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Old 01/08/11, 2:31 PM   #256
Vonriel
Glass Joe
 
Human Paladin
 
Cenarion Circle
Does anyone have the damage formulas for the various poisons? The only place I could find anything was wowwiki, and besides the fact that I tend to be skeptical of information found on wikis in general, some of the pages looked like they haven't been updated since some time in Wrath.

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Old 01/08/11, 9:38 PM   #257
Syncness
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Caelestrasz
Originally Posted by Vonriel View Post
Does anyone have the damage formulas for the various poisons? The only place I could find anything was wowwiki, and besides the fact that I tend to be skeptical of information found on wikis in general, some of the pages looked like they haven't been updated since some time in Wrath.
I was looking for this as well, Wowhead doesn't seem to show it, and Wowwiki just looks out-dated, but here's the info from Wowwiki.

Deadly Poison: 14% of AP + <damage>
Instant Poison: 9% of AP + <damage>

Just for the record, this is a very good macro (to apply poisons)
#showtooltip
/use Deadly Poison
/use [button:1] 16; [button:2] 17 
/click StaticPopup1Button1
Left click to apply to mainhand, right click for offhand, you can add [button:3] for middle mouse for thrown.

[e] fixed DP/IP AP % value. Wowwiki is indeed outdated.

Last edited by Syncness : 01/08/11 at 11:21 PM.

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Old 01/08/11, 9:47 PM   #258
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
ShadowCraft is currently using the following values:

DP: 540 + .14 * AP
IP: 352 + .09 * AP
WP: 276 + .04 * AP

This comes from tests performed at various times during the beta; however, it might be worth verifying that these are still correct on live.

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Old 01/10/11, 5:22 AM   #259
mx42
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Kil'Jaeden
Evening gents,

I have heard rumors of the Tol Barad Trinket [Unsolvable Riddle] being buffed in the near future. Has anyone been able to confirm/deny this? I did some searching on other sites and wasn't able to come up with anything.

I was initially hoarding up my Commendations for use on the epic flying mount, as the other item rewards from there go pretty poorly for my build/spec; if the trinket will indeed become a better version, I will buy that instead.

Would appreciate a reply from anybody who knows what's going on (as I have heard in guild raids that some Strength trinkets will be buffed as well)

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Old 01/10/11, 6:18 AM   #260
Shougeki
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Zenedar (EU)
Originally Posted by ShadowStrk View Post
Just for the record, this is a very good macro (to apply poisons)
#showtooltip
/use Deadly Poison
/use [button:1] 16; [button:2] 17 
/click StaticPopup1Button1
Left click to apply to mainhand, right click for offhand, you can add [button:3] for middle mouse for thrown.
There is an addon, Poisoner - Addons - Curse that does the same thing, but pops out a little menu with all your poisons on it, so if you are keeping different ones for what ever reason, you dont have to keep changing the macro.

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Old 01/10/11, 8:49 AM   #261
Onodrim
Piston Honda
 
Human Rogue
 
Aggramar (EU)
Originally Posted by mx42 View Post
I have heard rumors of the Tol Barad Trinket [Unsolvable Riddle] being buffed in the near future. Has anyone been able to confirm/deny this?
I cannot confirm whether or not the trinket in and of itself will be buffed. I haven't heard of any such change myself, though. What you may be referring to is that this trinket becomes more desirable for Combat rogues with the 4.06 re-work of Main Gauche. This'll increase the competitiveness of Mastery Rating as a stat, albeit not so much as for Mastery Rating to surpass Haste or Hit until the spell hit cap in terms of EP value - but it'll be close by.

They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

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Old 01/10/11, 3:11 PM   #262
Zerix
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
Is there any kind of concrete conversion between haste and how fast energy regens? How is this worked in to the EP values of haste?

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Old 01/11/11, 5:21 AM   #263
Azyr
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Ravenholdt (EU)
I searched as best as i could, but couldn't find a reasonable answer to this;

I use the 31/3/7 talent spec at the moment. I might change this to 31/2/8 depending on the gear i loot in the future, but i'm not sure if i should stick to the current build and reforge the exess hit to mastery, or just go for the 31/2/8.

Is there a way to calculate this using the EP's?

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Old 01/11/11, 7:37 AM   #264
Syncness
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Caelestrasz
Originally Posted by Azyr View Post
I searched as best as i could, but couldn't find a reasonable answer to this;

I use the 31/3/7 talent spec at the moment. I might change this to 31/2/8 depending on the gear i loot in the future, but i'm not sure if i should stick to the current build and reforge the exess hit to mastery, or just go for the 31/2/8.

Is there a way to calculate this using the EP's?
31/2/8 is most likely better as hit can be earned from gear, whilst Mutilate damage is talent only.

