It appears that the goblin racial Time is Money stacks multiplicatively with haste on gear:

With all gear equipped:
Haste value in character sheet = 8.68% (Total Haste)
Haste value in tooltip = 7.61% (Gear)
8.68% - 7.61% = 1.07% (Racial)

With half gear equipped:
Haste value in character sheet = 5.36% (Total Haste)
Haste value in tooltip = 4.32% (Gear)
5.36% - 4.32% = 1.04% (Racial

Naked:
Haste value in character sheet = 1.00% (Total Haste)
Haste value in tooltip = 0.00% (Gear)
1.00% - 0.00% = 1.00% (Racial)

Therefore:
Racial = 1 + (Gear / 100)
Total Haste = Gear + Racial

The result is rounded down to arrive at what is displayed on the character sheet. This would suggest that the goblin racial is slightly more beneficial than would be expected and will also increase in value throughout higher tiers of gear. Of course, the racial haste bonus does not affect energy regeneration, so the value of the extra haste is presumably also influenced by this fact. I preformed a search and didn't see any relevant results, so my apologies if this has been said before.

EDIT: I don't have a worgen character to test it with, but it is possible that the worgen racial Viciousness may behave in the same way.

So, perhaps this is just me being slow and everyone's known this for a while, but: it appears that Heroism (and, presumably, Bloodlust and Time Warp as well) now boosts energy regen as well as attack speed. I had the perception that my energy regen was much higher than usual on some recent hard modes where we Heroism the pull; and observing the character sheet reported regen appeared to confirm this, though its a little hard to be sure with all the haste procs and Overkill and whatever going off. So, after raid, I grabbed a guild shaman and stripped off all haste gear and tested on a dummy; when Hero went off, my character sheet regen indeed went from 10 to 13, so the character sheet thinks it does; and I spammed Mutilates both before and during the buff to get an estimate of energy expenditure. I cast 10 Mutilates entirely within the Heroism buff, and the spacings between them were 3.744, 4.136, 4.364, 3.963, 4.323, 4.615, 4.115, 4.071, and 4.400, for an average spacing of 4.193 seconds; this works out to regen of 55/4.193 = 13.12 energy regen per second, so it was definitely increasing my regen by the 30% claimed.

According to the character sheet (which, based on the above, I have little reason to doubt) it stacks multiplicatively with Overkill (i.e., with zero haste gear your regen with both up would be 16.9 per second), which means that with haste gear and haste procs, your regen can easily pass 20 per second (I was seeing 22.70 per second with both haste trinkets procced). This is pretty manageable as Mutilate; however, the Combat rogue in my guild was reporting his regen passing 40 per second with Heroism + Adrenaline Rush + double trinket procs, which is well past the point where you can no longer spend it as fast as you're gaining it. Thus, it probably makes sense to not overlap AR with Hero, as you lose much of the benefit from capping by doing so.

Just tested troll racial, it also appears to be increasing energy regen by 20% as well.

I assume that is only as long as you don't lose a 'use' of AR by postponing it? Also, wouldn't the fact that you will be lining up trinkets/Agi pot with Bloodlust increase the value of the attack speed (and the GCD capped play) that AR gives you, which would go some way in negating the loss of effectiveness of the energy regen component. I guess it mainly depends on whether or not you lose a 'use' of AR by not using it during BL, though.

I would assume the excessive energy capping would outweigh the extra attack speed by far. Even with just hero up, I'm veryvery close to being GCD capped as Combat. I'd say to line up AR with a 2nd pot after hero is down.

I haven't run detailed numbers, so take this with a grain of salt, but here's my best guess: an AR during Heroism is better than no AR at all, so if you're sure you're going to lose an AR application over the course of the fight by delaying, then go ahead and overlap them. However, I wouldn't worry about the attack speed piece; the gains of overlapping the two attack speed buffs is miniscule in comparison to the damage lost by wasting the majority of the energy regen it provides.

Why would you do that? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to use the 2nd pot with heroism (maybe waiting for deep insight) because of the 30% buff compared to the 20% buff of AR?
Or am I missing something?

I think the double energy regen of AR easily makes up for the loss of 10% attack speed.
But the duration of AR is much shorter than the tol'vir pot duration. So if you pot right at the end of BL/heroisme when you cast AR, 10 sec of tol'vir agility will be "wasted".

In the scenario Aldriana was discussing regarding a bloodlust off the bat you would still be under the effects of your pre-pot and your next pot wouldn't be off cooldown yet, but it makes basic sense that in a fight where the bloodlust isn't immediate to use your second pot when you have AR up (preferably so that AR expires right as lust starts and you retain a few seconds of the pot into the lust).

So, I figure its about time to dust off this thread and figure out the mechanics of the new 4.3 procs - led by the legendary, but some verification of the various trinkets and other procs might also make sense.

I did two tests last night of the stage 1 dagger proc rate for Assassination.

With regular autoattack, I got 3236 procs in 13760 attacks before the daggers broke, which implies a proc rate between 22.8% and 24.2%. However, this could reflect either a fixed % proc rate, or a PPM proc rate.

To find out which, I turned sideways and spammed Shiv, such that I was only attacking with the OH weapon; this resulted in 443 procs in 1746 attacks, which implies a proc rate between 23.3% and 27.4% with 95% confidence; if it were PPM, this would equate to a PPM between 10.00 and 11.75, which would result in an expected proc rate for autoattack between 26.2% and 30.8%. Given that the autoattack range is clearly distinct from this range, it appears unlikely that it is a PPM attack.

