The gloves and ring look decent, but at the moment, napkin math using the 4.2 EP values Shadowcraft gives me for my rogue (or using the EP values for T12 combat that nextormento has in the 4.2 changes thread) put the trinket behind Tia's Grace. This is neglecting the meteor proc, but essentially, Ricket's is giving you an average of 283 crit, while Tia's Grace gives you a constant 285 mastery, with equal amounts of agility.

I completely understand your idea here. But from what i observe the situations where pool energy for envenom without the envenom buff already running are not rare. They happen for every time you start a fight, switch to a new trash target, or adds in a boss fight. Even for a single boss in raid, various mechanisms inevitably cause the envenom buff to fall off your target. So, when you finish dodging the fire, or whatever AOE that the bosses are casting, and get back on the boss, you will loss the previous envenom buff. What is more troublesome is when you have to switch target temporarily, for example the second last boss fight in heroic Grim Batol. You redirect your CPs on the boss to the fire elemental, kill it, and end up getting back to the boss with no CP, no redirect CP(on cd), and no envenom buff on the boss. Your Snd will most likely still be up due to finisher on add, but your rupture on the boss is off. In these situations, what is the correct thing to do? Should I try to do one mutilate, use it to apply rupture, then do two more mutilate, then pool energy until i can do envenom + one mutilate in one go, all without envenom buff already up? Or should I envenom as soon as I have enough energy after the two mutilate? I may have to wait for 2 more sec before i can apply the next mutilate, but at least the envenom buff is up and running

I have come across situations where I have 2-3 sec remaining on rupture, and I have 4-5 CP with high energy lvl. In this case, would it be better to apply envenom and follow by a mutilate right away, then use the mutilate CP to do rupture? Or should i just use the 4-5 CP to do rupture? My rationale is since rupture’s direct ticking damage is minimal, might as well use the 4-5 CP to do an envenom (even if i’m clipping existing envenom buff), since the direct nature dmg of envenom hit hard. This way I often catch the rupture debuff right on the spot(apply right on the moment when it falls off), but sometimes i inevitably miss the rupture uptime by 1 or 2 sec, especially when the envenom or mutilate miss/dodged and i have to apply again.
On another similar situation where I have 2-3 sec remaining on rupture and 4-5 CP, but with low energy lvl, I understand that even if I try to envenom, but due to lack of energy after that, I can’t mutilate up a new rupture right away. This causes more severe gap in rupture uptime( up to 3 sec), so in this case I would generally put the 4-5 CP right away into a new rupture. Is this the correct treatment?
Another note on rupture: the current treatment is to use whatever CP that you have to put up a new rupture by the time the old one is falling off right? As a result of this I usually prefer to keep rupture at an undersized lvl, maybe 1-2 CP rupture. This is because a 4-5 rupture cannot be overwrote by an undersized rupture. So when you have situation where your 4-5 CP rupture is falling off but you only have like 1-2 CP, it is a bit lame to wait until the 4-5 CP rupture to totally fall off so that you could apply an undersized one. Or you could try to mutilate to get up to 4-5 CP, but this takes time and your old rupture may fall off for a while already. This is also one of the reasons why I would rather use 4-5 CP into an overlapping envenom right before the rupture drop, and reapply an undersized rupture, as i mentioned above.

Rupture Versus Envenom is highly situational, and is dependent on a few factors, such as your currently energy level, amount of cp's used on previous rupture, current amount of cp's, amount of time left on current rupture and if you have an active envenom buff.

If you find yourself in the situation where you have 2-3 seconds left on a 4-5 cp rupture, and is at relatively high energy, dependent on how many cp's you're sitting at, lets, just as an example, say you have 4, and you have 3 seconds remaining on your current envenom buff. If waiting out the envenom buff will make you cap out on energy, you should then clip your envenom, as caping on energy is a higher dps loss than clipping an envenom. Then just mutilate once for 2-4 cp's and apply rupture with that. If you lose 1 second up-time on your rupture due to a GCD or whatnot, it's a better alternative than sitting capped out on energy for the two last seconds of your rupture.

In the case where you are low on energy, pooling to your rupture runs out would be the way to go, losing substantial time on rupture up-time is sub par to get one extra envenom squeezed in,and then spend 2-3 second waiting for energy to come in to do another mutilate, and then wait for energy to get rupture up and running again.
At current times I've experienced, especially at a start of an encounter, where you have garrote, rupture and overkill up,
a massive energy income, so the need for envenom clipping is rather heavy.

