Can´t find a recommended rotation. Is it like this?

SS to 5cp > SnD, SS to 4cp then RS to 5 cp > Rupture, ss to 4 cp then RS to 5 cp > Eviscerate?

Or what is the way to go?

Mongoose procs are separate, so the only way it could have refreshed itself is if there was no ICD. Are you sure the addon isn't just bugging out?

Edit: Or if the ICD was 14 seconds or shorter.

Correct, except (as always) you always need to prioritize SnD. Dont use RvS if you get procced to 5 cps by SS glyph.

The mongoose proc from one weapon, will not refresh the lightning speed buff from another. It will proc its own.

Oh that's weird you're right it is buging out and saying it has cooldown

Browsing our log from last night (I was using Mongoose just in my offhand):
Should disprove the suggested 45s ICD. I did not, however, observe any refreshes. Other than that, the uptime seemed rather appropriate for an offhand enchant (though even a rather subtle change of 10% or so in the proc-rate could tilt the scales to favor Berserking). To be noted that there were a couple of heavy outliers: fights against Saurfang and Blood Queen showed just one Mongoose proc each for me.

I'm in the same bucket as you, 1050ish haste. It seems near to impossible to not energy cap during AR unless you spam FoK. You can use abilities while doing killing spree now, so thats not a real problem.

Assassination spam concern

An observation I made during last nights raid was that Blizzard has decided to implement a feature where an ability, if pushed about 0.5 sec. before it comes off of WCD, will now queue itself, and automatically fire as soon as it can.

This interfered heavily with my rotation below 35%, due to the massive amount of Backstab spam you have to pull off to make sure you don't cap on energy.

A common situation last night was that I'd spam away on Backstab and often I'd accidentally queue another Backstab just as you were about to hit Envenom or Rupture.

I know much of this comes down to having spent 5+ years playing one way and then suddenly having to play in another way, but to me it just felt weird and uncontrollable most of the time. The fact that you're feeling like having to really stress just to spend your energy, somehow seems wrong to me and it wasn't enjoyable to play.

A solution could be reducing the energy returned on Backstab and make it hit appropriately harder. Putting more emphasis on control and timing and less on spam and burning energy.

This will be solved come Cataclysm as they are implementing a slider to adjust the sensitivity of the ability queue system.

Re: New ability queue system needs work - World of Raids

I haven't had the opportunity to raid on my rogue since 4.0.1 hit, but I regemmed my gear in accordance to the EP values listed on the first post of this thread, and then proceeded to reforge all my crit->haste or hit. I'm ending up with 1065 haste and 620 hit, with 3/3 precision.

Would it be better to reforge crit/haste gear into mastery instead at that kind of hit level; or to put more points into Relentless Strikes? I also assume that it's obvious that hc:Heartpierce falls behind hc:Rib Spreader this near hit cap and with so much haste?

Is there some reason why you wouldn't use RvS around 2-3 CP instead of waiting for 4? The 15 second debuff is easily long enough even for a combo with no SS glyph procs, and almost an entire second combo if you mistimed an SnD refresh. Obviously, if you're going to refresh SnD then it's a waste, but you ought to be able to anticipate when you'll need to refresh SnD based on remaining time.

I open with Garrote, SnD Mut Mut Envenom, Vendetta, Mut mut Rupture

In regards to the combat spec parses that have been posted up thus far, it looks like RvS was only used before Evis, is there a reason that you would not want to use RvS before Rupt as well? Sorry if i'm missing the obvious here, the few bosses i've done since the patch i've added Rupt back into my cycle and was RvS before Rupt and Evis if i wasn't hitting 5cp with SS, though it seems i've taken a small hit to combat dps, but cerintaly not 50%.

For Combat, which is the better rotation when you know you're going to do a damage finisher - open with RvS then SS to 5 or open with SS to 4 then RvS/skip RvS if SS procs to 5? Does anyone know how damage compares between 1 SS, the RvS effect on a 5 pt Rupture, and the RvS effect on a 5 pt evis?

I have been reading through the forums but haven't seen a response to this just yet.

Does heroic Heartpierce outstrip H Ribspreader?

