Rogue Simple Questions Thread: Cataclysm Edition - Page 26

Heolfrig · 01/22/11, 9:55 PM

Originally Posted by contractkill

SnD in PTR:

I was wondering: if the way slice and dice is working on the PTR (effects Haste) is actually going to make it live, would this (plus the buffs to combat in 4.0.6) make combat > assassination for raiding?

Both specs would benefit from the change. The only difference between the relative speeds of SnD would be in gemming and reforging. Since Combat has a higher haste value than Assassination, they are more likely to benefit, but it should not be enough to overtake Assassination. See Aldriana's post, http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t111329-...8/#post1849250, for some further reading.

SilencerNT · 01/23/11, 4:53 AM

how the energy gain per unit of time, depending on the haste rating?
P.S. Sorry for my bad English

Zaefir · 01/23/11, 6:03 AM

Originally Posted by Crevan

I've noticed that the Deadly Scheme buff (from 4 piece t11 bonus) is consumed if your eviscerate is dodged/parried/misses. Is that the expected behaviour? I suppose it should work similarly to Cold Blood, but in the past I never paid attention to how CB works in this situation.

At first CB was wasted if the strike was dodge/blocked/parried, but it has been changed and now you keep it until your strike lands.

Vaelaris · 01/23/11, 10:14 AM

Slce and Dice still only affects melee attack speed, not haste. The only reason you see it adding to haste on the ptr is because of blizzard's change to how it represents some stats. Haste % will now show your effective haste from all buffs, not just haste rating. Your regular haste is unaffected.

Kroyfel · 01/23/11, 5:25 PM

Does the 2-piece t11 bonus affect the use of Revealing Strike at all?

Killme888 · 01/23/11, 5:32 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

Leaving rupture down for 1 second: 3.4k damage.
Using an undersized rupture: 450 damage per combo point.

What's the damage loss per sec for having SnD down? I've been trying rupture with the cp from garrote opening, but when ruthlessness doesn't proc I feel like I've wasted 1-2 more cp on SnD than I would have if I had SnD'd first. In the past SnD has always been the most important buff to get up first so I'm wondering if that's still the case or is VW more important to our damage now.

• Aldriana · 01/23/11, 6:41 PM

Originally Posted by Killme888

What's the damage loss per sec for having SnD down? I've been trying rupture with the cp from garrote opening, but when ruthlessness doesn't proc I feel like I've wasted 1-2 more cp on SnD than I would have if I had SnD'd first. In the past SnD has always been the most important buff to get up first so I'm wondering if that's still the case or is VW more important to our damage now.

Penalty for SnD being *down* for a second is about 2.9k. But the penalty for letting it *drop* is higher - as you then have to waste some combo points putting it back up as well. So in the opening seconds of the fight getting Rupture up is perhaps marginally more important, but as the fight goes on its more important to not let SnD drop at all than to prevent all rupture gaps.

chesiremonkey · 01/24/11, 1:53 AM

I've been looking all over for the new stats on this chest with the patch. Has anyone found this out yet?

sp00n · 01/24/11, 3:31 AM

The thing is, there aren't any new stats, it currently has the very same as on live.
I don't know if this is an oversight or on purpose, this one and the mail counterpart haven't been changed. The other pieces (int gear) have, this is an example:

Old:
[Twilight Scale Chestguard]

New:
512 Stamina
321 Int
214 Crit
216 Haste
1 Red Socket
10 Haste Socket Bonus

Twilight Scale Chestguard PTR

Sakuru · 01/24/11, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

Penalty for SnD being *down* for a second is about 2.9k. But the penalty for letting it *drop* is higher - as you then have to waste some combo points putting it back up as well. So in the opening seconds of the fight getting Rupture up is perhaps marginally more important, but as the fight goes on its more important to not let SnD drop at all than to prevent all rupture gaps.

Is this number based on the assumption that you have 5 stacks of DP on your target?
I usually do a mutilate straight after I open from garrote, to get a 3-4 CP rupture rolling, then i get CP's to get off snd.

In that timeframe I usually dont have 5 stacks of DP, which means no IP procs from my oh, and thus making snd a little less important?

• Aldriana · 01/24/11, 12:08 PM

While its true that you won't be getting IP procs from your OH, that doesn't make them any less important - the quicker you get stacked up to 5, the quicker you start getting those IP procs, so the net DPS effect is the same. Hence that number applies regardless of whether you're still letting stuff stack up or not.

Soulvex · 01/24/11, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by chesiremonkey

I've been looking all over for the new stats on this chest with the patch. Has anyone found this out yet?

As far as I know, they are just receiving sockets + bonuses and the actual stats are remaining the same.

Glanzick · 01/24/11, 2:43 PM

I have a question regarding the way EP values are calculated/given for assassination stats (especially expertise). I, like probably the majority of rogues, are using the BiS EP values calculated by ShadowCraft for current reforging/gemming. This is great, but like some people I worry about my own specific EP values, especially since my mastery is getting so much higher than my haste.

I've used both the ShadowCraft web frontend and the latest version of SimulationCraft and obtained the following EPs for myself (SimC is normalized to 1 AP):

Stat	ShadowCraft	SimC
Agi	2.57	2.52
Spell Hit	1.30	1.58
Mastery	1.16	1.17
Haste	1.10	1.12
Exp	0.97	1.12
Crit	0.83	0.87

It seems that there is pretty good agreement except for the stats that cause you to miss/hit. I'm just wondering if anyone knows why SimC would value expertise so much higher. I'm not reforging to haste right now anyways, but I might in the future. I also ran SimC for the BiS gear to see if the values were similar:

Stat	ShadowCraft	SimC
Agi	2.61	2.59
Spell Hit	1.42	1.64
Mastery	1.28	1.31
Haste	1.19	1.19
Exp	1.09	1.26
Crit	0.92	0.94

Again good agreement for everything except the capped hits. I'm aware that SimC calculates scaling factors by lowering expertise and hit instead of raising them, could that be the source of difference? Should I just disregard SimC's results?

• Aldriana · 01/24/11, 3:00 PM

I have two answers to that question.

1) I personally don't have a lot of confidence in SimCraft. The last set of numbers I saw before Cata launched from SimCraft were *wildly* wrong. It had all 3 rogue specs as the bottom 3 rogue DPS specs, down around 16k in BIS. Obviously this is incorrect. Now, admittedly, they've improved it - its now reporting numbers more similar to what we're seeing and/or what other tools predict, but I don't have a lot of confidence that they've chased out *all* the issues given the magnitude of the error they started with.

That said, ShadowCraft is fairly immature as a modeling technique as well, so probably contains errors as well. Which is more accurate? Well, I have more confidence in my own work, but that may not be true of the rest of you, and its probably worth investigating where the differences lie.

2) Unfortunately, these numbers, by themselves, don't actually help that much in terms of diagnosing where the differences lie. It'd be very useful to compare White and Yellow hit numbers as well; I just don't know if SimCraft is capable of generating those as well. The fact that Spell Hit is significantly different implies its not just a cycle-disruption difference, as spell hit has no direct effect on your cycle (i.e., it doesn't cause you to need to reapply moves). But whether the difference is mostly white, or mostly poison miss rate, or whatever is pretty unclear without having the other information to dig down into where the differences lie.

Rerox · 01/24/11, 5:31 PM

Originally Posted by Soulvex

As far as I know, they are just receiving sockets + bonuses and the actual stats are remaining the same.

No, the crafting items all get a socket with a 10 statpoints socketbonus, but lose 20 statpoints in the primary stat (agi) and 20 statpoints in a secondary stat.