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Old 01/07/11, 12:50 PM   #241
Naggert
Glass Joe
 
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Human Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
Yeah I also considered that fact. Trinkets seems to be harder to get than armorpieces / weapons imo.

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Old 01/07/11, 1:14 PM   #242
Grunge
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Rogue
 
Kor'gall (EU)
Originally Posted by seikei View Post
I can't speak for anyone else but I chose fluid death first because it appears I will not be upgrading out of that during this tier of content (ranked #2, just below heroic prestor's for assassination). While two pieces would probably be the best value per valor point, the penny-pincher in me says I'd be better served buying things that don't drop in Baradin Hold until I no longer have a choice.
Unfortunately, all of the non-set Valor Point gear is inferior to PvE Alternatives (at least for Assassination and with the exception of Fluid Death), so it's really a roll of the dice, as to which will drop first.
Rogue tier from Tol'Barad or Boots/Cloak from Halfus/Maloriak.

And considering you have a much larger loot table for Argaloth, then I'd rather invest in Tier.
Then again, you know the week after you buy either, you will see it drop from a boss.


Regardless hopefully Blizzard notices that there isn't a Agility ring available, there might be something to spend points on.

Last edited by Grunge : 01/07/11 at 1:19 PM.

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Old 01/07/11, 2:18 PM   #243
Lokar
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Black Dragonflight
Quick EXP questions for combat.

Is each point an upgrade? Meaning despite the percentage display not changing, is 701 better than 700?

781 is the current cap. Is point 781 worth less than point 780? The EXP point that gets you to 780 has an EP value of 1.6. What is the value of point 781?

Lastly, in reality getting EXACTLY 781 is pretty tough. Is it better to be 2 over, or 2 under?

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Old 01/07/11, 2:27 PM   #244
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Yes, every point counts. 701 is better than 700.

As a general rule, under. If you're a bit under, that means you have 2 points of itemization that are giving you some other stat (haste, say) instead of Expertise - so that's 2 itemization points giving you a 1.5 EP benefit instead of a 1.6 EP benefit, for a net loss of .2 EP. If, however, you're over, those same 2 itemization points do *nothing*, for a net loss of 2 * 1.6 = 3.2 EP.

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Old 01/07/11, 2:46 PM   #245
nerrickk
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Thunderlord
Originally Posted by Grunge View Post
Unfortunately, all of the non-set Valor Point gear is inferior to PvE Alternatives (at least for Assassination and with the exception of Fluid Death), so it's really a roll of the dice, as to which will drop first.
Rogue tier from Tol'Barad or Boots/Cloak from Halfus/Maloriak.

And considering you have a much larger loot table for Argaloth, then I'd rather invest in Tier.
Then again, you know the week after you buy either, you will see it drop from a boss.


Regardless hopefully Blizzard notices that there isn't a Agility ring available, there might be something to spend points on.
I don't have any proof that this is the case, but there is an agi ring from rep rewards, and no other rings from rep rewards. That leads me to believe this is working as intended.

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Old 01/07/11, 5:04 PM   #246
Kurojushi
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Akama
Does the Armor Penetration from Find Weakness affect the Ambush that applied it? (In other words, for soloing/pvp, is Find Weakness a good talent to make your opener more deadly?)

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Old 01/07/11, 6:43 PM   #247
Feist-Mok
It's just a sausage.
 
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Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by nerrickk View Post
I don't have any proof that this is the case, but there is an agi ring from rep rewards, and no other rings from rep rewards. That leads me to believe this is working as intended.
The flipside of this is that there are boots and cloaks for other specs as rep rewards, in addition to boots and cloaks for those same specs on the Valor vendor.

Additionally, non-agi users have access to a variety of other slots as rep gear including necks, gloves, belts and bracers.

In short, we have a comparable number of reputation epics available to us, but no other spec is missing an item on the VP vendor simply because the slot is duplicated on a rep vendor.

Originally Posted by missiletoad View Post
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Old 01/07/11, 6:46 PM   #248
Schmoopy
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Rogue
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Aldriana View Post
Yes, every point counts. 701 is better than 700.

As a general rule, under. If you're a bit under, that means you have 2 points of itemization that are giving you some other stat (haste, say) instead of Expertise - so that's 2 itemization points giving you a 1.5 EP benefit instead of a 1.6 EP benefit, for a net loss of .2 EP. If, however, you're over, those same 2 itemization points do *nothing*, for a net loss of 2 * 1.6 = 3.2 EP.
It would actually be a net loss of 2* (ep value of next best stat, haste in case of combat). So thats 2*1.5=3. I realize this doesn't make a large difference but it could with a larger delta between the stats being compared

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Old 01/07/11, 7:23 PM   #249
Killme888
Piston Honda
 
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Goblin Rogue
 
<FH>
Black Dragonflight
Originally Posted by Feist-Mok View Post
The flipside of this is that there are boots and cloaks for other specs as rep rewards, in addition to boots and cloaks for those same specs on the Valor vendor.

