Cataclysm Mechanics Testing - Page 11

Vaelaris · 12/11/10, 8:17 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

[*]For any proc above that procs only off one hand, does it use the base 15% proc rate for spells, or the PPM rate for the weapon in question?[*]For any proc above that procs off both hands, do the proc rates add or overlap? That is, if a given attack can proc off either hand, does it check separately for each weapon (yielding an effective 30% proc rate) or does it simply check whether at least one Avalanche enchant is present, resulting in a 15% proc rate?[/list]

Combat log for ~2,000 autoattacks on level 85 dummy. I can provide the full combat log if someone would like as I'm not as good at going over it as others. There are also some proc rates for Shnottzz's Medallion of Command. There seems to be a 100sec ICD and ~20% uptime, which I've seen between .5 and 1ppm.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

sp00n · 12/13/10, 7:00 AM

A short test of [Left Eye of Rajh] (normal version!) shows an ICD of 50 seconds. Cannot rule out 45s though and cannot comment on the heroic version, but one could assume it has the same ICD.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Also, [Grace of the Herald] (heroic this time) seems to have an ICD of 100s. Guild buddy of mine wanted to post his combat logs here, but if it's sufficient, our raid yesterday also showed a minimum of 100 seconds between procs.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (Leodane)
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (Surprise)

That's of course not an uninterrupted single fight but many single encounters.

Palanuial · 12/13/10, 1:42 PM

Hurricane: It procs off rupture both when the enchant was only on the MH, and when it was only on the OH. In addition, when I had two Hurricane procs from both hands, I applied a rupture and stopped attacking in order to see if it would proc another instance, or if it would refresh one of the two currently active buffs. It turned out to be the latter.

Edit: I was also able to reproduce the behaviour described in Rallik's post where, if a bleed (rupture, in my case) procced an instance of hurricane, the procs from my main or off-hand attacks would not refresh it, but procc a new instance of the effect.

AzGuL^ · 12/13/10, 1:51 PM

What is the proc behavior of Unheeded Warning?

I can assist with this one - just need to know what to do.

• Aldriana · 12/13/10, 1:54 PM

ICD, mostly. Though I know someone is working on a log for it as we speak, so we should know the answer in a few hours either way.

Crevan · 12/13/10, 2:05 PM

I had an off-hand Hurricane proc from using a bandage. I guess it's bugged now, I doubt it should proc from non-damaging actions.

Palanuial · 12/13/10, 2:26 PM

It proccs off spells. It will, for instance, procc off recuperate.

• Aldriana · 12/13/10, 5:47 PM

Based on sp00n's findings above, plus logs sent to me via email by Zeyue, I'm comfortable with saying that Grace is a 100 sec ICD and Left Eye is 50 seconds. Additionally, nelalas sent me some logs for Unheeded Warning and Essence of the Cyclone, and from them I feel confident in saying that both are 50 sec ICD as well. This, coupled with earlier testing on Key and Prestor's makes it pretty clear that the "usual" proc behavior for trinkets is to have an ICD of 5 times the buff duration. We should probably verify this for each new proc that comes along, but as a means of putting together quick approximations for the quality of gear, its a good rule of thumb.

As a note, I've also added a new question about the interaction of Bandit's Guile and damage procs.

Vaelaris · 12/13/10, 6:45 PM

Is there any reason to believe that trinkets of differing quality have different ICDs? For instance, Left Eye has a 10 second duration with a 50 second ICD, but is it possible that part of the increased itemization for Epic items is a reduced ICD? Could that explain why we had 10-15 second procs with 45 second ICDs on Epics in Wrath? Or, should we assume that Blizzard has changed the ICD on all proc-based items to correspond with the 5x proc time?

• Aldriana · 12/13/10, 6:57 PM

So far both epic trinkets we've tested (Prestor's and EotC) obey the 5x rule. They have more base stats and a *larger* proc - hence the epicness - but the same uptime as their blue kin. In terms of the logic behind this: previously trinket ICDs/Durations were all over the map - DMC/Verdict/WFS were 3x, DBW was 3.5x, and a number of others (Dark Matter, Mjolnir, Grim Toll, Comet's Trail, etc.) were 4.5x. Note also that in Wrath, trinket qualities were highly variable as well - a BoE trinket that anyone could get was BIS until midway through the second tier of raiding and had no major upgrades until an even more overpowered version was added in ToC, and so on. Hence, my suspicion is that they intentionally reworked the way they design and balance trinkets to make their benefits more consistent, to make it easier to balance them against each other and create a natural progression of quality.

Brotherbear · 12/13/10, 9:28 PM

So it's not on the initial list, but do we care about the proc behaviour on Meteor Shard out of SFK?

I picked one up yesterday and would love to be able to contribute to the theorycrafting, but I can easily see how we're not overwhelmingly concerned by an easily farmed blue dagger.

• Aldriana · 12/13/10, 9:49 PM

I'm not horribly concerned about it, no. But as a brief commentary on it, based on a conversation I had with Latito the other day: the proc really kinda sucks. In practice, the dagger is still better than all 333 MHs, but its significantly weaker than all conventional (stated) 346 daggers.

sp00n · 12/14/10, 1:47 AM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

I'm not horribly concerned about it, no. But as a brief commentary on it, based on a conversation I had with Latito the other day: the proc really kinda sucks. In practice, the dagger is still better than all 333 MHs, but its significantly weaker than all conventional (stated) 346 daggers.

I had it for a while, and generelly it accounted for about 0.2% of my overall damage while farming heroics. Not really overwhelming. Damage per proc is around 350 (multiplied by targets in range), not sure if it can crit. It also breaks CC.

• Aldriana · 12/14/10, 5:06 AM

So, I ran a test this evening, and the inescapable conclusion is that Avalanche doesn't proc off Instant Poison.

The test consisted of autoattacking with a single (1.8) dagger enchanted with Avalanche, and Instant Poison on it. In 2100 autoattacks, I had 791 Instant Poison procs and 321 Avalanche procs. Assuming the established proc rates of 5 PPM (=15%) for weapon attacks and 10% for spells:

Case 1: Avalanche only procs off autoattacks. We expect 2100 * .15 = 315 procs, with a standard deviation of sqrt(2100 * .15 * .85) = 16.36; we are thus .37 standard deviations from the mean.

Case 2: Avalanche procs off both autoattacks and instant poison. We expect 2100 * .15 + 791 * .1 = 394.1 procs, with a standard deviation of sqrt(2100 * .85 * .15 + 791 * .1 * .9) = 18.41; in this case we'd thus be 3.97 standard deviations from the mean.

.37 is a much happier number of standard deviations to be off than 3.97; hence, we can only conclude that Avalanche doesn't proc off Instant Poison. Which has, as you might expect, significant adverse effects on the quality of the enchant. And before you ask: no, I haven't worked out whether it's still better than Hurricane or not.

Secondly, another log sent to me by Nelalas demonstrates that Avalanche procs do not benefit from Bandit's Guile. Presumably the same holds true for DMC:Hurricane as well.

Naganuina · 12/15/10, 12:19 AM

I have gotten up to 500 tailoring an started using swordguard embroidery. Just looking at the buffs gained on WoL it looks like 25-28% uptime. Would anybody be interested in some more robust testing?