So the conclusion is to carry a stack of each type of useful glyphs for the 3rd slot: Glyph of Mind Sear, Shadow Word: Pain, Dispersion and maybe even Hymn of Hope if any hard mode fight will be very mana intensive for the raid. Instead of discussing which glyph is best, let's be more fight specific.
Hymn of hope? Hmmm, that would be really wierd. Doen't it still have the issue that classes with small mana pools get targetted first (hunters, ret, enh?).
What is the appropriate use of cooldown stacking for shadow as of 3.3?
My priest is a troll as well as an engineer and I've been looking around as best I can on here and shadowpriest.com to find the most ideal way to use all of my haste cooldowns to gain the most dps.
Does anyone have a link to any relevant information on this? I read the bloodlust post in the think tank, which ultimately told me its ideal to sync all cooldowns with bloodlust. This is what I've been doing, but with the amount of haste we're getting to at this point I'm beginning to feel like there may be a better strategy out there.
The cooldowns I am trying to manage are:
Bloodlust
Hyperspeed Accelerators
Berserking
Potion of Speed
Potion of Wild Magic (Pre-potting with this only if I know bloodlust will come later)
Power Infusion (I can basically get this whenever I ask for it)
Thanks in advance for any work put into this topic.
Ok - first of all.
Bloodlust and PI do not stack, so you obviously do not want to stack them. Second, your main concern is not hitting the GCD cap - bloodlust alone is slightly wasted on most shadowpriests since it pushes your mindblast below the 1 second GCD cap. There is an excellent post in this thread about when you should drop mindblast from your rotation that you can look at.
Finally, stacking cooldowns makes sense when the effects are multiplicative - which effects are multiplicative and which are additive is by no means trivial to figure out and you'll have to do your own homework on that.
Bloodlust and PI do not stack, so you obviously do not want to stack them. Second, your main concern is not hitting the GCD cap - bloodlust alone is slightly wasted on most shadowpriests since it pushes your mindblast below the 1 second GCD cap. There is an excellent post in this thread about when you should drop mindblast from your rotation that you can look at.
Finally, stacking cooldowns makes sense when the effects are multiplicative - which effects are multiplicative and which are additive is by no means trivial to figure out and you'll have to do your own homework on that.
Yeah, I know not to stack PI and bloodlust, the main point of listing PI was to identify instances where it would be worthwhile to stack it with something else, like the engineering gloves during periods where bloodlust was not active but other cooldowns were available. I should have been more clear about that. Additionally, I have read the thread on sp.com about dropping mindblast from the rotation.
Aa far as I know, percentage based haste effects are multiplicative and haste rating stacks additively.
Hymn of hope? Hmmm, that would be really wierd. Doen't it still have the issue that classes with small mana pools get targetted first (hunters, ret, enh?).
I haven't used it yet since no fights have been really mana intensive, but raiding with 4 priests in every 25man raid it could be useful for some fights Lady Deathwhisper. We chain Hymn when Anub starts his first chase during the second burrow phase and it basically fills the mana pools of the entire raid. Of course I wouldn't consider using it if we had a really useful 3rd glyph but that's not the case so why not give some extra raid utility if the fight supports it.
And to stacking haste cooldowns with eachother below the GCD cap - it's very useful if you manage to get extra VT ticks in on some low-health adds. Think Deathbringer Saurfang here - pop your Engineering enchant plus Berserking and load VTs on all the Blood Beasts. Heroism alone is enough for me personally to have all 3-4 VTs I cast almost tick their full duration so I use Potion of Speed seperately just before a wave of Blood Beasts instead of timing it with Heroism.
Mearis: You could add a suggestion to the title post about using focus-cast VT/SWP macros along with a DoT tracking addon showing focus DoTs, and using that to run a two-target DPS rotation. It's superbly easy to add 20% to your damage with this method.
The reason for stacking cooldowns with bloodlust is to cast as many spells under the effect of positive damage modifiers, such as spellpower from lightweave procs or trample at Northrend beasts. Classes without execute range or damage modifier spells or abilities are more versatile in their use of haste effects. I currently use my haste potion with dislodged foreign object procs, in situations where I don't risk surpassing the soft cap. It can also be used with advantage during trinket procs or activations, as well as the above mentioned lightweave proc. The more, the merrier.
TL;DR use as many haste buffs along with your strongest damage modifiers as possible, without surpassing the soft cap.
