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Old 01/06/11, 11:15 AM   #226
Falakh
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Madoran
Weapon Specialization

I'm new to posting in these forums, although I read them often for all classes. My question pertains specifically to weapon specialization and expertise.

Since a human gets 3 expertise for sword/mace, how should I stack my expertise to get cap if my off-hand is neither? I understand that if I simply cap for my main hand (mace), I will leave my off-hand (dagger) short of cap. Do you simply go for the non-specialized cap to get both hands where they need to be? Is there a split difference somewhere? Right now, I have stacked to the 781 for non-specialized, but I would like to put those points elsewhere if I don't need to get that high.

Again, sorry if this is noobish. I'm sure it is.

EDIT: Seems I found the answer that the EP drops low enough that it is not worth capping the non-specialized hand. At this point, please let me know if my "found answer" is not right.

Last edited by Falakh : 01/06/11 at 11:25 AM.

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Old 01/06/11, 11:33 AM   #227
Probaton
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
Originally Posted by ieatpaperbag View Post

If you reach the expertise cap with only one hand because of an expertise racial, the value of expertise drops to 0.8 EP (this is regardless of MH or OH) which is below all other stats meaning it will not be worth capping the other hand.


As copy/pasted from the Combat Guide main post.

Have to admit that I was rather surprised the EP values for MH and OH exp caps were equal but I presume IEPB knows what he's talking about.

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Old 01/06/11, 11:50 AM   #228
Vaelaris
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Probaton View Post
It is and they are. Presumably during the next actual patch (as opposed to hotfix).
Just logged into the 4.0.6 PTR and can confirm that RED now requires at least two red gems.

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Old 01/06/11, 12:40 PM   #229
Radial
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Deathwing
What are the PPM rates for our various poisons?

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Old 01/06/11, 12:54 PM   #230
ieatpaperbag
Piston Honda
 
ieatpaperbag's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by Radial View Post
What are the PPM rates for our various poisons?
IP and WP are both normalized around 1.4 weapon speed with a base 20% (8.57 PPM) and 50% (21.43 PPM) to proc respectively. The rest of the poisons have a flat % chance to proc found on their tooltips.

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Old 01/06/11, 2:01 PM   #231
Radial
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by ieatpaperbag View Post
IP and WP are both normalized around 1.4 weapon speed with a base 20% (8.57 PPM) and 50% (21.43 PPM) to proc respectively. The rest of the poisons have a flat % chance to proc found on their tooltips.
The word normalized here is throwing me off. Are you saying that the IP and WP proc rates are the same regardless of the weapon speed, or that for a 1.4 speed weapon the proc rates are at 20% PPM and 50% PPM because the PPM is 8.57PPM and 21.43PPM respectivly?

I'm sorry, but your answer was confusing and only clouded this more for me.

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Old 01/06/11, 2:06 PM   #232
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
IP and WP used to be 20% and 50% respectively. A while back they converted it to a PPM such that autoattacking with a weapon of any speed would give the same number of poison procs per unit time. When they did so they selected the proc rate such that a 1.4 speed weapon would still proc at 20% and 50% (respectively). This resulted in PPM values of 8.57 and 21.43.

In short: the observation about a 1.4 speed weapon is designed to motivate why the PPM values are so odd.

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Old 01/06/11, 2:09 PM   #233
ieatpaperbag
Piston Honda
 
ieatpaperbag's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by Radial View Post
The word normalized here is throwing me off. Are you saying that the IP and WP proc rates are the same regardless of the weapon speed, or that for a 1.4 speed weapon the proc rates are at 20% PPM and 50% PPM because the PPM is 8.57PPM and 21.43PPM respectivly?

I'm sorry, but your answer was confusing and only clouded this more for me.
IP and WP were originally a flat 20% and 50% chance to proc. Now that they are normalized to a 1.4 speed weapon, the % chance to proc increases with slower weapon speeds and decreases with faster weapon speeds while maintaining the same PPM.

Double post.

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Old 01/06/11, 4:24 PM   #234
Vivisectia
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Skullcrusher
As a new and low-level combat rogue my entire focus has been doing as much damage as possible. However, I frequently pull agro off my tanks.
Q: Is this my problem or the tank's problem?
Q2: The only tools I seem to have to undo agro kill dps - run-away (too late when under attack), stop attacking or vanish. Are there other options before Feint is available? Do stuns - Blind, Distract, Kidney Shot, Gouge – affect agro?
Q3: Does poison damage contribute to agro or is that non-specific damage?
Q4: Should I just not worry about it, make friends with the healer and bash away?

