The 4.0.1 Rogue FAQ

• Aldriana · 10/06/10, 1:46 PM

Note: This is a 4.0.1 FAQ. It is not updated for 4.0.3. Nor will it be, since I don't find it worth my time to reoptimize for 2 weeks of non-progression raiding. In fact, I think I'll lock this thread as its not really very useful anymore.

Note: We don't care about your anecdotes based on 5 minutes with a training dummy. They're completely meaningless. Stop posting them.

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Since many of you seem to be looking for gear/spec/etc. information about 4.0.1 (i.e., the period where we have the new talent trees and mechanics but are still raiding level 80 content), I figured I'd try to compile answers to the commonly asked questions.

Note: No one has done truly detailed theorycraft on any of this. In some cases its little more than educated guesswork. The information should thus be considered as somewhat less reliable than what you might normally expect on these forums, but I figure in this case even educated guesswork is better than nothing.

What's the recommended Assassination spec?
Probably this, or perhaps the same thing with 2/3 RS and 3/3 Precision. The point in Deadly Brew can also be moved if you happen to like some other filler point better. Cycle is 4+ finishers, keep Rupture up, otherwise Envenom. Prime Glyphs are sort of anyone's guess, but if it were me I'd try Mut/BS/Rupture.

What's the recommended Combat spec?
Probably this. The points in Imp Sprint and Blade Twisting can be moved to your favorite filler points. Cycle is keep SnD up, Rupture if its down, Evis otherwise. Prime glyphs are probably SS/AR/Rupture.

What's the recommended Sub spec?
Probably this. The point in Enveloping Shadows is filler and can be moved to suit your fancy. And I'm sort of guessing on the merits of Lethality and Precision relative to CdG. Cycle is keep Hemo up, otherwise Backstab, keep SnD + Recuperate up and spam Eviscerates to roll Rupture. Prime Glyphs... Backstab for sure, and after that your guess is as good as mine.

Okay, which of those is best?
Good question. We don't know.

But...
We don't know. Stop asking.

What stats are good?
Agi is probably your best stat. Haste is probably pretty good as well. You will likely be short on hit. Current theory is that you want to get all socket bonuses, socketing agi, agi/haste, and agi/hit to match the socket bonuses. Crit is probably weak-ish for all specs right now, particularly for Assassination.

In terms of an incredibly crude estimate of the relative value of stats (and no, I don't have numbers for Sub, so don't ask):

Stat	Assass.	Combat
Agi	2.8	2.88
Crit	1.55	1.62
Spell Hit	3.2	2.38
White Hit	1.8	1.69
Expertise	2.6	2.20
Haste	2.2	2.25
Mastery	1.9	0.60

Lets talk Trinkets.
Incredibly crude estimate (again, no Sub estimate):

Trinket	Assass.	Combat
H:STS	810	830
H:DV	760	780
H:DBW	760	790
STS	720	740
DV	680	690
HWT	680	690
H:WFS	670	690
DBW	670	700
H:Abom	600

Weapon Enchants?
Mongoose.

What are the new hit/expertise caps?
Hit caps:

	Spell	White
3/3 Precision	289	646
2/3 Precision	342	707
1/3 Precision	394	769
0/3 Precision	446	830

Expertise is acting strangely - the boss dodge rate seems to have been reduced to "about" 5.6% - but that value isn't exact. 172 expertise seems to be enough to cap right now, or 149 for gnomes, but those values may be off by a point or two.

Exisled · 10/06/10, 2:26 PM

As far as I know, the gem colours are also changing in 4.0.1. As this will change the colour of Agi+Hit gems to Purple, does this have any effect on the theory of matching gem sockets? I mean, we can't match Yellow sockets with purple gems.

