Looking at the listed EP's, it seems that Flexweave Underlay should keep it's +23 Agi for Engineering to stay competitive with BS/JC and Enchanting. This is under the assumptions of the data I could obtain from mmo-champion.

Engineering:
Hyperspeed Accelerators: ~68 Haste (150 MEP/156 CEP)
Flexweave Underlay: 23 Agi (64 MEP/67 CEP)
Nitro Boots: (from Aldriana's post on professions) ~(10 MEP/10 CEP)

Since tinker's no longer take the place of enchants those are all gains versus the norm, therefore
Total: 224 MEP/ 233 CEP

Blacksmithing:
Bracer Socket: +40 Agi (the new Superior gems) (112 MEP/116 CEP)
Glove Socket: +40 Agi (the new Superior gems) (112 MEP/116 CEP)

Total: 224 MEP/ 232 CEP

Jewelcrafting:
First JC Gem: +67 Agi (the new JC gems) (188 MEP/194 CEP)
Second JC Gem: +67 Agi (the new JC gems) (188 MEP/194 CEP)
Third JC Gem: +67 Agi (the new JC gems) (188 MEP/194 CEP)

Since these will take the place of +40 Agi gems the norm EP is (112 MEP/116 CEP) each.

Total: 228 MEP/ 234 CEP

Enchanting:
The new ring enchants are both +40 Agi: (112 MEP/116 MEP) each

Total: 224 MEP/ 232 CEP

Tailoring:
Rank 2 Swordguard is 800 AP, up from 400 AP. Assuming that the uptime is the same, and using the math from Aldriana's profession post this should come out to: ~(256 MEP/256 CEP)

The new cloak enchant is +65 Crit Rating which is (91 MEP/104 CEP) which beats out the +22 Agi enchant.

Thus,
Total: 165 MEP/ 152 CEP

I haven't found any information on the new Fur Lining, Inscription of the Axe, or how Mixology plays with the 300 Agi Flask, but I would assume that they would be consistent with the +80 Agi from Enchanting.

So unless Blizz wants Engineers to continue to spam bombs on CD, which I sincerely hope they don't, the +23 Agi on Flexweave will probably stay.

It will be interesting to see if they change Swordguard to make it fall more in-line with the other profession bonuses; however, since I made quite a few assumptions (notably that our EP values will be similar at 85) and that crit might be (i doubt it) a less desirable stat for other AP classes, it remains to be seen whether this profession discrepancy exists on other classes, or even for rogues at 85.

Berserking lowers your armour, but Mongoose doesn't raise it since agility no longer gives armour in 4.0.

Edit: Does it still give dodge?

In subtlety, would it really be better to use backstab compared to say, using hemorrhage with an axe or a sword? Knowing that we can't spec into Puncturing Wounds just yet and also being allowed to Ambush without a dagger now, I don't know what to think.

Agi still gives dodge, yes.

Does Bandit's Guile look like it will be affecting rotation currently? Or is it more a set it and forget it talent?

I'm assuming if it doesn't screw up your rotation too much you would want to refresh SnD during 5%, and either refresh Rupture or use an Evisc at 15%


Does revealing strike affect rupture?

How does the new ToTT Glyph interact with 2pcT10? Would we get +30 energy?

What is the optimal way to use Vanish as Subtlety? Do we wait for us to gain stealth for MoS, or are the 3 seconds of no dps not worth it?

I understand that you'd still want to use Vanish as a CD for Sub, as you can get another Premed+Shadowstep'ed Ambush in for Find Weakness.

You're making the mistake of comparing Engineerings level 80 perks to other professions perks at 85. At 85, Engineering gains stat bonuses through the introduction of new Engi specific 'gems': ( Rigid Hydraulic Pump - Item - World of Warcraft and Quick Cogwheel - Item - World of Warcraft being two examples) - +23 Agi from Flexweave is unbalanced at 80, is inconsistent, and is most likely a bug. There's really no reason for it to remain.

A better question, at the moment, is whether Swordguard stacks with standard enchants in the same way that tinkers do. Unlikely, but worth testing.

Concerning Sub's Initiative vs. Premed, as long as you are getting in more than 2 Ambushes per SDance, Initiative returns more CP's than Premed, at the cost of an extra talent point, which given the fillers, shouldn't be an issue. Of course, taking both Initiative and Premed is preferable.

Edit: Has it been confirmed anywhere that Recuperate is coming out pre-Cata release? I hadn't seen any post hinting that it would be, and upon seeing Aldriana's spec with 3/3 in Energetic Recovery, I thought I'd take another look and still have found nothing.