In the situation where you have a 4 or 5 cp rupture running, and you sit on 3 or 4 cp's, and is about to cap on energy, but you cant refresh your rupture due to a stronger one being active. Just envenom if you are at 4, or mutilate if you are at 3, as you are so high on energy that getting enough cp's to do another rupture should not be an issue. And it goes without saying that if you are low on energy, just pool. Bottom line is clipping an envenom is a better option then caping on energy.


As of our Nefarian hc kill last evening, I did not experience any issues regarding redirects. Your experience might have been a bug?

I usually dump my CP on the boss and then redirect back from the add to the boss when the add dies. Correct me if I'm wrong (I am Sub and haven't played as Mut spec much) but as I understand it you can't Envenom until the add is poisoned anyway, so it seems to make sense to me that opening with CP isn't *that* essential. Dumping your CP into Rupture on the boss means you'll still be getting energy, so you can open with Mut -> Envenom on the add with little penalty*. Redirect back to the boss at the end allows you to immediately Envenom since your Deadly Poison stacks should still be running if the add died fast.

As Sub the switch back to the boss is re-starting Rupture if it's dropped, or Evis to keep it rolling if it hasn't. Both must be 5 CP because of Sub mechanics, so having redirect up takes a lot of the pressure off. I'm not sure if that's the *best* way to do it, but it seems to work for me.

*Yes I know re-stacking Deadly Poison is a penalty, but there's not much you can do about it.

To clarify, what I meant was that you pool energy to your rupture is about to fall of, then you reapply rupture with whatever combopoints you have available, then continue your regular rotation.

There is a long in-depth of rupture mechanics on the assassination section of the forum, starting around here and going over the next few pages.

Questions about H Omnotron. We're having a go at this fight tonight and I wondered what rogue abilities might trigger Static Shock (especially from Electron). I gather normal melee attacks (leaving poisons aside) don't trigger it but what about:

(1) Ruptures still on target when the shield is at 50 or less
(2) Venomous Wounds procs
(3) Deadly poison ticks
(4) IP applications (if you stay auto-attacking - assume this triggers for sure?)

If any of these do trigger it I guess i'd go Combat and double wound with no bleeds. Can anyone clarify this for me please?

Also - if you cloak Magmatron's stun/acquiring target ability does he still fire his flamethrower at you (in which case is there really a point in cloaking the stun since you won't want to run around with the flames targetted on you pwn'ing your own raid - probably best to stay put so people can avoid you)?

Any direct damage triggers static shock, that includes auto-attacks. I'm a bit confused as to why you'd need to go combat with double wound, so you don't have to switch targets?

All you really need to do is to stop attacking when DBM or whichever mod you use tells you to, normal melee attacks will trigger it, and if you are on Arcanotron for interrupts, use a /stopattackmacro on your kick.

The reason I am asking is because it has almost certainly been established that certain abilities can trigger static shock even after a person has stopped attacking Electron. For example shaman lightning shields, magma totems and possible Volcanic Tsunami procs. See discussion here: What triggers Electron's Static Shock? - Forums - World of Warcraft. Note that this post also theorises (but does not emphatically confirm) that normal melee attacks do not cause static shock - though I really question that.

So I wanted to be sure that (for example) Venomous Wounds procs and poison ticks did not cause the static shock effect - if they did it would be a big problem because even if you stop attacks at the 50 energy mark you might trigger the effect inadvertently. So, if poison ticks from deadly triggered the effect I would have gone double wound so as to have no poison DoT on.

Having wiped on this last night quite a lot I can confirm that so long as the effects are applied before the shield comes up our poisons, ruptures and VW procs do not trigger the static shock effect.

I handle the Storm Shield solo in our 10m, and let me tell you that it's pretty much the most stressful thing I've had to worry about this content patch. I'm assassination for this (I think combat would give you trouble with poor tornado spawns + KS?). You should vendetta a few seconds after the fight starts, then vendetta on CD, make sure SnD/rupture is going to stay up for stormshield, get 5cp, cap on energy prior to stormshield, feint just before it so you aren't on the global when it comes up, then envenom -> mut -> mut -> cb envenom -> pray that was enough - it usually is. You won't have CB up for the next one, so consider using vanish prior to the shield. Good luck with that one.