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Old 03/14/12, 9:07 PM   #1111
piou
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Al'Akir (EU)
So to continue our previous talk;

Switching main hand DOES NOT remove the legendary buff (SotD) -i just checked, but it does trigger 2 GCDs (1 to equip No'K MH and 1 more to requip Golad). So would it be a DPS gain to do that for KS? I doubt it but still had to ask!

PS: I tried ruptureless combat tonight (despite that we had feral druid). Although I kept the usual spec (2/3 CdG, 3/3 Lethality) it seemed much more fluent and consistent than with rupture in rotation...

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Old 03/15/12, 10:42 AM   #1112
Boarson
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Kael'thas (EU)
@Piou #2

i would no say "on CD" with 2P-T13 , for the usage of TotT.

As often as possible, but not in high energy or high regen situations. Especialy avoid to clip TotT and Adrerush.
I'm ok to delay a little while the usage of TotT using that sort of considerations.

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Old 03/15/12, 12:15 PM   #1113
Crevan
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
As often as possible, but not in high energy or high regen situations.
Actually, you should ideally get Tricks of Time at mid-to-high energy. The reason for this is that to use the buff to its full potential, you need to have enough energy to perform an energy-using move for every GCD the buff is active. If your energy bar is empty and you're not getting any lucky CP procs, you'll waste most of the energy reduction.

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Old 03/15/12, 12:47 PM   #1114
sp00n
Bald Bull
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Originally Posted by Crevan View Post
Actually, you should ideally get Tricks of Time at mid-to-high energy. The reason for this is that to use the buff to its full potential, you need to have enough energy to perform an energy-using move for every GCD the buff is active. If your energy bar is empty and you're not getting any lucky CP procs, you'll waste most of the energy reduction.
On the other hand, the personal gain* of TotT will be wasted if you cannot spend all that extra energy (reduced energy costs basically translates into extra energy) because you are already generating enough energy to fill every GCD. In said case it is truly better (for you) to wait until your regeneration rate decreases.
You are right however that you shouldn't cast TotT if your energy bar is depleted, as it won't help you in performing your first ability. You still have to wait for your normal energy regeneration for this.


* The DPS increase for your target still exists of course.

Stopped Playing

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Old 03/15/12, 4:19 PM   #1115
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
Just a conflict of terms. You don't want to use TotT during high energy regen (spoon's point) but you do want to use it at mid-to-high energy (crevan's). Realistically that just means you shouldn't use it during adrenaline rush - which is obvious - but the benefit to your target is also pretty dramatically increased during bloodlust so it's still worth using unless you are absolutely capped out and can't get lower.

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Old 03/16/12, 6:06 AM   #1116
shixxor
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Anub'arak (EU)
Hi there!

I've only played mutilate rogue in PVE since forever, but yesterday I switched to combat since it always seems that combat rogues do more damage. So I've "learned" the rotation and read the combat rogue thread in here, but I still have a few short questions:

1) When is it useful to have Blade Flurry active? From 2 targets upwards?

2) Should I always keep rupture up, no matter how many points like mutilate rogues or is it more profitable to sometimes let it run off and build up a 5cp rupture?

3) When I have 3cp and do a SS and get to 5cp without being able to revealing strike @ 4cp ... should I then use a finisher or rather do another revealing strike beforehand although I'm already cp capped?

Thank you in advance for your pro tips

Best regards,
Shixxor

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Old 03/16/12, 6:39 AM   #1117
Shadire
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Chamber of Aspects (EU)
1) Definitely 2 targets within melee or more you should BF. Also if targets are farther away you should try staying at max hitbox range to get them both. Cleave is you major dps booster for many a DS fight and awesome trash cleaner.

2) You should keep rupture up but only if (1) You have bleed debuff present on target (2) Rupture is going to run its full duration on target. Many rogues go eviscerate only for simplicity, due to lack of debuff or because specing evisc (3/3 Coup de Grace talent) is generaly much better considering targets swapping.

3) At 5 cps you always do finisher. Hitting any cp builder would be always dps loss.

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Old 03/16/12, 6:46 AM   #1118
Boarson
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Rogue
 
Kael'thas (EU)
for 2) , il would also add : do not use rupture while using BF

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Old 03/16/12, 8:23 AM   #1119
KingZer0
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Sen'jin (EU)
According to Shadowcraft, the LFR version of No'Kaled and the spinewing dagger from Hagara,
outperforms stage 1 of the legendary daggers.
Furthermore, the normal version of No'Kaled and the heroic version of the spinewing dagger even
beats stage 2, by a margin, significant enough to be considered.