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Old 01/06/11, 6:56 PM   #235
Grimwolf
Von Kaiser
 
Grimwolf's Avatar
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Turalyon
Originally Posted by Vivisectia View Post
As a new and low-level combat rogue my entire focus has been doing as much damage as possible. However, I frequently pull agro off my tanks.
Q: Is this my problem or the tank's problem?
Q2: The only tools I seem to have to undo agro kill dps - run-away (too late when under attack), stop attacking or vanish. Are there other options before Feint is available? Do stuns - Blind, Distract, Kidney Shot, Gouge – affect agro?
Q3: Does poison damage contribute to agro or is that non-specific damage?
Q4: Should I just not worry about it, make friends with the healer and bash away?
A: If you're dying, then it's your problem. Wait a second or 2 after the tank pulls before you asttack to let him build threat.
A2:Watch your threat table and stop attacking before you pull aggro. Vanish works great as is wipes your threat completely away. No, there are no other options before faint comes available at level 42. Tricks of the Trade does not become available until level 75. Everything affects threat.
A3:Everything affects threat.
A4:If the healer dies, it's the tanks fault. If the tank dies, it's the healers fault. If you die, it's your own damn fault. Find a way not to die.

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Old 01/06/11, 11:06 PM   #236
Monteen
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Shattered Hand (EU)
Being the only rogue in our 25mans at the moment i had the luxury of picking up 2 Uhn'agh Fash's and I was wondering if there had been any discussion on using 2 1.4 speed daggers pre execute phase then switching back to 1.8/1.4 at 35%

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Old 01/06/11, 11:45 PM   #237
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
While its true that MH speed matters less above 35%, its also true that MH *damage* matters less above 35%, so the situation doesn't really change that much. The fast dagger might only need to be 1.5 tiers better instead of 2, but in practice that works out to the same thing, so... still generally not a good idea.

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Old 01/07/11, 5:58 AM   #238
Appellation
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Rivendare
Originally Posted by Kireiray View Post
I'm wondering how useful hurricane is currently: it seems to be bugged. With it on two weapons I have seen it proc 3 stacks on me of 450 haste. Also, there is no ICD and just simply a 15% proc chance. It seems to be pretty amazing unless i'm missing something.
The triple proc on Hurricane isn't a bug. Since Hurricane can proc on melee dmg or spell casting, you can get three simultaneous buffs if it procs off both melee weapons and one our spell effects (the spell effects I've seen proc it are poisons and Recuperate ticks, but I'm sure there are others).

The Cataclysm mechanics testing thread explains Hurricane's proc behavior in a little more depth (e.g. procs off spells act differently depending on whether a melee proc is active or not)

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Old 01/07/11, 12:13 PM   #239
Naggert
Glass Joe
 
Naggert's Avatar
 
Human Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
trinket vs 2pc t bonus

I feel stupid for asking this, as I'm sure it have been asked before, but:

Short:
I've heard the biggest DPS increase for rogues is obtained from (1) weapons and (2) trinkets. So I'm pondering whether to buy [Fluid Death] or get 2 piece tier bonus.

Long:
Not sure what would gain the theoretical largest gain. Most of the EP tables shows the value for heroic gear, compared to the none HC version of [Fluid Death].
I've read somewhere the 2 piece tier bonus was worth 300 EP, and inspecting random users in here, shows that most of you have chosen Fluid Death over 2 piece tier bonus.

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Old 01/07/11, 12:37 PM   #240
seikei
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by Naggert View Post
I feel stupid for asking this, as I'm sure it have been asked before, but:

Short:
I've heard the biggest DPS increase for rogues is obtained from (1) weapons and (2) trinkets. So I'm pondering whether to buy [Fluid Death] or get 2 piece tier bonus.

Long:
Not sure what would gain the theoretical largest gain. Most of the EP tables shows the value for heroic gear, compared to the none HC version of [Fluid Death].
I've read somewhere the 2 piece tier bonus was worth 300 EP, and inspecting random users in here, shows that most of you have chosen Fluid Death over 2 piece tier bonus.
I can't speak for anyone else but I chose fluid death first because it appears I will not be upgrading out of that during this tier of content (ranked #2, just below heroic prestor's for assassination). While two pieces would probably be the best value per valor point, the penny-pincher in me says I'd be better served buying things that don't drop in Baradin Hold until I no longer have a choice.

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