM

Yeah I did test this out the other day when I was looking at BiS Profession combos (with Izolight's BiS setup) and found it actually wasn't always a DPS increase oddly enough. [20k iterations, no FM, no Inner Focus, 300 seconds, Patchwerk, Elite, Low]

BiS JC and Eng - +10 Stats was higher DPS
BiS Eng and Tlr - +15 Spirit was higher DPS
BiS JC and Tlr - +15 Spirit was higher DPS

Then using a no Profession setup:

BiS +10 Stats - 12, 575 DPS
BiS +15 Spirit - 12, 575 DPS

I also found it curious that I got 4 more DPS for using 3 Purified Dreadstones over Runed Cardinal Rubies for +5 SP socket bonuses. I also found a DPS loss when Simming all of these with Black Magic.

Edit: /facepalm, I deleted the 15 Spirit BiS profile, but that was the only change.

Bowchikabow · 06/05/10, 4:47 AM

I have found that while simcrafting various gear setup's, when I increase my crit rate by 3% or higher, my spirit scaling increases. Could your sims be giving you a generous dps boost from improved spirit+glyph of shadow? With no raid buffs your profile is sitting at 281 spirit. 30% of that spirit would be about 93 equivalent spellpower. If you are using Patchwerk mode, you may have had a high up-time on Glyph of shadow, resulting in higher dps for the duration of the fight.

I have seen the same instances in similar sims I have conducted, though my increases were only 2 to 3. I attribute that to my lower overall spirit.