I find it hard to believe, that this is true. Is there a possibility, that the legendarys or the set bonus
isn`t simulated correctly?
I get lots of questioning why i don`t use stage 1 of the legendarys instead of LFR No'Kaled and the spinewing dagger.

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Old 03/16/12, 9:11 AM   #1120
Shadire
Von Kaiser
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Chamber of Aspects (EU)
Taking into account all the weapons you mentioned, priority is:
MH: stage 1 dagger < LFR No'Kaled = stage 2 dagger < normal No'Kaled
OH: LFR Hagara < normal Hagara < stage 1 dagger < hc Hagara = stage 2 dagger

"=" means that weapons are not so far from each other and you need to check for specific gear sets to be sure

The reason why No'Kaled is so good and beats pre-legendary daggers is related to its powerful proc and to its slow speed that is favoured by combat.

Last edited by Shadire : 03/16/12 at 9:16 AM.

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Old 03/16/12, 12:47 PM   #1121
PikaPika1006
Von Kaiser
 
PikaPika1006's Avatar
 
Pandaren Rogue
 
Illidan
Daggers are slightly worse than ilvl equivalent weapons, Nokaled is slightly better than ilvl equivalents. Unless you're cleaving for a majority of the fight Nokaled wins.

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Old 03/16/12, 4:52 PM   #1122
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
Originally Posted by shixxor View Post
2) Should I always keep rupture up, no matter how many points like mutilate rogues or is it more profitable to sometimes let it run off and build up a 5cp rupture?
No one answered your question, so here it is. As combat you never ever perform a damaging finisher under 5 cps. When you have 5 cps you check if rupture is about to fall of, and if not you eviscerate. If it happens that you eviscerate and then you have to refresh your SnD with your next cps, it's not an issue. Rupture just does slightly more damage than evis, so you use it whenever you have the option to.

The reason that mutilate runs 4+ envenom and 1+ rupture is because it's not the abilities themselves that provide the majority of the benefit but their secondary effects (envenom buff and venomous wounds). So you run 4+ envenom because if you hit 4 cps, you would lose more dps by hitting mutilate and wasting 1-2 cps than you would by simply deducting 1 second from the envenom buff duration and having your envenom hit slightly softer. With rupture it makes almost no difference how much damage the ticks themselves do, you just want to maximize the number of venomous wounds procs that you can, so you refresh with whatever cps you have when it wears off.

Combat, on the other hand, has no secondary benefit to finishers (apart from restless blades, which scales directly with number of cps anyways). It's just an energy-efficient source of damage. And, as you never have to waste combo points because of Revealing Strike being used at 4 cps, you should never really have a reason to use a damaging finisher at 4.

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Old 03/17/12, 4:17 AM   #1123
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
All three versions blade of the unmaker and electrowing dagger are included in shadowcraft, so I'm not sure exactly what you mean. If you're having difficulty finding a particular weapon, type its name into the filter when you open the list. The order is based on current calculated EP values but should absolutely not be trusted as an accurate ranking; things like being spell hit or expertise capped will dramatically lower the value of items in the list when they shouldn't be. Equip different setups and auto-reforge them in order to get an actual comparison.

Normal blade of the unmaker is better than fear, which is better than LFR blade of the unmaker. Vengeance is the superior offhand in any situation in which you have fear equipped. If you don't have fear equipped, it's still better than anything except heroic electrowing.

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Old 03/21/12, 7:56 AM   #1124
Iroared
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Monk
 
Черный Шрам (EU)
Normal blade of the unmaker is better than fear, which is better than LFR blade of the unmaker. Vengeance is the superior offhand in any situation in which you have fear equipped. If you don't have fear equipped, it's still better than anything except heroic electrowing.
Shadowcraft has been showing the Sleeper to be superior to heroic blade of unmaker for me, though - probably due to the higher agility stack.


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Old 03/27/12, 11:32 AM   #1125
F0xx
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Arthas (EU)
my assuptions from dummy testing:
1. i use KS on cd except when im under AR or tricks buff, to not cap energy
2. i use AR on cd
3. AR has 23 sec duration
4. in normal rotation it takes about 1:10 for AR to come off cd
5. in normal rotation it takes about 1:00 for KS to come off cd
6. with AR in rotation it takes about 0:45 for KS to come off cd

At some point i run in a situation where my KS will come off cd during AR.

my question is, is it worth delaying AR for up to X sec to get the KS off before the AR?
Or is it worth to KS during AR for the cd reduce you get on the KS from AR?

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