Combat Guide for Cata [12/01/2011] - Page 41

• sp00n · 02/08/12, 10:02 AM

"Things I'd like to see as well"

The best you could do would be something along this and count the abilities manually.

sourcename="Playername" AND (
( spell IN ("Shallow Insight", "Moderate Insight", "Deep Insight", "Slice and Dice", "Rupture") AND fulltype IN (SPELL_AURA_APPLIED, SPELL_AURA_REMOVED) ) OR
( spell IN ("Sinister Strike", "Revealing Strike", "Eviscerate") AND fulltype=SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS )
)

Some random ranked WoL parse:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I would love to see more possibilities for the WoL expression engine, something like "BETWEEN this and that", but unfortunately that's not possible (yet?).

Haileaus · 02/08/12, 1:28 PM

Instead of purely on CD, would it actually be better to use KS just before you use your next finisher, as then you would have a greater chance of gaining a new level of insight before you use a finisher that will result in wasted time?

Kballa · 02/08/12, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by sp00n

"Things I'd like to see as well"

The best you could do would be something along this and count the abilities manually.

sourcename="Playername" AND (
( spell IN ("Shallow Insight", "Moderate Insight", "Deep Insight", "Slice and Dice", "Rupture") AND fulltype IN (SPELL_AURA_APPLIED, SPELL_AURA_REMOVED) ) OR
( spell IN ("Sinister Strike", "Revealing Strike", "Eviscerate") AND fulltype=SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS )
)

Some random ranked WoL parse:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I would love to see more possibilities for the WoL expression engine, something like "BETWEEN this and that", but unfortunately that's not possible (yet?).

Thank you so much, this gives me somewhere to start. Previously I was going through the log browser and trying to find all the right filters and counting through everything. I'm going to post something on the rogue forums on wow to consider adding combo point addition into combat logs.

Omanko · 02/08/12, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by Haileaus

Instead of purely on CD, would it actually be better to use it just before you use your next finisher, as then you would have a greater chance of gaining a new level of insight before you use a finisher that will result in wasted time?

Speaking of which, is there some kind of addon that displays Insight as stacks? I'd very much love a way to know how many SSs I've done or rather how many more it takes for the next level. Why Blizz hasn't done it like that from the start is beyond me...

Maleficius · 02/08/12, 5:48 PM

Originally Posted by Omanko

Speaking of which, is there some kind of addon that displays Insight as stacks? I'd very much love a way to know how many SSs I've done or rather how many more it takes for the next level. Why Blizz hasn't done it like that from the start is beyond me...

The closest thing that I know of is called bandits guile helper (Bandits Guile Helper - Rogue - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse). It is a movable icon that shows: current insight in terms of color (green/yellow/red), number representing what step you are currently in, a countdown until insight fade, and an estimate of time to complete a cycle (not sure how accurate this part is).

It also auto hides if you are not combat spec. I have used it for a while and it is not bad. I would not say it is great, but it does what I think you are asking. I primarily use it to see what level of insight I am currently in which is easy to tell from the color.

Naihan · 02/09/12, 2:03 PM

I use that addon, and it's great, but it doesn't hide itself based on spec for me. If I don't disable it, it shows up in the same place for all my alts as well.

jAsOs · 02/10/12, 1:42 AM

I personally use weak auras to track my bandit's guile, but it will take 3 separate auras to track different stages.

Bledoc · 02/10/12, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by jAsOs

I personally use weak auras to track my bandit's guile, but it will take 3 separate auras to track different stages.

I rolled them all into one by setting three triggers for each (Shallow Insight, Moderate Insight and Deep Insight), so you only need one aura

Omanko · 02/10/12, 3:11 PM

Tracking the different stages (shallow/moderate/deep) is easy; most addons do that off the bat. What's hard to get is something that tracks the increments WITHIN a stage, i.e. the number off SSs needed for the next one. BG Helper does it, but it's clunky and does not offer a lot of customization

Kromos · 02/11/12, 3:54 PM

After looking at some top parsing rogues on Heroic Madness I noticed that some are still using T12 2pc and No'Kaled (even on this same thread people have said that T2 daggers are better on that fight than No'Kaled), each one doing around 1.5%-2% of their total damage. It's Burning Wounds being undervaluated for combat too?

PikaPika1006 · 02/11/12, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Kromos

After looking at some top parsing rogues on Heroic Madness I noticed that some are still using T12 2pc and No'Kaled (even on this same thread people have said that T2 daggers are better on that fight than No'Kaled), each one doing around 1.5%-2% of their total damage. It's Burning Wounds being undervaluated for combat too?

