The 4.0.1 Rogue FAQ - Page 16

Eustache · 10/13/10, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Kildrazien

Speaking from a spec-wide point of view, i think that all assassination rogues will find it beneficial to have a macro that would automatically choose which to use, mutilate or backstab, depending on the health of the current target. As i am not macro-savvy and i cant find any information, if any people who understand programming language could help with this problem, most of the rogue community would be grateful. I believe it would go somewhere along the lines of this

If (targetHP < 35%) then Backstab, else
Mutilate

Well, if you really want to have such a function - it could be emulated easily.

For example, I take it you'd be using Bar 1 as your "standard" bar. You can just press "shift + up" or "shift + down"
and set up the bar you just changed to exactly the way you have standard bar 1, only with backstab in place of mutilate and just switch at 35% via the aforementioned "shift + (up or down)".

(Note: I tested this with the bartender4 action bar addon, works fine)

Theone · 10/13/10, 9:25 PM

Originally Posted by Eustache

Well, if you really want to have such a function - it could be emulated easily.

For example, I take it you'd be using Bar 1 as your "standard" bar. You can just press "shift + up" or "shift + down"
and set up the bar you just changed to exactly the way you have standard bar 1, only with backstab in place of mutilate and just switch at 35% via the aforementioned "shift + (up or down)".

(Note: I tested this with the bartender4 action bar addon, works fine)

Wow, Ty for the post. Been searching forever for a addon to add bars but keep Blizz UI. But this works just fine.

Also. Is anyone else seeing Mastery being better for Mutilate then White Hit? Considering how 50% of our dmg is poison?

Nokkad · 10/13/10, 9:34 PM

I know you guys are much smarter and better than I am at this sort of thing so I wanted to ask, for PvE Assassination, why Murderous Intent which is only usable when the mob is >35% and not Improved Expose Armor which makes it free and ups the dmg of the entire raid? It also means you don't have to deviate from a single rotation.

• Aldriana · 10/13/10, 9:35 PM

Originally Posted by Theone

Also. Is anyone else seeing Mastery being better for Mutilate then White Hit? Considering how 50% of our dmg is poison?

It's worth noting that hit increases your poison damage as well. So yeah, each 46 points of mastery increases your poison damage by 2%; however, each 31 points of hit increases your poison damage by about 1%, and all your white damage by a similar amount; assuming white damage accounts for (say) 20% of your damage and poisons for 50, the comparison is then:

46 points of mastery = 2% * 50% = 1% damage increase.
46 points of hit = 1.5% * 70% = 1.05% damage increase.

So: very very close. Hit perhaps slightly better. Also known as: roughly whats in the first post of this thread.

Originally Posted by Nokkad

I know you guys are much smarter and better than I am at this sort of thing so I wanted to ask, for PvE Assassination, why Murderous Intent which is only usable when the mob is >35% and not Improved Expose Armor which makes it free and ups the dmg of the entire raid? It also means you don't have to deviate from a single rotation.

Because all druids and prot warriors can also keep it up for free, for less effort. And Murderous Intent, while it might only work 35% of the fight, gives you a pretty significant DPS increase for that 35% and thus is an appreciable boost to your average DPS over the duration of the fight.

• Aldriana · 10/13/10, 10:20 PM

Originally Posted by Thugdraft

I've been flipping through all of the threads on this forum looking for the reasoning behind adding rupture back into the combat rotation at 80 post 4.01. I have not seen the benefit to doing so in-game but that doesn't mean anything necessarily. If anyone can point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated.

Edit: A link to a post discussing it is all I am really looking for. All I was able to find is this and this. The first is an older post. The second ultimately prompted me post the question in the first place.

Short answer: Lightshadow did some estimates while creating his spreadsheet, and found that rupture-based cycles are pretty clearly ahead of evis cycles - see his spreadsheet thread for additional commentary. My rough napkinmath puts the gap at around 200-300 DPS, so it isn't *completely* crippling to drop eviscerate (on, for instance, trash) but it's definitely significantly better to use rupture.

Indalecio · 10/13/10, 10:42 PM

There was some discussion earlier about combat's numbers being low and part of it was initially dismissed due to a low rupture up time (~55-56%)on the cited fight.

However, most of ICC25 tonight as well as random dummy practice, I'm not coming up with much more than mid 50% myself, nor the other combat (or even assassination) rogue in the raid. What numbers are other people coming up with?

Grizzles · 10/13/10, 11:35 PM

Here is my relatively limited parse from tonight where I had 74.9% uptime for Rupture on Saurf.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

For comparison, here is a parse for a mutilate rogue in a friends guild from tonight. He had 78.9% uptime on Rupture for the same fight. He also had 77.6% uptime for Rotface.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

55% is pretty low.

Pyriana · 10/13/10, 11:57 PM

Dunno if it's been posted yet, in the middle of a raid so haven't had a chacne to read, but HAT is currently bugged, I'm randomly losing my combo points for no reason...it's hindering my dps a LOT

Theone · 10/14/10, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Pyriana

Dunno if it's been posted yet, in the middle of a raid so haven't had a chacne to read, but HAT is currently bugged, I'm randomly losing my combo points for no reason...it's hindering my dps a LOT

Lets say your Player A, and one of your party members is Player B. Both of you have Different targets. Player A gets 4 points on lets say the Boss, and Player B crits on his different target, which then puts a Combo point onto that target instead of yours. Which then erases Player A's target points.

