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Old 10/16/10, 6:16 AM   #331
Samdurok
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Azuremyst (EU)
Trinkets

Was wondering if anyone had done any testing on darkmoon card greatness trinket for the new patch and/or if any would be able to advise on its proc rates in relation to other trinkets being considered?

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Old 10/16/10, 7:33 AM   #332
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
Greatness is markedly worse than DV, which is loosely the lowest-end trinket that's listed. It's still going to be significantly better than most trinkets, but it's not relevant to raiders this late in content. I would suggest taking a look at lightshadow's spreadsheet if you need more information (though I'm not sure if he's included greatness in his sheet). DMC:G is extraordinary for an ilvl 200 trinket, but it's not a good option these days. There's not really any testing to be done because its procrate is unchanged. Just multiply rough EP values to find out if it's better than what you have.

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Old 10/16/10, 10:24 AM   #333
Penkis
Banned
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Frostmane (EU)
I haven't seen this discussed so I'll ask it here.
If you have about 5 seconds left on your rupture and you are sitting on 5 combo points, is it better to refresh it and get envenom up and runnig asap or do you wait it out until you rupture again?
Since rupture is only about 2-3% of your dmg I would reckon that the uptime is more important than a few missed rupture ticks?
What do you think?

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Old 10/16/10, 11:40 AM   #334
mtawney13
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Drenden
Originally Posted by Penkis View Post
I haven't seen this discussed so I'll ask it here.
If you have about 5 seconds left on your rupture and you are sitting on 5 combo points, is it better to refresh it and get envenom up and runnig asap or do you wait it out until you rupture again?
Since rupture is only about 2-3% of your dmg I would reckon that the uptime is more important than a few missed rupture ticks?
What do you think?
Five seconds should be more than enough time to envenom and build another set of combo points to refresh rupture before it falls off.

If the timing was tighter (Say, 2 seconds before it wears off), I would probably rupture. That way, you do not potentially lose out on energy regen from VW, and since it uses less energy then envenom, you should be able to quickly get the envenom buff back up anyways.

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Old 10/16/10, 12:04 PM   #335
broon
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Kel'Thuzad
So i have read everything that has been posted and there was a short little piece on going with mongoose on assassination daggers and not beserking. Forgive me if i read past that but i was looking for a little more incite on why that would be better. Does mongoose have a better proc rate? or is it because the agility give Ap and crit chance along with the minor speed increase?

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Old 10/16/10, 1:20 PM   #336
Lithios
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by Sarvius View Post
Greatness is markedly worse than DV, which is loosely the lowest-end trinket that's listed. It's still going to be significantly better than most trinkets, but it's not relevant to raiders this late in content. I would suggest taking a look at lightshadow's spreadsheet if you need more information (though I'm not sure if he's included greatness in his sheet). DMC:G is extraordinary for an ilvl 200 trinket, but it's not a good option these days. There's not really any testing to be done because its procrate is unchanged. Just multiply rough EP values to find out if it's better than what you have.
DV is the lowest end listed trinket? On what spreadsheet?

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Old 10/16/10, 1:36 PM   #337
fourdots
Von Kaiser
 
fourdots's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Gilneas
4 or 5 point rupture?

Is a 4cp rupture adequate, or should we be always shooting for the 5 pointer? If so, does that mean that Shiv now has a place on toolbar, for that one quick cp.

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Old 10/16/10, 2:42 PM   #338
Capivo
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Lightbringer (EU)
Do any one have a solution on the new queue ability system the have implentatet. I have tried to find some way around it, but with out any luck.
Does any one have a solution?

I have heared that they are working on a slider system, but cant find any thing about it.

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Old 10/16/10, 2:44 PM   #339
Feist-Mok
Im***est.
 
Feist-Mok's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Capivo View Post
Do any one have a solution on the new queue ability system the have implentatet. I have tried to find some way around it, but with out any luck.
Does any one have a solution?

I have heared that they are working on a slider system, but cant find any thing about it.
The new Ability Queue system is live and cannot be circumvented. Sometime soon, (Presumably in Patch 4.0.3/Cataclysm), a new Latency Compensation slider will be added that will help to mitigate the ability queue, but it is not live at this time.

