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03/19/11, 8:48 AM
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#166
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Glass Joe
Troll Rogue
Stormreaver (EU)
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I have a question about the trinkets, how much should we rely on the engines ep values for them ? It's giving Tia's Grace heroic and Cyclone as superior to Fluid Death and Prestor's. Is this correct or should I rely on the trinket graph found in the assassination guide ?
I also found that weapons are not sorted by EP.
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03/19/11, 9:40 AM
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#167
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Von Kaiser
Human Rogue
Argent Dawn (EU)
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So, I was messing a bit more with the tool and I have to say, it's really awesome. I mean - yeah of course we all were excited about it since we saw the preview. But now when it's actually available and I spent some time using it to tweak my rogue, I can fully appreciate it's value. And it's really great, thank you for your effort! And of course, big thanks to Aldriana for developing the engine in the first place, this would not be possible without it.
I have few more suggestions for improvements that you can add to your "todo" list. Those are just minor so there is no need to bother with them untill all glitches affecting actualy functionality are resolved. - Non-dps glyphs (feint, blade flurry, ...) are showing after import from armory, but will disappear from the list when un-clicked.
- I guess that [Glyph of Tricks of the Trade] assumes that you are using tricks on cooldown, which may not be true in all cases. And does the engine assume that you are also receiving tricks on cooldown from another rogue? Perhaps you could add checkboxes for those two, just like Aldriana's WLK spreadsheet used to have.
- There are nonexistent PvP items in the database. You can check this link - only items, that have source: PvP or Vendors actually exist, the rest is datamined garbage that remained there since Cataclysm beta. Same goes for some PvP weapons and set pieces. I also reported this issue on wowhead feedback forum so they may fix it soon, hopefully.
- [Stormwake the Tempest's Reach] is there in only 2 variations out of total 4. On the other hand, there is also the caster version without any stats down there in the list.
- It seems that PvP set bonuses are not supported (according to stats list on the left). Which is kinda shame considering that it's the agility set bonus that makes a pair of PvP armor pieces competitive to 359 gear.
- Is [Unheeded Warning] updated to 4.0.6 version with proc increasing weapon damage? It's value feels kinda low, but maybe I am wrong about this one.
- Both Adrenaline Rush and Revealing Strike are talents with no passive bonuses that unlock an ability used in our rotation. But in the "Talent Rankings" table, only Adrenaline Rush has an EP value, Revealing Strike is listed with 0.
I guess I can find more of those in future. Should I past them here again (so others can see what issues were reported already), or should we keep the thread clean and PM this kind of reports instead?
Last edited by Fae : 03/19/11 at 9:44 AM.
Reason: changed the list to ordered for better references
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03/19/11, 9:43 AM
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#168
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Glass Joe
Troll Rogue
Doomhammer (EU)
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Great UI, Antiarc, feels very polished. A few suggestions, however:
Would it be possible to put the gear on a different scroll area from the stats and EP values? (Similarily to Caffeine's UI) For example, you might want to see how your hit rating changes when you change your ranged weapon without scrolling back and forth.
It also seems as if saving snapshots of your gear doesn't save the state of the "Settings"-tab. This is a little annoying as I know, for example, that I never have the 30% bleed debuff in my 10 man raids, so currently I will have to uncheck that checkbox every time I load a snapshot to get correct EP values.
I'd also love implementation of the alchemy profession. It's just a little annoying to have to fake it with blacksmith sockets, etc.
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03/19/11, 1:17 PM
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#169
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Glass Joe
Human Rogue
Khaz'goroth (EU)
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Great UI many thanks to you to make that for us!
Would it be possible to add an option so we could export/import it with an editor like it is with Caffeine's Shadowcraft-test? So it would fix the problem with the "Settings"-Tab.
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03/19/11, 3:10 PM
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#170
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Still alive
Human Rogue
Cenarion Circle
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@Fae:
1. Indeed - the UI shows any selected glyphs, or glyphs with an EP value.
2. It does indeed. The assumption is that if you're using the Tricks glyph, you're using it on cooldown and receiving it from another rogue on cooldown. The engine doesn't allow for "you receive tricks, but don't give it", and you giving it but not receiving it is obviously not a DPS increase, so it's not worth modeling in this context.
3. I can clean up the nonexistent items. I did an initial import of gear from Wowhead, and then additional gear is loaded as it is discovered on people. Obviously this means a bit of cleanup may be necessary.
4. Additional versions of Stormreach will be automatically added to the item list as people with them equipped import their characters. I'll clean the non-stat versions.
5. PVP Set bonuses are indeed not supported. It should be trivial for me to support them; I'll add them.
6. Unheeded Warning is still using pre-4.0.6 values. I'll see if I can update the engine to support it, but if it's already done, or someone else wants to tackle it, I'd appreciate it. My strengths lie in application design, not theorycraft.