• Aldriana · 10/06/10, 2:27 PM

That's why you put the agi/haste gems in the yellow sockets and the agi/hit ones in the blue sockets. Thus matching all socket bonuses. Just like I said.

korner · 10/06/10, 2:37 PM

Maybe, this is worth adding to the first post:

Due to the changed combat ratings, the caps are different in 4.0.1:
White hit cap: 579
Spell hit cap: 289
Expertise cap: 200

ieatpaperbag · 10/06/10, 3:43 PM

Probably worth noting the spell hit cap for various points in precision since you won’t necessarily have 3/3.

3/3: 289
2/3: 342
1/3: 394
0/3: 446

Eilsel · 10/06/10, 4:20 PM

Since Agility seems to be the best stat - is it correct for me to assume Blacken Dragonfin is the best food for raids?

Josidiah · 10/06/10, 4:47 PM

How about glyphs, I dont know which ones will be available before cataclysm but there are some viable choices for combat, reavealing strike, adrenaline rush eviscerate etc

Brotherbear · 10/06/10, 4:49 PM

Does the Nightmare Tear have any value now? I'm assuming not, since 10hit > 10 str/stam.

Secondly, I'm assuming I missed something about crit rating conversion in 4.01? Because I'm right up against the crit cap as it is now, let alone gemming for agility.

Thanks!

Slayer101 · 10/06/10, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

Lets talk Trinkets.
Best guess: Heroic Scale > HWT > Heroic Verdict > Scale > H

BW > H:Abom > Verdict > H:WFS. Emphasis on the word "guess". Note also that you might need to use Abom for hit.

I'm a bit surprised that Scale is above even normal Abom in the list above with Crit being such a weak stat vs. hit. I understand it is just a guess atm.

Any comment on Glyphs? My understanding on Prime (for Combat) is SS, Rupture, Adren Rush. Anyone have any thoughts on Major?

Do we know if there is a Haste cap?

Best OH seems to be Lungbreaker for the 1.4 speed?

Best MH still Bloodvenom blade (other than Havoc's Call)?

• Aldriana · 10/06/10, 5:24 PM

1) I've heard rumors that STS is actually haste and not crit on PTR. I don't have one so I've been unable to confirm.
3) There is no known haste cap.
4) Lungbreaker is clearly best for Assassination and Subtlety. For combat it's less clear-cut because Main Gauche is normalized.

Slayer101 · 10/06/10, 5:25 PM

Originally Posted by Brotherbear

Does the Nightmare Tear have any value now? I'm assuming not, since 10hit > 10 str/stam.

Secondly, I'm assuming I missed something about crit rating conversion in 4.01? Because I'm right up against the crit cap as it is now, let alone gemming for agility.

Thanks!

I don't think this will be an issue as you will be gemming agil/haste/hit and reforgeing crit to haste or hit (maybe mastery if we figure out it's worth)

Slayer101 · 10/06/10, 5:26 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

1) I've heard rumors that STS is actually haste and not crit on PTR. I don't have one so I've been unable to confirm.
3) There is no known haste cap.
4) Lungbreaker is clearly best for Assassination and Subtlety. For combat it's less clear-cut because Main Gauche is normalized.

STS is currently Crit on both PTR and Beta (checked today).

Bloedhoertje · 10/06/10, 5:52 PM

With Assassination spec. I would rather take Deadened Nerves for better survivability instead of
the point for crippling poison(Deadly Brew). Most rogues use a weapon-swap macro for the crippling poison occasions.

• Aldriana · 10/06/10, 6:02 PM

You're welcome to do as you wish, of course; but I'm of the opinion that having an automatic snare that doesn't cost you insane amounts of DPS (as a weapon swap macro does) is useful for, for instance, LK. And as that's a fight that some people might be interested in optimizing for at this point...

Lightshadow · 10/06/10, 6:07 PM

On the choice of offhand for combat: KS is also normalized and with reasonably high end gear should be on a little less than a 1 minute cooldown. That said, it seems like it's still moderately worthwhile to swap to the dagger as long as you're not carrying very much mastery.