Additionally, non-agi users have access to a variety of other slots as rep gear including necks, gloves, belts and bracers.

In short, we have a comparable number of reputation epics available to us, but no other spec is missing an item on the VP vendor simply because the slot is duplicated on a rep vendor.
The difference being that there's only 1 slot of each of those item slots while there's 2 ring slots, I would assume that Blizzard did this on purpose so you could not obtain a set of rings w/o raiding. The best compromise would be to add another item to a rep vendor somewhere instead of adding a VP ring.

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Old 01/08/11, 12:20 AM   #250
Syncness
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Caelestrasz
Originally Posted by Naggert View Post
I feel stupid for asking this, as I'm sure it have been asked before, but:

Short:
I've heard the biggest DPS increase for rogues is obtained from (1) weapons and (2) trinkets. So I'm pondering whether to buy [Fluid Death] or get 2 piece tier bonus.

Long:
Not sure what would gain the theoretical largest gain. Most of the EP tables shows the value for heroic gear, compared to the none HC version of [Fluid Death].
I've read somewhere the 2 piece tier bonus was worth 300 EP, and inspecting random users in here, shows that most of you have chosen Fluid Death over 2 piece tier bonus.
Grab both your current trinkets, grab the EP value of Fluid Death, calculate differences.

Then calculate the EP upgrade of the "2nd" piece of T11, and then add 300EP on top of that.

You have your answer.

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Old 01/08/11, 4:05 AM   #251
Naggert
Glass Joe
 
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Human Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
Im quite sure it aint that simple. The gain from going from [Left Eye of Rajh] to [Fluid Death] is merely 229,57 EP. As you wrote, the 2 piece set bonus is 300 EP. Add the extra EP value of going from two 346 items to two 359 items (252,8EP), and that EP value will be FAR greater. (562,8EP)

With my current gear:
I get the total EP gain from t11 to be 562,8 EP, at a cost of 4400 VP, makes it 7,81 EP per VP.
Compared the EP gained from trinkets is 229,57 EP, at a cost of 1650 VP, makes it 7,18 EP per VP.

The gain seems greatest from 2 t11 pieces. However if FD is the 2nd best trinket in game, it wont be replaced, even from heroic raids. Besides it's gonna take me atlest another two weeks to get the last VP...
Hm.. I just dunno

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Old 01/08/11, 4:28 AM   #252
Syncness
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Caelestrasz
Originally Posted by Naggert View Post
Im quite sure it aint that simple. The gain from going from [Left Eye of Rajh] to [Fluid Death] is merely 229,57 EP. As you wrote, the 2 piece set bonus is 300 EP. Add the extra EP value of going from two 346 items to two 359 items (252,8EP), and that EP value will be FAR greater. (562,8EP)
Firstly, 229.57 EP is not merely. It's huge.

Second, obviously replacing one 346 with a 359 is going to be less beneficial than two 346s with 359s.

Finally, this thread is not a "what should I do with x y and z upgrades"; use a spreadsheet. They're everywhere.

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Old 01/08/11, 10:36 AM   #253
Phim
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Eldre'Thalas
So, I've sorted through pages and pages of posts never quite finding an answer to my question. That being said...is there a post someplace that shows the EP value of professions?

My rogue was BS for BC due to the crafted one hand mace which was a solid main hand weapon up to MH. Since Bliz decided not to offer any more amazing crafted weapons in cata, and only mediocre crafted weapons in WotLK, I'm starting to feel like the belt buckle and extra socket for gloves/bracers aren't worth the profession slot.

I saw a post where someone mentioned EP value for tailoring as a rogue, but at this point I've come to the conclusion the next best option for a profession would be either Eng (for tinkers), LW (for LW only leg armor kits and possible epic crafted gear), or enchanting (for ring enchants).

So, if there is a post with EP values for professions could someone link it please. Or at least give me some input on which profession would be the better option.

Currently I'm mine/jc - going to keep jc, just looking for a better profession than mining.

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Old 01/08/11, 11:48 AM   #254
Ymirsson
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Kult der Verdammten (EU)
All crafting professions have a approximate bonus of 80 Agility.
Except for LW, which changes your bracer enchant (50 haste or whatnot) to 130 Agi.
Gathering professions don't have that good boni.

But, instead of reading pages over pages of EJ discussion, you could have made yourself knowledgeable in the raid FAQ and then simply compare the possible benefits by yourself.

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Old 01/08/11, 12:25 PM   #255
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
If you want the professions that are strictly the best, that would be leatherworking (by a reasonable margin) and jewelcrafting (by an inch). Blacksmithing is and will continue to be competitive with all other crafting professions. The only exception is engineering which provides the least raid dps benefit.

Belt buckle is not blacksmithing-specific. Leatherworking craftable items are not BoP and thus are not a consideration either. Mining is literally the only non-secondary profession in the game that provides absolutely zero dps benefit, so you would be well-served to replace it with something else. Alchemy is typically the quickest and least expensive profession to level and will provide you with the added benefit of double flask duration, but you can't really go wrong with any other crafting profession either.

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