Hence, we can combine the attack counts from the two tests, to obtain a total of 3679 procs in 15506 attacks, for a 95% confidence interval of 23.06% to 24.40%. If I had to guess I'd say the proc rate was most likely 24% based on this data, but we should perform further testing to narrow the range further. We will also, of course, need to test with the other specs as well.

Please note that when you're doing this sort of testing you'll need to have a cancelaura macro to remove your buff stack periodically, as Suffering refreshes don't show up in the log once you hit 50 stacks. It is thus crucially important that you not reach 50 stacks of buff when performing this sort of testing.

I am combat/sub right now and can do testing for this, but was wanting to make sure there wasn't anything special that I needed to do. I just auto attack with combat log being logged (for wmo) and clear the stacking buff regularly? Do I need to do anything other than that?

I'm currently doing the testing for combat. I have no gear on except dagger (with landslide on both) and the standard combat spec. I'll do sub after I get done with this unless someone else wants to do it. I was wondering if we needed an unspecced test also?

Shouldn't matter - no one is going to be running unspecced anyway (unless they *really* screwed up the balance, I suppose...). But preliminary testing showed that the proc rate was different by spec, so its makes sense to test separately for each spec.

Also note that it doesn't hurt anything to have multiple people testing - the more data we can accumulate, the better our estimates of the proc rate will be, and thus the better our modeling will be.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Combat spec, naked except the daggers. Target was a level 60 dummy.

17382 hits, 1425 Main Gauche procs (and 820 misses)
1797 Suffering procs

1797/18783= 9.567%


Does WoL's "Buff Gained" resp. "Buff Cast" correspond even if a dose if refreshed? My maximum stacks shouldn't have exceeded 10, but under 10% chance to proc seems quite a huge difference to Assassination spec.


Note that my OH dagger did break in the end, so I simply removed any line from the combat log after the last occurrence of the Suffering proc gain. I noticed about 14 minutes without a proc in the end, so I assume it cannot proc once a dagger is broken, and thus the log should be fine.

95% confidence interval for sp00n's test: 9.15% to 9.99%.

Second set of test, this time as Assassination. Again naked, again vs. level 60 dummy.

13825 Hits
3157 Procs

Proc chance of 22.84%, 95% confidence interval between 22.14% and 23.54%.



Data combined from both Aldriana's and my Assassination tests:
29331 Hits
6836 Procs

23.31% Observed proc chance
22.82% Lower proc chance
23.79% Upper proc chance

Using the stage 1 daggers (fear/vengeance) i've noticed that my landslide procs dropped to about 50% of what they are without daggers as combat.

I've compared it to another rogue in our guild on several fights. We have nearly the same gear, nearly the same hit aswell 14.4% for him and 14.7% for me. I used the daggers he used firelands weapons 2.6/1.4

Attack wise

His white attacks:
208 hit 214 crit
Mine:
253 hit 252 crit

His SS:
95 hit 44 crit
Mine:
95 hit 49 crit

He had 47 landslide procs vs my 24.

Uptime:
Him
Landslide 47 69.9 %
Me:
Landslide 24 46.2 %

Im unsure how to test it properly. Has anyone else experienced weird behaviour with landslide and using the daggers as combat? This is nearly the same for all bosses.


-----Edit-----

Disregard above

Seems i was basing this on incorrect logs. Examined them closer and found 1 second landslides so i think it was just not counting them correctly at first. I uploaded logs of 4 new raids today and it was fine.

I've also tested Shiv in Combat spec to see if the proc chance is similar for special attacks, and yes it is (5088 Shiv, 497 procs, 9.77%).
Combined proc chance with 95% confidence for Combat is now between 9.28% and 10.03%.


Fun fact: you don't lose durability while using only Shiv.

Noxe sent me a log for Nokaled <link>. Proc rate is consistent with the estimated 6.5%: 68 procs in 1010 attacks for a proc rate of 5.34 to 8.46. Current model, however, asumes a 2'' ICD but this log shows two consecutive procs spaced ~1.2''; If I were to guess I'd say it has no icd whatsoever. That said, updating it to 0'' icd won't change the result significantly since even the lfr version is ahead of every other weapon as of the latest model.

Edit: I need to check it, but I think the proc model asumes every strike can proc damage procs like this one; Nokaled, however, doesn't proc from Main Gauche which could pad it down a notch.

Game files tell us that the proc chance is 7%, which is backed up by testing. Testing from the Enhancement Shaman thread confirms there is no ICD and that only attacks from the hand with the weapon can trigger it.

Another thing we should work on testing is the exact mechanics of the 2pc set bonus. I have heard reports that it operates off the base cost of the move (so, for Sub, rather than reducing the cost of Backstab to (60-20) * .8 = 32, it would drop it all the way to 60 * .8 - 20 = 28), but I don't have any good way to test or verify that. If you know of any good ways to precisely measure the exact energy costs during the T13 2pc buff, please let me know and/or provide testing to confirm the behavior.

Forgive me if this sounds overly simple, so simple I fear I’ve gotten what you meant totally wrong heh (In my defence it has been a long day of heroic progress).

But, I simply checked the energy cost of the tooltip it’s a base cost of 60, which goes down to 42 with 2set tricks.
When Sub it’s an initial cost of 40, which goes down to 28 during tricks (which means your right).

I also took off all my gear, aside from 2 tier pieces and a white dagger, a backstab takes my energy down to 60 (can see it slowly fill) with tricks up, it does only fall down to 72.

I'll try and get some images of this tomorrow.