Avalanche can't proc off of instant? How can I test if it can proc off of wound? Does the combat log 100% tell the truth and any avalanche right after an attack was procced by that?

I've been opening with garrote if possible, then a one point slice and dice, then mutilate almost always twice (once if that takes me to four, which is rare), then envenom (or EA then envenom if in a heroic and no one is bringing the buff, to which I bring two points of improved expose armor). That refreshes the slice and dice and gives me time to get up a rupture and build combo points for a real envenom.

That method delays my rupture by about 10 seconds in the worst case, but it seems to pretty reliably keep up the slice and dice. It's frustrating to be making these decisions based on what feels right, but I so haven't had the time to math anything out yet. I also find that I'll use cold blood early in the fight with intention of getting extra energy to put up that rupture faster (cold blooding the first envenom).

My intuition is that paying as little for slice and dice as possible is correct, and that every combo point put on beyond the first is a "wasted" combo point, being that the energy return of rupture takes so long to add up to a whole mutilate. This method also gets S+D active on the second global, which has some small merit over the third I guess.

Consult the Mechanics Testing thread for IP/Avalanche information. I also did a shorter test that seemed to indicate that WP doesn't proc it either, but I didn't run it long enough to get full statistical confidence - partly because it was late and I was tired, and partly because the question is to some extent moot, as Wound Poison is generally not worth using for any spec.

I have a question about this that I haven't seen addressed here. It seems as though the focus of the discussion has been on cp generators and finishers, and I understand the part they play in exp's relative lack of ep weight now. But now that my exp is in the dumper, I've also noticed that about 5% of my melee swings are being dodged as well. Bearing in mind that a certain percentage of melee swings are going to be misses anyway, it seems as though by having a low exp rating that we're effectively raising the number of misses we have from all sources, resulting in a loss of physical and poison damage that was never an issue in Wrath.

So I'm just wondering if the recovery of some of that lost dps might give one a reason to want to raise one's exp, not to the cap perhaps, but at least to the point where the melee swings are being dodged at a significantly lower rate.

As it turns out, missing white attacks just isn't that big a deal for Assassination - Expertise's effect on white attacks is the same as white hit, which, I might note, is the weakest stat for Assassination rogues, behind even crit. Its not that those misses don't cost you damage - they do - it just turns out that fixing this is less efficient than making your poisons hit harder (mastery) or having more attacks to start with (haste).

The reason why we focus on the yellow effects of expertise is that that's what differentiates it from white hit. And as it turns out, those differences work out to a small amount of energy lost needed to reapply dodged Mutilates, Backstabs, and finishers, mitigated slightly by increased Envenom uptime. So expertise is a little better than white hit... but not a *lot* better, and in particular not good enough to be worth capping in many cases.

hmmm, it is a bit of off topic, but i got a question ...

is the requirement for relentless earthsiege diamond fixed yet?

very much no
they said future patch so we'll prolly have to wait for that

Here's some values for some of the trinkets for people too lazy to do their own math (assuming 100% uptime on Fluid/Tia and 20% uptime on the procs):

Mutilate:

[Prestor's Talisman of Machination]: 1467
[Fluid Death]: 1437
[Essence of the Cyclone]: 1336
[Prestor's Talisman of Machination]: 1297
[Essence of the Cyclone]: 1182
[Tia's Grace]: 1149


Combat:

[Prestor's Talisman of Machination]: 1633
[Fluid Death]: 1572
[Prestor's Talisman of Machination]: 1445
[Essence of the Cyclone]: 1394
[Essence of the Cyclone]: 1233


As Fluid Death & Tia's Grace are easily obtainable, I found no reason to do any other trinket which is below them.

A warning though, the proc uptime is closer to 18%~, so the values for proc trinkets are abit inflated, for example [Prestor's Talisman of Machination] would be about 1414 instead. It also doesn't take into account the ramp-up time for Fluid/Tia, which is going to affect their EP too, but not by much at all.