I was under the impression Cogwheels and Hydraulic Pumps could only be socketed in the Engineer specific goggles. ie, Agile Bio-Optic Killshades - Spells - Sigrie Agi/stam/two stats of your choice. Comparing those 'gems' to a normal hat with 4 stats, and it looks -- at best -- equivalent, not an engineer stat boost.

I had also found a list of new engineer tinkers, but I can't seem to locate it anymore...
All I can find that's new is a 'zapper' that does the same amount of damage as the pyro rocket, but on a 2 minute cooldown, and two different cloak tinkers that have no passive. So I guess my point is invalid, I suppose flexweave will have its agility removed.

It was available on PTR, which is 4.0.1, so... yes. Recuperate is trainable at level 16.

I know its just a best guess on glyphs right now, but after looking at Vendetta glyph I was wondering if that will be available with 4.0.1? An additional 6 seconds on a 20% modifier cd compared to 5 energy on bs crits which I am assuming we will only bs <35% similar to an execute via murderous intent talent. I haven't been able to get the ptr to patch properly so I haven't had the opportunity to see how well murderous intent pans out.

For Lv80 and Tier1 raids, I'm thinking the choice between the two will depend on how quickly the encounter ends. As with all buff stacking, their value increases the shorter the fight becomes (higher uptime of the buffs compared to length of fight). But, with the low cost of Vanishing dust (required to swap glyphs), it shouldn't be a major hassle to swap things out on a per-fight basis.

Thanks for the quick feedback. I can see with the huge health pool on H LK how long you really are at <35% if it is a quick zerg of something I could easily swap to vendetta if I wanted.

If they convert characters on live the same way they did the characters on the PTR, Hunger for Blood glyphs will become Vendetta glyphs.

This is a 4.01 thread not Cata. I believe most of the above is for Cata.

I lost both the +10 stats to Chest and Icewalker on boots on my PTR copy. Does anyone know if these are gone in 4.01 (or a bug) and if so what is now best for this gear?

Edit: seems like a bug as other non-equipped gear in the bank kept the stats in the conversion.

What's about TAiAJ Heroic for Mutylate? We see only 600 EP. Why does this trinket lose its efficiency?

So I noticed while messing around on my crappy geared warrior, that Needle Encrusted Scorpion is now a haste proc. Given the trinkets that my rogue currently has available to him, (HWT, Normal WFS, normal TiaJ and the needle encrusted scorpion), I was wondering if the scorpion was worth using given the value of haste over WFS or TiaJ as assassination. I dont need the hit rating from TiaJ.

I have seen a few posts regarding reforging crit to hit all the way up to the white hit cap. Why is this? Because looking at the rough EP values posted by Aldriana it seems going to spell hit and then reforging haste seems far superior.

You currently cannot reforge an item's stat into another stat that's on the item already. And since most items now have both haste and crit on them after the ArPen conversion, your only choices for reforging those items are into either hit, expertise, or mastery.

Well, it still didnt answer the OP's question - why are people trying to get the white hit cap? Isnt haste better after the spellhit cap?

Because you already have haste in the equipment piece you are reforging, thus unable to reforge for haste. And as White hit seems better than crit, people reforge crit to hit. Expertise capped, mastery or white hit, usually favors white hit.

So, there hasn't been much discussion on Major Glyphs. These are my thoughts/choices for combat:

1. FOK - adds 50% range (8 -> 12 yards)
2. Feint - Reduces energy cost by 20 (Feint uses no energy) - I use Feint a lot for the aoe reduction (LDW Ghosts, LK Spirits, Sin aoe, etc.)
3. Blade Flurry - Increases the energy generation from 80% to 90% of normal when active (if I understand the tool tip correctly) - Seems valuable as you will have this up 50% of time in aoe situations. BTW, does anyone know if BF procs on FOK hits (effectively doubling an FOK)?

Other interesting Majors for consideration:

Kick - Adds 4 seconds to CD (making it 14 seconds) but reduces it by 6 seconds (to 8 per my understanding) if it interrupts. As you are rarely the only interrupter in raid fights it seems to me this would be an overall increase in CD on average due to the number of misses I normally get.

Tricks - Makes Tricks use no energy but reduces target bonus by 5% (from 15% -> 10%). Not as good as T10 2P. May be interesting with new gear sets in Cata.

Crippling Poison - Adds 20% chance to hit (50% -> 70%). Really only 2 uses - Sauf Blood Beasts (normally handled by Typhoons) and LK Valks (not really an issue and there are many other raid slows/stuns available and 50% seems good enough).

Comments?