Rogue Simple Questions Thread: Cataclysm Edition - Page 73

야수(yasu) · 02/21/12, 7:17 AM

Question about talents for combat.
some of the users of Inven Rogue Forum(Korean wow community site) suggest that becasue of the set effect of legendary dagger will increase total damage of Eviscerate, giving 3 points for [Coup De Grace] and two points for [Lethality] when you equip legendary daggers for combat will bring slight increase of dps.

Well it seems quite acceptable to me. But I want to know how other people also think.

Rosvall · 02/22/12, 3:29 AM

Originally Posted by 야수(yasu)

Question about talents for combat.
some of the users of Inven Rogue Forum(Korean wow community site) suggest that becasue of the set effect of legendary dagger will increase total damage of Eviscerate, giving 3 points for [Coup De Grace] and two points for [Lethality] when you equip legendary daggers for combat will bring slight increase of dps.

Well it seems quite acceptable to me. But I want to know how other people also think.

As it is now, if you run a ruptureless cycle, doing what you suggest is sometimes better (without legendary daggers) and sometimes equal.

Given legendary daggers you will be doing less Sinister strikes (Due to how the proc works) and more eviscerates. Thus increasing the value of Coup De Grace and reducing the value of Lethality.

PikaPika1006 · 02/24/12, 9:17 AM

Originally Posted by Sarvius

There's no such thing as kick-immune. If casting kick had some potential effect like proccing a poison, it would always have that effect. Bosses can be immune to the other effects of kick (interrupt or talented silence), but no boss is entirely immune to an ability.

Edit: By the way, kick still procs your mh poison. Turned sideways and it took 3 kicks before I got a proc. Combat log showed only instant poison.

This made me a bit curious, so I did some testing. On the raid level dummy, which is immune to kick, I got zero wound poison procs from a 2.8 weapon (100% proc). Whereas on the level 60 dummy, which is not immune to kick, I got a wound poison proc for every kick.

Naihan · 02/24/12, 11:02 AM

Can anyone provide a precise definition of "kick immune" and what it has to do with the issue pika brought up? As someone previously stated, I've never heard of a boss being "immune" proper to kick.

13a5ti · 02/24/12, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Naihan

Can anyone provide a precise definition of "kick immune" and what it has to do with the issue pika brought up? As someone previously stated, I've never heard of a boss being "immune" proper to kick.

If a target is kick immune, it means that kick does nothing.

← Click Here

If a target is not kick immune, kick can procc poisons and interrupt the target. You can use kick as a free energy dump while AR or Bloodlust for example.

← Click Here

I will try to test every mob in Dragon Soul whether it is kick immune or not.

Sarvius · 02/24/12, 2:37 PM

I'll go ahead and eat my hat. I've never seen that combat log event, and I'd assume it was created for roughly this reason. I tested, arbitrarily, on a non-boss target dummy. Seems rather contrived for blizzard to do something like this, but there you have it. My experience was with mages who had long claimed that CS didn't work on bosses because they got immune messages, and I had often to explain that it was because of the imp cs silence that used to be common in raid specs. Guess it's changed.

corveroth · 02/25/12, 5:30 AM

I've been looking for, but can't find, a source for the value on spell crit suppression. According to the Combat thread, it stands at 2.1%, whereas I'd previously assumed it was the same as the 4.8% value we found for melee. Can anyone point me to some testing or other reputable source?

• Aldriana · 02/25/12, 11:56 AM

Cataclysm Mechanics Testing and following dozen posts or so have the most recent testing of the mechanic.

Justarogue · 02/28/12, 6:27 AM

I remember a while back, here and on other WoW related forums, when someone asked if the normal mode No'Kaled axe was better than the second stage legendaries (The Sleeper), there was never a concrete answer. Is one better than the other, or are they still close in damage?

Shadire · 02/28/12, 7:07 AM

I think this was concluded and current modelling in Shadowcraft is correct. According to this No'kaled is ~400 single target dps above Sleeper. Although there was a discussion that for extensive periods of Blade Flurry switching to Sleeper should be dps increase over No'kaled (due to proc not affecting BF while weapon stats, agi stacking buff and more main gauche procs from faster weapon all affect BF).

Zhall · 02/28/12, 10:49 AM

Is it effective to switch to Sleeper while Blade Flurry is up and to switch back to No'kaled if u are doing single target dps?
I think it wont be, because of an icd of the No'kaled proc. Is there even an icd?

sarvic · 03/03/12, 4:27 AM

Is there a particular time in my rotation when it is optimal to use my tricks? Such as during certain combo points or whatever?
This is for combat spec, btw.
Thanks!

Nimsraedian · 03/05/12, 4:22 PM

I've got a question about wich spec is the right one to use for maximum dps.
I've been told that combat is the best way to go in DS. But lately i've been wondering if that's the correct spec.
I'm currently attempting the first HC kills in DS and have no idea tbh if combat is the best spec for it.
I have the second stage of daggers plus full 397 gear if that helps in any way.

Shadire · 03/06/12, 4:33 AM

Here is listing of best specs for every given encounter on hc mode:

1) Morchok - subtlety (you can cloak every black blood and keep dpsing 100% of time)
2) Yor'sajh - I'd say combat due to cleaves for mana void and adds (FoK is just too weak even as assassination)
3) Zon'ozz - combat for cleaves followed by assassination due to insane dmg sub 35%
4) Hagara - subtlety due to highest burst and mobility
5) Ultraxion - combat by far due to inability for backtabbing and ambushing for other specs
6) Blackhorn - combat by far due to cleaves
7) Spine - subtlety if you need burst on tendons, combat if you need sustained dmg on amalgamations and blood control
8) Madness - assassination followed by combat (both are very good, depending on your tactics)

Overall combat can be considered top spec as it provides either highest or very competitive dps on every single encounter while having no weak points.

sean13128 · 03/06/12, 7:42 AM

Originally Posted by Shadire

Here is listing of best specs for every given encounter on hc mode:

1) Morchok - subtlety (you can cloak every black blood and keep dpsing 100% of time)
2) Yor'sajh - I'd say combat due to cleaves for mana void and adds (FoK is just too weak even as assassination)
3) Zon'ozz - combat for cleaves followed by assassination due to insane dmg sub 35%
4) Hagara - subtlety due to highest burst and mobility
5) Ultraxion - combat by far due to inability for backtabbing and ambushing for other specs
6) Blackhorn - combat by far due to cleaves
7) Spine - subtlety if you need burst on tendons, combat if you need sustained dmg on amalgamations and blood control
8) Madness - assassination followed by combat (both are very good, depending on your tactics)

Overall combat can be considered top spec as it provides either highest or very competitive dps on every single encounter while having no weak points.

If you look over WOL on ultraxion, The hemo specialized sub specs are really close to combat.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Talents & Glyphs - Game Guide - World of Warcraft

this guy gave it a go and landed 52k, if your hold up for this fight is healing, the point could be made that pulling the point out of imp ambush, Init, and find weekness to go 3/3 env shadows.