Just because you can't make it to the cap is no reason not to try for it. Until you get there hit is more valuable than any other stat, so its just good sense to stack it. The spell hit cap is not some magical number that gives you a huge DPS bonus when you get there - its just the point where hit stops being the most valuable stat, such that you should prioritize some other stat instead.

Sorry, Tia's Grace is the only pre-raid available item, is it possible you could simply list how to test a trinket for EP values so I could do it myself? (and future reference)

Many thanks,

Nexism.

I wonder myself how strong Darkmoon Card: Hurricane is? You haven´t listed it. Is it really that bad?

edit: wowhead is down at the moment so I can´t link DMC: H sry about that...

Well, we don't actually have any testing on the proc rate for DMC, so its hard to say anything definitive; however, assuming its 1 PPM (which seems plausible) it's uninteresting for Mutilate but pretty good for Combat.

On a related note, I sort of disagree with the trinket EP values a couple posts back in this thread. I wrote a small program using ShadowCraft as the backend to compare trinkets for Assassination and Combat at specific near-BIS gear sets, and came up with the following trinket EP values:

Assassination
Combat
Note that Tia's Grace and Fluid Death may underperform their theoretical value on interrupted fights.

Also note that these are for a particular gear set at near BIS values; answers will be slightly different if you check at a different gear level or different assumptions. So while values above have 15 digits of precision, they're probably only accurate to 2 or 3 places, and - depending on how different your gear is from the set I used to generate the numbers - possibly not even that. However, it does provide a decent general picture of which trinkets are good and not.

A commenter on wowhead claims he had 41 procs in 10 minutes, with several procs in close succession. Does anyone have the tools to steadily test this? I'd really like some solid data before dropping 20-40k on a trinket.

Hi all,


After some test on Boss dummy, I have 0.04% of miss with 14.96% hit rating. It seems that the cap is down to 15% from 17%....

Have you the same result on your side ?

I can send some screenshot if you want....

After quickly running the numbers on this log, it would seem that 1 PPM is probably correct.

I've noticed this same thing, I have the enchant only on one weapon, and nothing on the other.
I am however very commonly getting two buffs from it up at the same time. I'd assume this is a bug has there been any confirmation?

You have 16.63% spell hit, don't look at your melee hit. Spell hit requires less hit rating for each percentage than melee hit.

just in case, translated version goes right on to my blog and here's the address:
나만의 공간 - 와우 암살 도�*�

Here goes nothing . Since hurricane is 540 ep and landslide is 1000 that would make landslide better but in my case after asking a GM my hurricane on MH and with no enchant on offhand procs twice all the time witch would make its EP 1080, Not sure if you toke that in when you made the EP 540 but if not that means its better if im not wrong.

The second stack you are seeing is proccing through your poisons. Afaik you can have 3 buffs at once, one from each hand (if both weapons are enchanted with it, obviously) and one from the spell (poison) procs.

My appologies, I was partially retarded that day. I was supposed to multiply that high number by the percent of uptime, whcih I did not. One or two posts after that Aidriana corrected me. As far as the hurricane I think there are a few people that are testing the enchant further. I *believe* landslide will still be further ahead because of sheer uptime. But it may work out to be best to havelandslide on mh and hurricane offhand or the other way around. Maybe someone with more information can catch us both up.

Would we be able to get any insight as to whether H Tia's Grace is still at higher EP than H Key to the Endless Chamber at current gear levels? If we compare the trinket effect, Tia's Grace gives slightly less than 340 agility with the ramp-up time while Endless Chamber gives an average 342 agility, if we assume 20% uptime on the proc. Stat wise, Tia's Grace gives 285 mastery while Endless Chamber gives 285 hit. Given the trinket effects and the fact that spell hit capping can still be an issue, it would seem Endless Chamber is ahead.

Ok, I have hit the spell hit cap and begun reforging into mastery. My question, is there a cap for mastery in order to know when to start working on haste?