Shadowpriest Theorycraft 3.3 Edition - I get by with a little help from my friends - Page 7

grimsworth · 02/05/10, 7:25 PM

Keep in mind the replenishment effect of casting MB. Depending on your raid comp it may not be a good idea to drop it completely. Imp. MB may help facilitate being able to cast it at an opportune time.

I really can't see where else the 5 points would be useful. You should already have Imp. VE and all the others are not really usable on boss fights. I guess you could get more regen talents if you are having mana issues though I have not for some time.

Scotch · 02/06/10, 1:57 PM

Originally Posted by Snowy

That depends totally on what simcraft tells you for your gear set. I have one measly 264 item (Frozen Bonespike) and simcraft is telling me that MB is still about 100 DPS better.

Very much this. It's entirely gear dependent beyond simply having the 4 piece bonus. The only way to find out is to do the number crunching for your specific character and determine whether or not it's worth it. I'm currently showing ~80 dps loss by removing MB, as well as the loss of replenishment, etc.

Applying that to my circumstances, it suggests that when either berserking(racial) or bloodlusting, it's worth it to drop MB from my rotation, but not otherwise.

You will have to figure out for yourself when you should or shouldn't drop mb.

Bowchikabow · 02/06/10, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Frmercury

3rd Major Glyph

If there was any discussion on what the best glyph DPS wise to use would be since the 3.3 changes: Sindragosa should remove any doubt of how indispensable Dispersion is. Nonstop DPSing while having the Unchained Magic debuff then Dispersion / Cancelaura for the Backlash is a huge increase over stopping every few stacks (ofc).

I absolutely agree. the first thing I had tried (as I hadn't read anything on backlash) was to use dispersion as a way of mitigating the damage. Personally, I don't use /cancelaura as by the time backlash is imminent (at least in a majority of situations) I find myself in need of a bit of mana anyway. One thing for people to remember though is that the debuff lasts 9sec, dispersion=6sec, an improperly timed disp can find you still dead. having 35stacks of instability is BAD when when you tank the damage.

I have powerauras warn me when I am at >=5secs that way when I hit dispersion (assume 1 second reaction, 1-2 latency) I know I will make it through.

shroudzuljin · 02/08/10, 11:11 AM

In the first post of this thread, there is a table that lists Set Bonus Effective Power. For the T9 set, the 2/5 EP (111.32) is higher then the 4/5 (87.15) set bonus.

Does this assume better items substituting for the 2 pieces replaced going from 4/5 to 2/5? Or are these values just for the specific bonus you get at each level so that at 4/5 you would see an effective power of 111.32 + 87.15?

Regards.

Brekk · 02/08/10, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by shroudzuljin

at 4/5 you would see an effective power of 111.32 + 87.15?

This. The bonuses do not take into account the stats of the slots you use to get the bonus.

Mearis · 02/09/10, 4:36 AM

The 2-piece T9 set is also amazing when multi-dotting - it should be quite easy to figure out how much of a damage increase it is when you are constantly dotting 2 or 3+ mobs.

Sinusoid · 02/10/10, 8:05 AM

Some additional usefulness for dispersion (and glyph of) would be on Festergut. A shadowpriest could really maximize his dps time by not moving for any of the spores, and then just casting dispersion during the exhale. I wouldn't worry about the constant AoE, since it gets progressively weaker and we heal ourselves a significant amount.

Elimbras · 02/10/10, 9:13 AM

Originally Posted by Sinusoid

Some additional usefulness for dispersion (and glyph of) would be on Festergut. A shadowpriest could really maximize his dps time by not moving for any of the spores, and then just casting dispersion during the exhale. I wouldn't worry about the constant AoE, since it gets progressively weaker and we heal ourselves a significant amount.

The timer between exhales is a little bit more than 2 minutes, so you don't need the glyph there.

Gourd · 02/10/10, 9:42 PM

To quote Griemak from shadowpriest.com on the topic of Mind Blast with 4pc t10:

This applies ONLY to 4piece Tier 10 bonus reducing MF base cast time by 0.51 seconds.

Raid Buffed using BiS 277 list:
Spell Power: 4140
Spell Haste: 47.57% according to Simulationcraft

MB: 1140 DPS, 8.26 second interval, 8026 DPEt
MF: 5421 DPS, 2.81 second interval, 8195 DPEt

What is the "delay" that Simulationcraft is adding to casting time for MB?
9336 dpe
8026 dpet
t = 1.1632
cast time = 1.0164
delay = 0.1468 or 147ms

From a post named 3.3 Mind Blast which was ignored after the post that conveniently added the word "Definitive" appeared:

This applies ONLY to 4piece Tier 10 bonus reducing MF base cast time by 0.51 seconds.