Here's a cool tool for any class that can reach a soft haste cap. It simply allows you to check your raidbuffs, potions, hyperspeed accelerators, setboni, and tells you how much over the cap you will be with a combination of those used at the same time.
Since people are starting to get their T10 4pc, I was wondering if anyone had a chance to see if Quartz MF Latency 2 is still accurate to use for MF2 clipping. I don't know if we will ever have to clip to MF2 with the 4pc bonus, but I wanted to make sure.
The MFClip addon will still work since it counts the number of damage ticks done. Visit a target dummy. If you're not familiar with the addon, just correctly clip a MF2 like you normally would and count the number of ticks in your recount.
If you want to take my word for it (since I've done the above), the Quartz MF2 latency addon still works.
Note that MF2 clipping with 4PT10 will only increase your damage very slightly, and any error made in the clipping will instead cause you to lose damage along with the damage you gained from clipping. It will also be hard to execute in these high haste times.
Clipping MF at 2 ticks
Some shadowpriests clip MF at 2 ticks in order to get more Mind Blasts. Is this beneficial? How precisely do you have to clip so that you don't lose DPS? I will compare two scenarios:
I) 3 ticks of mindflay, plus delay, then mindblast.
II) 2 ticks of mindflay, plus delay, then mindblast.
It was rightfully pointed out that you get a similar delay whether you clip with 2 ticks or 3. The question is, how much delay does it take to make clipping counterproductive?
For these comparisons we will use a base haste value of 511 Haste Rating. This translates into 15.58% haste from gear, which multiplied with 8.15% Haste from raidbuffs equals exactly 25% Haste. Therefore, Mind Blast will cast in 1.2 seconds and Mind Flay will tick every 0.8 seconds.
This is a fairly high number, meaning that latency should not make clipping counter-productive. However, the point remains that even "perfect" MF clipping provides a vanishingly small DPS benefit. For this reason, if you have any uncertainty about MF clipping (for example, if you mis-clip and wind up with MF1) then you should not do it at all.
Note that MF2 clipping with 4PT10 will only increase your damage very slightly, and any error made in the clipping will instead cause you to lose damage along with the damage you gained from clipping. It will also be hard to execute in these high haste times.
Assuming you have the skill/latency to do so, clipping for VT/DP is still a worthwhile increase - this post just suggests that clipping for a MB cooldown is minimal and risky.
hi i was wondering with the icc content for a spriest best in slot weapon is it better to go with 1H/off hander or a staff and for 1handers when would you go with black magic enchant insted of spell power. i'm Tailor is it better and cheaper to just make Sanctified Spellthread insted of Brilliant Spellthread you might want to add that to the profession only enchants chart thank you
hi i was wondering with the icc content for a spriest best in slot weapon is it better to go with 1H/off hander or a staff and for 1handers when would you go with black magic enchant insted of spell power. i'm Tailor is it better and cheaper to just make Sanctified Spellthread insted of Brilliant Spellthread you might want to add that to the profession only enchants chart thank you
One hander + off-hand is the way to go at the moment and black magic is slightly ahead of 63 spellpower.
Single Target
Priority:
* Ensure that Misery is up.
* Recast Shadow Word: Pain at 5x Shadow Weaving.
* Vampiric Touch
* Devouring Plague
* Mind Blast
* Mind Flay
1. Mind Blast on cooldown.
2. Cast Mind Flay when everything else is up or on cooldown.
3. Use Shadow Word Death to deal damage while moving
Single Target
Priority:
* Ensure that Misery is up.
* Recast Shadow Word: Pain at full boss debuffs + 5x Shadow Weaving (addon).
* Vampiric Touch
* Devouring Plague
* Mind Flay/Mind Blast (MF when BL/Hero)
1. Use mindblast when the recasttime of either VT or DP is < 2 Tick Mindflay.
2. When 1 doesn't occur, Mind Blast on cooldown.
3. Cast Mind Flay when everything else is up or on cooldown.
4. Use Shadow Word Death to deal damage while moving.
5. Spam DP while moving as long as mana allows.
And a shameless bump:
Originally Posted by Frmercury
I would suggest anyone still using Quartz + MF Latency 2 switch over to: Gnosis - Addons - Curse. It will show all channeled spell ticks.
Graf - point 5 of the single target damage list only applies once you obtain 4 piece, right?
Its really hard to tell when it applies, simcraft can't simulate it (yet?).
