Combat Guide for Cata [12/01/2011] - Page 45

blubsie · 08/20/11, 5:20 PM

i see half of the values for the trinkets are maroon - supposingly outdated . can we maybe have an update on the new values with the current new tier / gear etc ?

ninjawhite · 08/20/11, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by blubsie

i see half of the values for the trinkets are maroon - supposingly outdated . can we maybe have an update on the new values with the current new tier / gear etc ?

ShadowCraft is going to be your best bet for any piece of gear, including trinkets.

Golijov · 08/20/11, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by Xoui

hi there,

i wanna fly @alyrazor heroic and wanna ask how to maximize my dps on it. do you think reforging everythign to mastery and gemming agi only might be good? i think haste on gear wont be that good because u are capped in the air with the buff.
what do you think?

When you go up for Alysrazor, you do most of your total damage after reaching 25 stacks. This means it makes the most sense to emphasize the stats that will be worth the most at this point. Since you're gaining 75% crit rate, this bumps up the value of hit considerably, while greatly depressing the value of crit (since you'll almost certainly be over 25% base crit chance) and very slightly reducing the value of agility (though probably not enough to affect your gem choices). In this scenario the ranking of secondary stats will probably be expertise, hit, mastery, haste, crit.

Kroyfel · 08/20/11, 9:28 PM

Originally Posted by Golijov

When you go up for Alysrazor, you do most of your total damage after reaching 25 stacks. This means it makes the most sense to emphasize the stats that will be worth the most at this point. Since you're gaining 75% crit rate, this bumps up the value of hit considerably, while greatly depressing the value of crit (since you'll almost certainly be over 25% base crit chance) and very slightly reducing the value of agility (though probably not enough to affect your gem choices). In this scenario the ranking of secondary stats will probably be expertise, hit, mastery, haste, crit.

Alysrazor can't dodge or parry and neither can the adds while they are casting so the value of expertise is pretty much zero. Also, on any Recent log parse I've looked at, I haven't seen a single physical attack miss alysrazor. Only spells. Am I... missing something here?

Example:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis <-Vodka hc kill 8th august.

sp00n · 08/21/11, 4:10 AM

Originally Posted by Kroyfel

Also, on any Recent log parse I've looked at, I haven't seen a single physical attack miss alysrazor. Only spells. Am I... missing something here?.

Wow. I checked our older logs, and that change seems to have happened between the 26th and 31st of July.
The hotfix the she cannot parry and dodge any longer was applied on the 26th (source) - probably one day later on EU realms, which I'm on. Seems they disabled their avoidance completly.
Poisons (spells) seem to be unaffected by this change however, I still see a few misses here and there.

So doesn't change much for the fight I guess. You wouldn't want to reforge to hit to go around the crit cap anymore, but you'd still want to be near the spell hit cap. And the rest you're reforging to mastery anyway.

DRKS · 08/21/11, 11:50 AM

I have a Quertion regarding talents.
Recently, I Specced off ruthlessness and into Quickening to Help my raid Healers and have a bit of extra mobility. Is this a bad thing to do? Will my DPS Go down drastically? I've been using this spec recently and It doesn't seem to affect my DPs that much(I'm doing 20-25k DPS on average on 370 Ilevel), but i'm still wondering if I would do more with Ruth.

reg0ner · 08/21/11, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by DRKS

I have a Quertion regarding talents.
Recently, I Specced off ruthlessness and into Quickening to Help my raid Healers and have a bit of extra mobility. Is this a bad thing to do? Will my DPS Go down drastically? I've been using this spec recently and It doesn't seem to affect my DPs that much(I'm doing 20-25k DPS on average on 370 Ilevel), but i'm still wondering if I would do more with Ruth.

It's nice that you're thinking about the raid and it's healers but thats something like a good 800dps drop. We have plenty of other skills (like feint and cloak)to help soak up some of the dmg that you really shouldn't gimp yourself like that.
You could just play Assassination if you still feel strongly about it.

Grimwolf · 08/21/11, 1:03 PM

It's more like a 191 dps loss with a minor speed gain. At least according to Shadowcraft with Derekaese's gear. That's with also switching the boot enchant.

DRKS · 08/21/11, 2:21 PM

Originally Posted by reg0ner

It's nice that you're thinking about the raid and it's healers but thats something like a good 800dps drop. We have plenty of other skills (like feint and cloak)to help soak up some of the dmg that you really shouldn't gimp yourself like that.
You could just play Assassination if you still feel strongly about it.