MB coeffecient = 0.4285 * 1.15 = 0.492775
MF coeffecient = 0.771 * 1.15 = 0.88665

MB and MF receive the same benefits from talents, glpyhs, and gear except two:
Glyph of MF= 10% increase to MF
Twin Discipline = 5% increase to MF

Mind Flay
10% * 5% increase = 1.155
1.155(588 + 0.88665x)
679.14 + 1.0240807x

Mind Blast
1020 + 0. 492775x

MF DPEt T10 = MB DPEt
(679.14 + 1.0240807x) / 2.5 = (1020 + 0.492775x) / 1.5
x = 5034.098
This number is raw, it assumes a vacuum without error or inconsistency.

Add "delay", from human error and/or latency (network and server based):

x = spell power
y = haste in % raid buffed
z = delay in miliseconds

MFcasttime = z + (2.49 / (1 + y))
MBcasttime = z + (1.5 / (1+ y))

(679.14 + 1.0240807x) / (z + (2.49 / (1 + y))) = (1020 + 0.492775x) / (z + (1.5 / (1+ y)))

y = 47.57%
z = 0.147

(679.14 + 1.0240807x) / (.147 + (2.49 / 1.4757)) = (1020 + 0.492775x) / (.147 + (1.5 / 1.4757))

(679.14 + 1.0240807x) / 1.8343 = (1020 + 0.492775x) / 1.1634

x=3759.326 spellpower for 4pT10 MF to overtake MB with a 147ms latency + server + brain delay in casting with BiS 277 haste levels

What about me?!?

Need to simplify it down to x =

This applies ONLY to 4piece Tier 10 bonus reducing MF base cast time by 0.51 seconds.

haste% = ((haste on gear / 32.79) + 8.15) / 100
MBcast = 1.5 / (1 + haste%)
MFcast = 2.49 / (1 + haste%)

Solve for spellpower needed with MY GEAR before I drop MB from my rotation for a DPS gain.

Code:
x=((1020*(MFcast+delay))-(679.14*(MBcast+delay)))/((1.0240807*(MBcast+delay))-(0.492775*(MFcast+delay)))

Plot or plug and chug away.

This applies ONLY to 4piece Tier 10 bonus reducing MF base cast time by 0.51 seconds.

Sinusoid · 02/11/10, 8:26 AM

Still pushing through P3 as a guild, but I'm wondering if people are using Glyph of Mind Sear in place of Dispersion in order to better handle the Vile Spirits while they're in the air on P5.

UnholY_Prince · 02/11/10, 4:59 PM

Originally Posted by Sinusoid

Still pushing through P3 as a guild, but I'm wondering if people are using Glyph of Mind Sear in place of Dispersion in order to better handle the Vile Spirits while they're in the air on P5.

Yes. Glyph of Mind Sear is amazing for Arthas. Keep a stack of them and Dispersion in your bags.

jdgaynor · 02/13/10, 4:09 AM

@Gourdd and especially @Griemak

The math surrounding dropping MB seemed incredibly suspicious to me, so I went through and redid it myself.

First, I think that the quoted equations above get the coefficients wrong in the final formula. It is not enough to count *only* coefficients that affect Mind Flay because they are additive among coefficients that also affect Mind Blast. This would prevent you from being able to "cancel" them out when you do the final algebra.

Mind Blast is affected by the following multiplicative modifiers:
15% Shadow Form
10% Darkness
10% Shadow Weaving
10% Twisted Faith (assuming Shadow Word: Pain is up)
It also gets 115% of its spell power coefficient, which we know is 42.85%

We can express Expected Damage of a Non-Critical Mind Blast as:
DMB = (1.15)(1.10)(1.10)(1.10)(1.15*0.4285*X+1025) where X is spell power.

Mind Flay is affected by the following multiplicative modifiers:
15% Shadow Form
15% Darkness and Twin Disciplines (which are additive on each other)
10% Shadow Weaving
20% Twisted Faith and Glyph of Mind Flay (which are additive on each other) (assuming Shadow Word: Pain is up)
It also gets 115% of its spell power coefficient, which we know is 25.70% per tick or 77.10% over the whole channel.