I did it even before i got 4pT10, but it depends on haste/lag levels ofc.
Its basicly what you cast inbetween VT and DP, and how well the other 2 spells (MF/MB)
fit inbetween VT/DP resfreshes. Trail and error.
Since VT/DP are affected by haste, the time inbetween casts is also affected.
Since VT/DP's lenght are different, they shift timewise in relation to each other.
Combine that with the lenght of/and speed of MF and MB, and its impossible predict.
So the calculations shifted from damage to lenght/time, since they both so close in dmg.
Everytime VT/DP recast comes close, you have to make a decision which to cast, based on time, not dmg.
Makes the heroic version of this mace better than heroic bonespike. BiS 1hander. (Coupled with the BiS offhand it comes to 1230.1pp, meaning the BiS setup.)
Once again the top ilvl holds no well itemized weapons for hybrid damage casters. In sum, there's not a single well itemized hybrid usable dps caster weapon in all of ICC25. It boggles the mind that they can't just make the top caster weapon a dagger or a staff for once.
Once again the top ilvl holds no well itemized weapons for hybrid damage casters. In sum, there's not a single well itemized hybrid usable dps caster weapon in all of ICC25. It boggles the mind that they can't just make the top caster weapon a dagger or a staff for once.
Lots of classes can argue that they have badly itemized loot. All strength items, except some weapons, are very badly itemized (4 stats vs 5 stats, excess stamina). Non-DoT spell DPSers only get a single trinket (the DFO) in all of ICC25. Frost DK tanks have to make do with suboptimal weapon itemization (there are no slow tanking weapons, so you choose between very poor threat or less tank stats). A lot of classes have fairly bad T10 set bonuses (hello elemental shamans) while we have two devastatingly powerful bonuses.
Not everything can be optimal for everyone. In the short run, it's better to lose out on Arthas loot (which will be in severe shortage for many months) but have lots of usable gear choices from earlier in the instance. A few months later, yeah we'll lose out on some Haste. In the long run, we're all level-100.
Shin from Exodus on Ysondre won a Phylactery of the Nameless Lich.
He reports a 90second ICD and it taking roughly 5 seconds to proc after the ICD is finished.
To my knowledge, pre-3.3, spellpower was only updated for VT and DP on cast, and afaik this did not change in 3.3.
In 3.3.0, haste for VT and DP was only calculated on cast.
Then they fixed rolling hasted corruptions, so that the haste updates (although the official statement was not clear on when or how). So does haste (and possibly spellpower) update for VT and DP as they tick or do they still follow the 3.3.0 rules?
If there was any discussion on what the best glyph DPS wise to use would be since the 3.3 changes: Sindragosa should remove any doubt of how indispensable Dispersion is. Nonstop DPSing while having the Unchained Magic debuff then Dispersion / Cancelaura for the Backlash is a huge increase over stopping every few stacks (ofc).
To my knowledge, pre-3.3, spellpower was only updated for VT and DP on cast, and afaik this did not change in 3.3.
In 3.3.0, haste for VT and DP was only calculated on cast.
Then they fixed rolling hasted corruptions, so that the haste updates (although the official statement was not clear on when or how). So does haste (and possibly spellpower) update for VT and DP as they tick or do they still follow the 3.3.0 rules?
For warlocks, when Drain Life, Drain Soul, Haunt, or Shadowbolt land, that's when it updates Corruption's spellpower and haste values. There is no mechanic like this for VT/DP. Their haste is never "updated" when your haste changes (only on recast). Similarly, SW:P's spellpower only "updates" when it's refreshed with Mind Flay.
To summarize: the corruption haste changes had no effect on shadow priests.
Do you guys plan to drop improved mind blast from your talent list in order to get some of the utility talents for hard modes, such as Imp VE, Silence, etc upon receiving your tier 10 4 piece?
I can't imagine we'll cast mind blast even remotely as often as we do now, and the second part of the talent, so far, is useless in ICC.
Do you guys plan to drop improved mind blast from your talent list in order to get some of the utility talents for hard modes, such as Imp VE, Silence, etc upon receiving your tier 10 4 piece?
I can't imagine we'll cast mind blast even remotely as often as we do now, and the second part of the talent, so far, is useless in ICC.
That depends totally on what simcraft tells you for your gear set. I have one measly 264 item (Frozen Bonespike) and simcraft is telling me that MB is still about 100 DPS better.
01/20/10, 6:48 AM
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