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Old 10/16/10, 5:32 PM   #340
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
Originally Posted by Lithios View Post
DV is the lowest end listed trinket? On what spreadsheet?
First page of this thread.

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Old 10/16/10, 6:30 PM   #341
Phantomwrath
Glass Joe
 
Phantomwrath's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Thunderhorn
Originally Posted by broon View Post
So i have read everything that has been posted and there was a short little piece on going with mongoose on assassination daggers and not beserking. Forgive me if i read past that but i was looking for a little more incite on why that would be better. Does mongoose have a better proc rate? or is it because the agility give Ap and crit chance along with the minor speed increase?
Aldriana answered that on page 2 (HERE).

So now my turn to ask about something that may have been discussed already, but I didn't see it. What Poison should we be using on our thrown weapon? My initial thought was instant because of the higher single application amount of damage. Then realized as long as I got an application of Deadly on all the targets I hit, I would thus be adding the Savage Combat debuff to all targets.

So my assumption is to apply Deadly to thrown, and was wondering if someone could confirm that?

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Old 10/16/10, 6:33 PM   #342
Feist-Mok
Im***est.
 
Feist-Mok's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Phantomwrath View Post
Aldriana answered that on page 2 (HERE).

So now my turn to ask about something that may have been discussed already, but I didn't see it. What Poison should we be using on our thrown weapon? My initial thought was instant because of the higher single application amount of damage. Then realized as long as I got an application of Deadly on all the targets I hit, I would thus be adding the Savage Combat debuff to all targets.

So my assumption is to apply Deadly to thrown, and was wondering if someone could confirm that?
Wound will be the ideal poison for FoK for non-Assassination specs, once the range bug is fixed. (Is it already? If so, can someone confirm?) - it has the highest proc rate and DPS without Vile Poisons or Deadly Poison, and it applies Savage Combat to all targets - with a much higher chance to do so than Deadly Poison does.

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Old 10/16/10, 8:47 PM   #343
Speaker
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Kil'Jaeden
Originally Posted by Feist-Mok View Post
Wound will be the ideal poison for FoK for non-Assassination specs, once the range bug is fixed. (Is it already? If so, can someone confirm?) - it has the highest proc rate and DPS without Vile Poisons or Deadly Poison, and it applies Savage Combat to all targets - with a much higher chance to do so than Deadly Poison does.
It has been fixed for awhile, though combat has the worst aoe capabilities with ambidexterity not affecting FoK.

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Old 10/16/10, 9:03 PM   #344
trbodsl
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Stormrage
Has anyone checked the Expertise cap from your character sheet? It claims to be 200exp. to have a 0.00% chance to be dodged on a lvl 83 boss. I did 7500 auto swings on the boss target dummy with 172 exp. with no dodges. We may want further testing.



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Old 10/16/10, 9:21 PM   #345
Shaithis
Von Kaiser
 
Shaithis's Avatar
 
Undead Rogue
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by trbodsl View Post
Has anyone checked the Expertise cap from your character sheet? It claims to be 200exp. to have a 0.00% chance to be dodged on a lvl 83 boss. I did 7500 auto swings on the boss target dummy with 172 exp. with no dodges. We may want further testing.
I don't use Recount, but is it possible that it's flagging dodges under misses?

It also is possible that the dummy is not properly flagged. I'll do some testing tonight.

Edit:

Test 1: Tried with 13 expertise, got a dodge right away.

Test 2: Tried with 21 expertise and not a single dodge for five minutes so far. Hmm....gonna take off some expertise and keep testing to find the "cap."

Test 3: Tried with 15 expertise (123 rating), 5 minutes and no dodges.

Test 4: Tried with 116 rating. No dodges over a 5 minute span.

Test 5: Tried with 108 rating: 2619 swings, 53 dodges, a cool 2% which is exactly what the tooltip says for LEVEL 81 targets. This is the heroic dummy by the way.

Will do more testing in raids on Sunday to see if this holds true across the board.

Last edited by Shaithis : 10/17/10 at 2:18 PM.

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