We can express Expected Damage of a mind flay with no critical strikes as:
DMF = (1.15)(1.15)(1.10)(1.20)(1.15*0.7710*X+588) where X is spell power.

Second, observe that when we calculate the final values, we can factor out crit. If we're trying to solve for a situation where the expected damage per cast time of mind flay per execute time equals the expected damage per cast time of mind blast, then we end up with something like:
(1-c)(EDMB) + (c)(2)(1.03)EDMB = (1-c)(EDMF) + c(2)(1.03)EBMF

where c is crit chance, 1-c is non crit chance, and 2(1.03) represents critical damage and the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond meta gem bonus. We can factor out the expected damage on both sides so we get something that looks like:
(EDMB)( (1-c) + 2.06c ) = EDMF( (1-c) + 2.06c) )

We can divide out the ((1-c) + 2.06c) term so that we're left only with the expected damage per execute terms.

Third, let's look at simplifying the algebra. We're left with solving the messtastic equation:
(1.53065)(0.492775x + 1025)/(y+(1.5/(1+z))) = (1.7457)(0.88665x + 588)/(y+(2.49/(1+z))
where x is spell power during an encounter
where y is delay time, combining latency and brain lag
where z is total haste.

Note that this equation breaks at z values greater than .5, since the "actual" cast time for Mind Blast is capped by global cooldown. Since BiS gear has priests at less than 50% haste, raid buffed, I ignore this possibility. During bloodlust, or other times of temporary haste gain, the current strategy of dropping Mind Blast seems mostly obvious.

It ain't pretty, but it is right, I hope. My conclusion is that the formula posted from shadowpriest.com lowballs the gear requirement.

[EDIT] The new spreadsheet is on a later post [/EDIT]
@shadowpriests: Please check!

Griemak · 02/13/10, 3:53 PM

First, I think that the quoted equations above get the coefficients wrong in the final formula. It is not enough to count *only* coefficients that affect Mind Flay because they are additive among coefficients that also affect Mind Blast. This would prevent you from being able to "cancel" them out when you do the final algebra.

There are errors in both your formula and spreadsheet. The real question that should be asked now is the behaviour of the Glyph of Mind Flay. The ONLY difference between the old equation and the one you propose is if the 10% damage from the glyph of MF is additive to TF or multiplicative to ALL MF damage modifiers. Below is boring work:

1. DMB = (1.15)(1.10)(1.10)(1.10)(1.15*0.4285*X+1025)
Mind Blast = 992 to 1048 base damage
This is an average base hit of 1020, not 1025. MB is overrated.

2. DMF = (1.15)(1.15)(1.10)(1.20)(1.15*0.7710*X+533)
Mind Flay = 588 base damage
588, not 533, Mind Flay was underrated.

3. The spreadsheet has errors.
Cell A4 is "=((((1.15*1.1)*1.1)*1.1)*(((1.15*A2)*0.4285)+1025))" for MB, with A2 = 4000, it results in 4585.98
Cell A4 (condensed) should read "=(1.15*1.1*1.1*1.1)*((1.15*0.4285*A2)+1020)" which results in 4578.32 @ 4000 spell power

Cell A8 changed to "=(1.15*1.15*1.1*1.2)*((1.15*0.771*A2)+588)"

Cell E2 has a different formula than A4 for MB's DPE. E2 changed to "=((1.15*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.1)*((1.15*0.4285*A2)+1020))/D5"

Cell F2 has a different formula than A8 for MF's DPE. F2 changed to "=((1.15*1.15*1.10*1.2)*((1.15*0.771*A2)+588))/D8"

Result? False becomes true at 860haste + minor + major raid buffs (37%) and 4,000 spell power.

Let's correct this bad boy:

(1.53065)(0.492775x + 1025)/(y+(1.5/(1+z))) = (1.7457)(0.88665x + 533)/(y+(2.49/(1+z))

Should read: (1.53065)(0.492775x + 1020)/(y+(1.5/(1+z))) = (1.7457)(0.88665x + 588)/(y+(2.49/(1+z))

Condensing:

(0.75426605375x + 1561.263)/(y+(1.5/(1+z))) = (1.547824905x + 1026.4716)/(y+(2.49/(1+z))
to
(0.75426605375x + 1561.263)*(y+(2.49/(1+z)) = (1.547824905x + 1026.4716)*(y+(1.5/(1+z)))
to
(0.75426605375x + 1561.263)*MFcastD = (1.547824905x + 1026.4716)*MBCastD
to
spell power needed =
((1026.4716*MBCastD) - (1561.263*MFCastD)) / ((0.754266*MFCastD) - (1.547825*MBCastD))

A new formula!!! But is it really different?