I had a little bit of issue at times tonight if things line up right with vendetta and I run with about 200ms latency. It only became and issue when the boss was sub 35%. I dropped a mutilate in here and there when I thought I was near capping after a string of backstabs.

I was wondering as well if it would be worth weapon swapping at that point since energy is less of a concern with backstab spam.

thanks

I found the energy regen to be a LOT more manageable if I dropped Backstab glyph for Vendetta instead, since the cycle settles down to be a lot more stable. I'm also using H HP, which accelerates the energy regen as well.

I thinkt hat for combat at the moment the damage loss per SS due to the removal of ArP is not on par with the increased cp generation. They managed to balance out the Evis with implementing RvS but our main damage dealer is lacking behind about 30 % as far as I can tell.

After a bit of brief testing, BM is still proccing off of poisons (first OH hit it went off). Has anyone done any testing as of yet to see if MG/BM is going to out do double zerking for Sub?

So I loaded Solver, and I couldn't find a way to do this calculation
I loaded a free trial of Risk Solver Platform and I found a "Knapsack" problem example and I know absolutely that if I was smarter I could set up a very small concise model with appropriate constraints, objectives, variables, and parameters. However, I was unable to make this work either.

So I wanted to pass on the brute force solution I used as well as state that I believe Solver is complex enough that someone demonstrating how to use it wouldn't break the hand holding rule.

But I have 16 variables to work with which is 2^16 => 65,536 combinations. So in Excel I listed numbers 1 to 65,535 in column A and then converted that to binary. But, since Excel only allows you to convert 10 bits, I had to fake it out using
That gives you a 18 digit binary number. Then I just listed out the 16 variables I have to work with and in the column below each number I used
to give me a 0 or a 1 in each cell. (Note, that since there's 18 digits the way I did it, the first number is offset by 3)

Then I just multiplied out the variables times a 1 or 0 for each row and summed those values. So I ended up with a list all 65,535 possible sums. Then it was easy to find that there were actually 5 different combinations that add up to 94 and a whole bunch that added up to 146.


I'm positive Solver would be more elegant, but I just didn't have the time to invest into it and this brute force method worked fairly well. The big limiting factor would be, not sure how to handle more than 16 variables.

(Note, my intention was to attach the spreadsheet for others to be able to use, however it turns out it's 50 megabytes in size. Another pro for using Solver.)

I noticed someone posted something similar to this earlier and I wanted to get some thoughts on this as well.

While tweaking my gear and testing on the dummy I tried using RvS first in my rotation (Not as an opener of course). I noticed that the 15 second debuff was enough time to build to 5 CP's + Finisher. Even faster when SS proced a CP.

Can anyone think of a reason why I should not do this? At least for me, it seemed easier to keep track of RvS/SnD/Rup during the rotation by using this method. I guess you can even argue that you can use RvS anywhere during your CP buildup?

I think the way to do this in solver is to have the values in one column, a binary modifier in a second column and the product of the two in the third, like you did with the brute force. Then you sum them up, and tell solver that the sum has to equal a certain value (e.g. 200) and the constraints are that all the values in column 2 are binary (one of the default constraints in solver). This takes about 10 seconds and is almost instant. You can also code a solver function in VB and add a big button for spreadsheet usage later.

I have attached it here. Highlight C17 and use solver to see the way I did it. In case it doesn't work out, use solver to set cell C17 equal to value of whatever value you need, by changing cells B1:B16 subject to the constraints B1:B16 = binary. To account for not going over, you can also set C17 to MAX subject to the constraint that it is <= whatever value you need.

Another quick observation that may be obvious to some, but you can abuse the energy return mechanism on Venomous wounds by throwing up a rupture on something that is about to die in an add situation, and it will return (assuming no or 1 tick has gone) around 85 energy for me. That fills my energy bar in time to switch to a second add, a much better return on energy than the 3pt envenom I could have done.

is it safe to drop premeditation and preparation for coup de grace in the lvl 80 build? i was pulling 8200 dps on dummy without the help of both of em.

also, i've reached the hit cap without the need of precision, shuld i still go for it and push for white cap? otherwise id just go for max enveloping shadows.