7. Revealing Strike is not modeled by the engine right now - hence, its DPS value is shown as 0.
@Rubbersoul Settings should be persisted both in the save/load, and in the hashbang after the URL. If it's not, it's a bug. The intent is that those two features should serve as a replacement for a typical export.
Edit: Settings fixed; boolean "false" values were not being preserved properly. Additionally, I merged two fixes from Caffeine (julienp) that should correct two nasty little bugs (thanks!)
Last edited by Antiarc : 03/19/11 at 4:21 PM.
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Need a Mumble server? I run MMO-Mumble for all your voice chat needs. | My rogue planning tool: Shadowcraft
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03/19/11, 3:23 PM
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#171
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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Could your clarify that last point a bit? I admit its been a while since I touched the code, but IIRC there's an option in the Combat cycles to select RvS usage. Do you just mean it doesn't turn itself off automatically when you deselect the talent?
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03/19/11, 3:36 PM
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#172
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Still alive
Human Rogue
Cenarion Circle
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Sorry - the talent DPS calculations come back from the engine with RvS as 'not implemented' - it looks like that's because the engine throws an exception when trying to compute its DPS contribution. See https://github.com/Aldriana/ShadowCr...init__.py#L248
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Need a Mumble server? I run MMO-Mumble for all your voice chat needs. | My rogue planning tool: Shadowcraft
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03/19/11, 4:04 PM
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#173
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Rogue
Uldum (EU)
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The engine does compute RvS, what is not implemented is the lack of the talent itself. That is: it's trying to come up with an EP (a dps difference actually) value for the talent but the modeler is throwing this exception when setting it off, hence the talent_ranking asserts somethign went wonky when feeding the modeler.
Last edited by nextormento : 03/19/11 at 4:10 PM.
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03/19/11, 4:06 PM
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#174
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Von Kaiser
Goblin Rogue
Kilrogg (EU)
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Originally Posted by Antiarc
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The wording isn't great, but talents that show up as "not implemented" in the talent EP calculations are talents that are required, and not having them isn't implemented (so their value can't really be calculated). Master Poisoner and Cut to the Chase behave similarly.
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03/19/11, 4:11 PM
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#175
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Still alive
Human Rogue
Cenarion Circle
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Originally Posted by Caffeine
The wording isn't great, but talents that show up as "not implemented" in the talent EP calculations are talents that are required, and not having them isn't implemented (so their value can't really be calculated). Master Poisoner and Cut to the Chase behave similarly.
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Right - it's not that its contribution is 0, but that computing its DPS contribution is not implemented, since the model depends on its presence. You said it better than I. 
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Need a Mumble server? I run MMO-Mumble for all your voice chat needs. | My rogue planning tool: Shadowcraft
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03/19/11, 4:12 PM
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#176
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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Right - what's happening underneath the hood is found here: https://github.com/Aldriana/ShadowCr...init__.py#L864
Basically, there's two things that can be done if you request a cycle that includes RvS but don't take the talent - throw an error (which is what we do) or assume you want to remove RvS from the cycle as well and automatically correct. Personally, I think from a library perspective what we're currently doing is correct - it only does what you tell it to do, and doesn't assume it knows what you want. It *could* be changed to handle this case if people think it better, but I'd be more inclined to stick something in the talent evaluation logic to automatically update the cycle instead.
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03/19/11, 5:15 PM
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#177
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Still alive
Human Rogue
Cenarion Circle
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I went ahead and added checkboxes for "tricks on cooldown" and "receiving tricks from another rogue". After a bit more exploration, I decided they made sense.
I'm fine with RvS as-is. The rotation options already include an option for "don't use it", so if you want to see what your DPS would be without it, there's that, and there's not another DPS talent to spend that point on, so it's a moot point.
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Need a Mumble server? I run MMO-Mumble for all your voice chat needs. | My rogue planning tool: Shadowcraft
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03/19/11, 6:03 PM
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#178
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Glass Joe
Pandaren Rogue
Boulderfist
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Auto-regem is asking me to use 4 Delicate Chimera's Eyes.
Other than that, loving the interface, good work guys.
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03/19/11, 7:17 PM
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#179
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Eyelaser Ninja Pirate
Troll Rogue
Burning Blade
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I noticed when playing around with some gear choices that the "suggested reforge" when you click "Reforge Item" doesn't seem to consider "don't reforge this at all". When all reforging possibilities are downgrades, it picks the least terrible option. Is that intended?
ed: Excellent job overall though. Looking very nice.
Last edited by Viper : 03/19/11 at 7:38 PM.
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03/19/11, 7:20 PM
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#180
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Still alive
Human Rogue
Cenarion Circle
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I'm rewriting the single-item reforge stuff right now. I made some nasty mistakes when upgrading it to use Blizzard's compacted reforge format. Auto-reforge remains unaffected.
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Need a Mumble server? I run MMO-Mumble for all your voice chat needs. | My rogue planning tool: Shadowcraft
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