So let's put 0.17 delay to three different equations and see if they differ.

The elder formula: ((1020*(MFcast+delay))-(679.14*(MBcast+delay)))/((1.0240807*(MBcast+delay))-(0.492775*(MFcast+delay)))
assumes that the Glyph of Mind Flay is multiplicitave, not additive. If it is additive, we need to break down the like coeffecients differently.

DMF = (1.15)(1.15)(1.10)(1.20)(1.15*0.7710*X+533)
DMB = (1.15)(1.10)(1.10)(1.10)(1.15*0.4285*X+1025)
becomes
DMF = (1.15)(1.15)(1.10)(1.20)*y
DMB = (1.15)(1.10)(1.10)(1.10)*z

DMF ?=? DMB

(1.15)(1.15)(1.10)(1.20)y=(1.15)(1.10)(1.10)(1.10)z
(1.15)(1.15)(1.10)(1.20)y/(1.15)(1.10)(1.10)(1.10) = z
(1.140496)y=z

Which gives us a "additive changed old formula" of:

MF: 1.140496(588 + 0.88665x) which is (670.611648 + 1.0112207784x)
MB: 1020 + 0. 492775x

Additive old: ((1020*MFCastD)-(670.611648*MBCastD))/((1.0112207784*MBCastD)-(0.492775*MFCastD))

We wind up with an exact match (table below) between changing the old formula to having Glyph of MF being additive to the new formula posted above, which both differ from the old formula that used the Glyph of MF as being multiplicative. What the question now, is, not if algebra is suddenly not working with numbers in World of Warcraft, but rather:

Does the Glyph of Mind Flay stack multiplicatively or additively with other damage modifers of Mind Flay???

Haste - MFCastD - MBCastD - Old EQ - New EQ - Old w/ Glyph Change
1200 - 1.86 - 1.19 - 3605 - 3833 - 3833
1190 - 1.86 - 1.19 - 3605 - 3833 - 3833
1180 - 1.86 - 1.19 - 3605 - 3833 - 3833
1170 - 1.87 - 1.19 - 3700 - 3936 - 3936
1160 - 1.87 - 1.19 - 3700 - 3936 - 3936
1150 - 1.87 - 1.2 - 3554 - 3777 - 3777
1140 - 1.88 - 1.2 - 3646 - 3877 - 3877
1130 - 1.88 - 1.2 - 3646 - 3877 - 3877
1120 - 1.89 - 1.2 - 3740 - 3981 - 3981
1110 - 1.89 - 1.21 - 3594 - 3821 - 3821
1100 - 1.89 - 1.21 - 3594 - 3821 - 3821
1090 - 1.9 - 1.21 - 3686 - 3922 - 3922
1080 - 1.9 - 1.21 - 3686 - 3922 - 3922
1070 - 1.91 - 1.22 - 3634 - 3864 - 3864
1060 - 1.91 - 1.22 - 3634 - 3864 - 3864
1050 - 1.91 - 1.22 - 3634 - 3864 - 3864
1040 - 1.92 - 1.22 - 3726 - 3966 - 3966
1030 - 1.92 - 1.23 - 3583 - 3809 - 3809
1020 - 1.93 - 1.23 - 3673 - 3907 - 3907
1010 - 1.93 - 1.23 - 3673 - 3907 - 3907
1000 - 1.93 - 1.23 - 3673 - 3907 - 3907
990 - 1.94 - 1.24 - 3622 - 3851 - 3851
980 - 1.94 - 1.24 - 3622 - 3851 - 3851
970 - 1.95 - 1.24 - 3713 - 3951 - 3951
960 - 1.95 - 1.24 - 3713 - 3951 - 3951
950 - 1.96 - 1.25 - 3661 - 3894 - 3894
940 - 1.96 - 1.25 - 3661 - 3894 - 3894
930 - 1.96 - 1.25 - 3661 - 3894 - 3894
920 - 1.97 - 1.25 - 3752 - 3994 - 3994
910 - 1.97 - 1.26 - 3611 - 3839 - 3839
900 - 1.98 - 1.26 - 3700 - 3936 - 3936
890 - 1.98 - 1.26 - 3700 - 3936 - 3936
880 - 1.99 - 1.26 - 3791 - 4037 - 4037
870 - 1.99 - 1.27 - 3649 - 3881 - 3881
860 - 1.99 - 1.27 - 3649 - 3881 - 3881

jdgaynor · 02/13/10, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by Griemak