Best I can figure about the t12 2pc is the burning wounds can lead to more spellweaving procs.

yanhero · 02/11/12, 4:28 PM

Heroic Madness is unique because of spellweave, any extra hits will proc it, thats why T12 2pc and Nokaled are so good on that fight.

Kromos · 02/11/12, 4:56 PM

Edit: Already answered.

Naihan · 02/12/12, 4:54 PM

Can Fan of Knives activate Blade Twisting?

Probaton · 02/13/12, 6:39 AM

Nope, like the tooltip says blade twisting only procs off melee attacks which FoK is not.

Desuka · 02/13/12, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by yanhero

Heroic Madness is unique because of spellweave, any extra hits will proc it, thats why T12 2pc and Nokaled are so good on that fight.

Has this been proven anywhere? I was talking to a Ret Paladin that killed Heroic Madness and he said that many attacks, including nearly all of his single target abilities, do not proc Spellweaving at all. He said that Blade Flurry will proc it though.

It'd be interesting to know if there's a distinction on what can proc it, and if there is, what can actually do it.

Zujamar · 02/14/12, 3:24 AM

Spellweave does not hit the target that actually caused the proc, so it is possible this paladin in question was simply mistaken due to that fact, since you would not observe any damage from it in a single-target situation. If you examine e.g. Blistering Tentacle spawns where people are only using single-target abilities, you will still see a fair amount of Spellweave damage being taken by the Arm/Wing Tentacle from people killing the tentacles.
(N.B. it is likely that e.g. all of the seal-related stuff paladins have purposely do not proc Spellweaving since the amount of "attacks" they generate is exceedingly large)

Caysa · 02/14/12, 8:47 AM

Originally Posted by Omanko

Speaking of which, is there some kind of addon that displays Insight as stacks? I'd very much love a way to know how many SSs I've done or rather how many more it takes for the next level. Why Blizz hasn't done it like that from the start is beyond me...

I use Raven(Raven - Buffs & Debuffs - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse) for everything CD/buff/debuff-related and it works great for insight aswell. Can see how I have it set to work here. It's the bar going white-->grey-->red.

Laid Back vs. Ultraxion 25 Heroic - YouTube

Maleficius · 02/14/12, 5:41 PM

I have searched through this thread and others with regard to using Backstab vice Sinister Strike as combat with some form of the legendary daggers and although there is some discussion, there was no real conclusion that I could find since the discussion occurred before everything was known about the daggers.

So my questions is are there any times where using BS with either P1/P2/P3 daggers would be better than using SS? From what I can see the benefits of SS are: Bandit's Guile builder (where BS is not) and SS gives 1.2 CP vice 1.0 with BS.

The best scenario would seem to be to use BS during red phase of BG in which case all you would be losing is the 20% extra CP generation of SS. I think then you would need to compare the damage of BS versus SS during that time and see if it was worth the CP generation loss. If anyone has done this analysis, it would be appreciated.

Crevan · 02/14/12, 6:20 PM

Sinister Strike does more damage per energy spent, interacts with BG and generates more combo points. I don't think there's anything else to discuss here.

must1ka · 02/16/12, 1:57 AM

I have lately noticed that at certain times Savage Combat seems to come off from the boss with DP still on and won't reapply for the rest of the fight. A bit beginner here, sorry if already answered. No Blood Frenzy on the boss.

Flaer02 · 02/16/12, 2:09 AM

Frost DK's provide the same debuff via Brittle Bones and two Hunter pets can bring it as well via Acid Spit and Ravage.

Khazilein · 02/17/12, 2:58 AM

Originally Posted by Crevan

Sinister Strike does more damage per energy spent, interacts with BG and generates more combo points. I don't think there's anything else to discuss here.

And during energy capped situations while deep insight is up?

Probaton · 02/17/12, 4:26 AM

BS does a whopping 3% more dmg per strike for a combat rogue. Not +3% dps, but per strike. As in; we're still completely ignoring combo point generation, energy cost, bandit's guile and everything else. Even if you were to ignore the latter two due to Deep insight and energy capping, the combo points would still make this a no-brainer.

Chult86 · 02/20/12, 12:57 PM

I tried searching but to no avail. Has there been any theorycrafting done on weapon-swapping as Combat?

Ex: Starting the fight with stage 2 daggers, buliding to 50, then swapping to Nokaled, swapping back at 8seconds left on buff, repeat/etc