Been playing WoW for awile now and I still dont understand why Blizz doesnt add Combo points onto YOU, not adds. This would also get rid of having to use the skill Redirect.

Karv · 10/14/10, 12:34 AM

I really hope Aldriana comes in here and states something different from what I have found but here we go...

Gemming As stated towards the beginning of the thread, the best set-up is socketing is as follows...
Red = +20 Agi
Yellow = +10 Agi +10 Haste
Blue = +10 Agi +10 Hit

Enchanting The changes for enchants on your items are as follows...
Boots = +16 Agi
Hands = +20 Agi
Cloak = +22 Agi
Everything else can remain the same...I have not tried Mongoose yet on my daggers but i haven't seen much information on this compared to beserking. Maybe in the near future i will have more information for you guys.

Reforging For high gear scores and optimal set-ups i have done the following. Any items with...
Crit --> Hit /// Crit --> Haste
Depending on Hit Rating changing...
Hit --> Haste

Testing I just completed a full hour of test with my friend from Gentlemens Club you guys can armory his gear The World of Warcraft Armory - Zn @ Korgath - Profile

We have found that the teir [(helm + pants) + (Cultist Shoulders + Aldriana's Gloves)] Have produced the highest average dps over these combinations...

Note:With his set-up and always having Ikfirus's Sack of Wonder
It is better than.. 4/4 Tier pieces, Cultist + Geistlords w/ 2/4 Tier pieces(pants and hands).

Overall:We have found that rogues solo (on dummies) have now had a boost in overall dps. However, in raids (test in ICC 25, TOGC 25) rogues have stayed the same. This is most discouraging and interesting... As our stats have fully increased to almost perfect, while the removal of Dual-Wield Spec and the nerf of raid buffs has kept us at the same page.

He noticed the around the same overall dps on fights such a Saurfang, Festergut, Rotface, Queen. However, noticed that mages, boomkin druids, death knights and warlocks have surpassed his dps by the multiple of thousands.
I hope this information is either countered or corrected. In no way is this BIS slot for mutliate rogues or the best thing to do for them. This was just my time spent to see what works best for what i have at the time. All comments and questions are welcome. Hopefully we can get some more information with spreadsheets and other things to see what is going on with rogues now in the new patch.

Littleboylitt · 10/14/10, 12:48 AM

Just an idea, as I have no idea how to test the dps increase, but would improved gouge and using gouge in your rotation possibly increase your dps? Since gouge, which awards one combo point and deals some damage would only cost 15 energy, and you could use the glyph so that you can use the ability while behind your target?

fourdots · 10/14/10, 12:59 AM

I've noticed that the tooltips for mutilate and backstab, among others, do not give a damage number or percentage or anything like that, just a vague description of the attack. Is this just temporary until Blizz works things out in 4.0? It's nice to be able to look at a tooltip for any eyeball idea of what the attack does. Thanks.

darkmisfit · 10/14/10, 1:06 AM

Originally Posted by fourdots

I've noticed that the tooltips for mutilate and backstab, among others, do not give a damage number or percentage or anything like that, just a vague description of the attack. Is this just temporary until Blizz works things out in 4.0? It's nice to be able to look at a tooltip for any eyeball idea of what the attack does. Thanks.

Go into your interface options and turn of "Beginner Tooltips"

Cissalie · 10/14/10, 2:17 AM

Originally Posted by John Galt

I apologize for my novice question and the amateur context. As a mut rogue, where are you fitting SnD into your rotation?

In 3.3.5 10-man, I was applying bleed effects via a garrote opening, which often yielded 1 CP. My 2nd GCD was HfB and the third used up that CP on SnD. From here I began my mut rotation.

Now I'm opening with mut that yields 2-3 CP, my second GCD is another mut and by then I'm applying my first rupture asap. If I'm rewarded 1 bonus CP from the rupture, I SnD then. But if not, my next mut could give 2-3 CP, and then I'm only 1 more mut from a 4+ finisher.

So when are you hitting SnD in your rotation? Right after opening with mut ( if you even open with mut ) even if it's a 3CP SnD? That inherently seems like a DPS loss.

I'm just now doing mutilate, was combat before the patch, but I start with Ambush - SnD - Vendetta - Mut (1 or 2 depending on cp's) - Rupture - Mutilate (1 or 2) - Cold Blood - Envenom and by the time I get to Envenom there's about 2-3 sec left on the 2 CP SnD.

zhrgg · 10/14/10, 2:38 AM

Originally Posted by Cissalie

I'm just now doing mutilate, was combat before the patch, but I start with Ambush - SnD - Vendetta - Mut (1 or 2 depending on cp's) - Rupture - Mutilate (1 or 2) - Cold Blood - Envenom and by the time I get to Envenom there's about 2-3 sec left on the 2 CP SnD.

I think it's a good idea to start with Garrote to get Venomous Wounds proccing ASAP.