There are errors in both your formula and spreadsheet. The real question that should be asked now is the behaviour of the Glyph of Mind Flay. The ONLY difference between the old equation and the one you propose is if the 10% damage from the glyph of MF is additive to TF or multiplicative to ALL MF damage modifiers. Below is boring work

I fixed the post above to reflect the correct starting values for Mind Flay. Thanks! Althor on shadowpriest.com correctly points out that at level 80, the base number on Mind Blast is higher.

There is currently a tooltip error with mind flay where if you put on your 4T10, it'll change the base damage of the spell on the tooltip, and somewhere in there it confused me when I was double checking things before I posted. That's what I get for doing QA when I should be asleep.

I tested the Glyph of Mind Flay yesterday on servers, and found it to be additive with Twisted Faith, and not multiplicative. Other people confirming this would help a lot. Althor on shadowpriest.com also says it is additive.

It makes sense that if you change the old formula to reflect that the glyph is additive that they would come up with the same result. My point about Algebra was perhaps overstated; still, going through and testing all of this was somewhat rewarding. It is a positive contribution to the discussion to correct that error in the previous formula.

If nothing else, now there's a new spreadsheet to direct people toward when they ask if they want to drop Mind Blast.

Griemak · 02/14/10, 3:20 PM

Indeed, the more players scrutinizing everything done the better we will all be, thank you for testing all of it.

Edit: removed, excuse my ignorance for not including the trinket's spell power into the "raid buffed" amount to use in the calculation.

If you do not mind, I would like to add to your spreadsheet how much "gain" dropping MB would be as well. I think we can get very close to SC's results and would be a good approx.

Edit2:
If you add a new column, "Approx. DPS Gain" to H1, this could be the formula for cell H2

=IF(F2>E2,(F2-E2)/(D8/D5),"N/A")

What it does:

Takes the MB base DPET - the MF base DPET to find the difference per execution only using the differences between MB and MF which would basically be equal to the gain in a raid setting as it accounts only the differences between the abilities.
It divides the MF cast + delay by the MB cast + delay to figure out how many MB cast are lost per MF casts gained by dropping MB.
It then divides the DPET difference by the gain/loss coeffecient to approximate the DPS gain.

I ran 4 test cases through SC to confirm (total 8 runs, 4 with MB, 4 without) and this approximation has an error of +/- 1.5 dps out of those tests... it's close.

Would you approve adding that or a variant you deem appropriate? I believe seeing how much is lost/gain will open a few eyes as to the real benefit and perhaps quelch the "what about replenishment" argument.

jdgaynor · 02/14/10, 9:14 PM

Updated the spreadsheet with the formula you requested. I'm raiding right now, but I was planning on doing a more robust version for people later tonight. I'll edit this post once I get that one done.

Griemak · 02/14/10, 10:07 PM

I may have already done alot of the grunt work for you. I had a spreadsheet laying around I was going to share that determined spell power needed by answering a few questions, you lit my want to work on it a bit more (with updated corrections to equations). I PM'd you over on shadowpriest dot com with the link to it. It's yours if you want it.

Edit: that formula for "gain" is bunk, discredited it a few hours ago with 50 simulationcraft runs (25 w/ MB, 25 w/o MB). It was fine for the exact haste and spellpower Trevar has in his BiS profile, but went haywire with other values. Bah, I wanted to level an alt for herb/alch and spent my time on this instead, oh well...

jdgaynor · 02/17/10, 4:04 AM

Griemak did an excellent job of turning my small spreadsheet into a powerful tool. Using this spreadsheet alone SHOULD NOT decide whether or not to keep casting Mind Blast. The intention here is to provide a mathematical model to help you see what is theoretically possible based on your gear, latency, and skill.

As you know, the Shadow Priest priority queue is complicated. You will lose DPS if you neglect any part of it! You will lose a lot of potential DPS if you are bad at Mind Flay, or you let it hurt your DoT uptime.