I switched recently from assasintaion for raid utility, changing back is not a reasonable option. I do use Feint, cloak, evasion, Smoke bomb and anything to avoid damage, but I still want to help in any way I can, while not ruining my DPS.

Originally Posted by Grimwolf

It's more like a 191 dps loss with a minor speed gain. At least according to Shadowcraft with Derekaese's gear. That's with also switching the boot enchant.

Shadowcraft gave me different numbers each time I tried switching to Quickening, sometimes being high numbers like 700-1k DPS to low 150-200 DPS, that's why I came here to ask.

Thanks for the answers, I think I will keep Quickening for a while.

Probaton · 08/23/11, 7:21 AM

Keep in mind that healing you is going to be a tiny part of a healer's job. Even in extreme high raid dmg fights (eg, everyone in the raids gets the same amount of dmg) Quickening is only going to be a .1*.2=2% output increase to a healer. Obviously this is discounting the facts that a) tanks will be receiving waaaaay more damage than you and b) since you'll be getting less damage than most other dps due to feint a lot of the aoe heals you'll be getting will be overheal anyway.
Additionally, you seem to be insinuating that you have to choose. You could argue that decisions like these are why the invented dual spec.

Lanola-terokkar · 08/25/11, 10:54 AM

Hello, its been sometime since ive had to post here and thus a new account but...

I have a fellow combat rogue on my server Silentist on terokkar. Silentist @ Terokkar - Game - World of Warcraft

We both spent about an hour looking over her shadowcraft the other day and we noticed its now telling her to convert the hit on fluid death to crit rather then haste. This surprised me alot so i figured id check here first. Does the t12 2 and 4 set really bump crit up so much as to equal haste eventually?

Radghr · 08/25/11, 11:15 AM

Sadly the reforge tool isn't perfect (aside from rigidly getting you very close to certain values, like expertise for combat or spellhit for assassination). I would always adhere more to the statweights listed on the left side. For your friend haste is 1.62 and crit is 1.08 manually reforging Fluiddeath from crit to haste gives about a 97dps increase. Also reforging the crit rather than the hit on her legs gives about another 33 dps.

Tryptik2012 · 08/25/11, 1:06 PM

Quick question about openers. You stated that opening from stealth doesn't really do anything for combat aside from helping with positioning. I'm used to assassination so i normally think of going for garrote but without venomous wounds, wouldn't opening with an ambush be more beneficial than opening with something out of stealth? A guaranteed 2 CP as opposed to a possible 2 CP with SS seems like a benefit.

phup · 08/25/11, 2:21 PM

Originally Posted by Tryptik2012

Quick question about openers. You stated that opening from stealth doesn't really do anything for combat aside from helping with positioning. I'm used to assassination so i normally think of going for garrote but without venomous wounds, wouldn't opening with an ambush be more beneficial than opening with something out of stealth? A guaranteed 2 CP as opposed to a possible 2 CP with SS seems like a benefit.

I guess getting 1.2 combo points for 39 energy is not much worse than getting 2 for 60, even if you sometimes end up waiting an extra GCD to get SnD up. Additionally, with a SS opening, you start building insight right away, you don't have to be completely behind the boss or wait for it to be completely turned to start swinging (when cleaving isn't a concern) and I usually find maximizing my prepot uptime is easier when I'm not bothering with stealth.

All that said, I would imagine that in the grand scheme of things the difference in damage between the two openings is negligible so do whatever you are comfortable with for that particular fight.

xmod2 · 08/25/11, 4:53 PM

Originally Posted by orderofmaken

I have a question regarding the 4 set now I just picked it up also. Is it a dps loss to hold back on using tricks until such a point where your energy is low enough it won't cap in a global? I find many times as combat, even without Heroism/lust or AR I'm capping fairly frequently given all these haste trinkets and mastery/CP chain procs, to a point where its very difficult to find time to fit in spare globals without capping on energy.

I asked a similar question earlier in the thread. It used to be with the spreadsheets I could poke around and get the DPE of various moves to better calculate the dps / energy relationship.

My question, how much damage would your tricks recipient need to do in 6 seconds to make the additional 5% damage of a non-glyphed tricks worth the 15 energy? Seeing how some of that energy (when used during lust/AR) will at times be "lost" energy which would have been capped anyway, I was wondering if we will see a gear level this expac where combat will drop the tricks glyph for the extra 5%.