[e] to actually answer your question, 2% in rating x 1.75 (assuming you're not capped) for the EP value, as for Opportunity, I assume it's something along the lines of Mutilate/Backstab output x 10% then divided by desired boss kill time for rough DPS gain.

Last edited by Syncness : 01/11/11 at 7:49 AM.

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Old 01/11/11, 8:06 AM   #265
Azyr
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Ravenholdt (EU)
Originally Posted by ShadowStrk View Post
31/2/8 is most likely better as hit can be earned from gear, whilst Mutilate damage is talent only.

[e] to actually answer your question, 2% in rating x 1.75 (assuming you're not capped) for the EP value, as for Opportunity, I assume it's something along the lines of Mutilate/Backstab output x 10% then divided by desired boss kill time for rough DPS gain.
Thats fair, but couldn't it be better if i reforged the excess hit from the gear i have to Mastery and go 31/3/7 instead?

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Old 01/11/11, 8:30 AM   #266
Syncness
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Caelestrasz
Originally Posted by Azyr View Post
Thats fair, but couldn't it be better if i reforged the excess hit from the gear i have to Mastery and go 31/3/7 instead?
Hmm, think about it this way.

If you're gaining hit from gear, it's 1.75 EP (according to the given table, note that this value changes based on your gear),
whilst if you're reforging excess hit, you're going from 0.75EP (white hit) to 1.4EP (mastery), a gain of 0.65EP. In comparison, it would be more efficient to keep the EP from gear.

Then again, if you don't have the excess hit to begin with you're probably better off going 31/3/7 (I did this when I didn't have Fluid Death and H:KttEC).

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Old 01/11/11, 9:47 AM   #267
ieatpaperbag
Piston Honda
 
ieatpaperbag's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by Azyr View Post
I searched as best as i could, but couldn't find a reasonable answer to this;

I use the 31/3/7 talent spec at the moment. I might change this to 31/2/8 depending on the gear i loot in the future, but i'm not sure if i should stick to the current build and reforge the exess hit to mastery, or just go for the 31/2/8.

Is there a way to calculate this using the EP's?
The two specs are very close, if I recall correctly, shadowcraft will give you the EP values of various talents for your given gear (I cannot double check from here). For an estimate, Aldriana did a comparison with a set of gear and found 31/3/7 to be behind 31/2/8 by 40 DPS out of 24,000, I don't believe anything major has changed since then.
Originally Posted by ShadowStrk View Post
Hmm, think about it this way.

If you're gaining hit from gear, it's 1.75 EP (according to the given table, note that this value changes based on your gear),
whilst if you're reforging excess hit, you're going from 0.75EP (white hit) to 1.4EP (mastery), a gain of 0.65EP. In comparison, it would be more efficient to keep the EP from gear.

Then again, if you don't have the excess hit to begin with you're probably better off going 31/3/7 (I did this when I didn't have Fluid Death and H:KttEC).
This is confusing comparison though I see where you're coming from. First off, if you're gaining hit from gear it's worth 1.4 EP (I'm assuming you meant spell hit, not yellow hit) and second, mastery is worth 1.3 EP, not 1.4 EP. When reforging is done correctly, you are always increasing the efficiency of your gear because you getting as close as possible to various caps without going too far over or falling too far below and ultimately, you’re trading poorer stats for stronger ones.

Putting a point into precision frees up 204 rating to be spent on mastery at the cost of 10% Mutilate/Backstab damage if you plan to stay at spell hit cap and not too far over (which you should). The flip side is sacrificing 204 mastery for 10% Mutilate/Backstab damage because you still plan to get back to spell hit cap. The comparison should be between the value of 204 mastery and one point in Opportunity.

Last edited by ieatpaperbag : 01/11/11 at 9:55 AM.

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Old 01/11/11, 10:24 AM   #268
seikei
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Area 52
I did some quick math using my logs from omnitron. I've got blue 346 daggers and 67% increased poison damage from mastery. While my numbers might be off somewhat it seemed to be that if I had gone 31/3/7 and reforged the extra hit to mastery I could expect a gain of around 28k damage or so over 7.5 minutes. This difference diminishes as weapons improve and mastery increases.

In my opinion it doesn't seem worth the hassle.

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Old 01/11/11, 10:28 AM   #269
Syncness
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Caelestrasz
Sorry, I'm a bit brain dead, all my EP values were wrong.

How do we compare 204 mastery to 10% increase in Mutilate/Backstab; more specifically, how do we find the EP for Opportunity?

Last edited by Syncness : 01/11/11 at 10:44 AM.

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Old 01/11/11, 5:56 PM   #270
Deius
Banned
 
Undead Rogue
 
Nazgrel
Hello fellow Rogues,
I've just read the damage buffs datamined by MMO-C for Subtlety, and I'm wondering if this might bring it inline with Combat or even Mutilate? And if so would a guide for Subtlety PvE possibly be made?

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