I quote Griemak's argument from a thread on the WoW Forums to help make perfectly clear what you should think about before you drop Mind Blast:

For the current tier, your choice to drop MB or not is just that: your choice, not a clear cut Min-Max decision. The more precision you exercise in spell casting, the less it will matter if you cast MB or not. The less precision you exercise in spell casting, the more you will have mathematical proof to drop MB but will suffer from that lack of precision possibly lowering overall DPS in doing so. Before dropping MB for good, try increasing your precision on casting and adjust your priority to:

-VT and DP, stop what you are doing to keep these as close to 100% uptime as possible.
-Cast MB only after it's cooldown is expired. Do not wait for this, cast MF if DoTs are not in need of refresh and cast MB after three ticks. Do not interrupt other actions to cast MB, just wait for the other action to finish then cast MB.
-Cast MF to fill every other .0001 seconds of time you are in combat. Only clip Mind Flay after the second tick, only clip to refresh DP and VT.
-Be sure not to refresh VT and DP early. They should have their last tick do damage before the new DoT is applied. Timing your VT cast to accomplish this is one of the best investments into raising DPS we shadow priests can do, the other is learning to channel like a champ.

If you are a Min-Maxer and you want to assure the highest possible DPS, I would
A.) Make sure your DoT Uptime is above 90% on both VT and DP. If it is not, you should probably work on that before you start trying to eek out extra damage on Mind Flay.

B.) Make sure you do not overclip your ticks at all. By that I mean, trying to 2clip Mind Flay, but doing it after the halfway mark to the third tick. If you overclip more than 5% of your Mind Flay ticks, you should not drop Mind Blast. There are addons like MFClip which can call you out on this kind of behavior.

C.) Make sure you do not accidentally rechannel Mind Flay too soon, ever. If you need to use a [nochanneling] macro to do this, then you should look carefully at the spreadsheet to see if that changes your theoretical values. Spending almost the whole Mind Flay cast to do 2/3 the damage of a complete Mind Flay will negate any extra damage you would have earned from dropping Mind Blast at this gear level.

***Edited Spreadsheet: 1.) We're uncertain about the conventional wisdom that [nochanneling] macros add double your latency to Mind Flay. The spreadsheet has been updated with a reduced penalty to Mind Flay's DPET if you are using a [nochanneling] macro.
2.) Updated stats on Phylactery***

archangeltec · 02/23/10, 6:23 AM

I know I have heard issues with SW:P and reapplyin when new debuffs are applied to boss (i.e. imp SB, trinkets or other procs). Has this bug been fixed? Because of this issue i have used an addon called ShadowGreenLight from curse.com to let me know when to reapply SW:P.

Frmercury · 02/23/10, 7:55 AM

No, it hasn't afaik.

In all likelihood by fixing it they would nerf it in some way. That's speculation of course, but knowing Blizzard it would be the likely outcome.

If you don't want to use the addon, just become well versed in the mechanics and set up a special buff and debuff frame with your buff mod of choice.

Alsn · 03/02/10, 7:24 PM

Made a pretty comprehensive list of tricks for all the normal mode bosses in ICC and posted it over at shadowpriest.com. Some of the information is from this very thread and seeing as I will likely update that thread over time, it seemed awkward to have to update two separate threads. Meaning I will link the thread rather than quote it.

Clickety-click.

• Snowy · 03/02/10, 9:03 PM

Using Dispersion while you have Unchained Magic will NOT stack Instability again. So yeah, when you get UM you just keep casting as normal, and then when UM wears off, Dispersion then as your Instability will be ticking down from 4 seconds. The other note is that when she pulls you in, you can either DP/SWD to force your stack to keep refreshing, or simply use Dispersion then if there's not much time left on your debuff.

Depending on your positioning, this isn't an option for hard mode since your explosion hits everyone else within 20 yards.

jdgaynor · 03/03/10, 7:11 PM

I usually wait until the last second to disperse, about one second before the Instability buff expires. I find getting a new unchained magic applied after I have dispersed off an old stack to be incredibly annoying.

Eating a 49 stack of unchained magic is the lulz (would have been 50, but I started getting unreasonably anxious).

Sinusoid · 03/04/10, 7:48 AM

Is this still possible? With the longer duration of Instability I know it was, but I'm wondering with the shorter duration if it will expire before the next application of Unchained Magic.

Mokhtar · 03/04/10, 8:27 AM

Originally Posted by Sinusoid

Is this still possible? With the longer duration of Instability I know it was, but I'm wondering with the shorter duration if it will expire before the next application of Unchained Magic.

Still possible if I remember right.