Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Rogues

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11/04/11, 7:37 AM   #751
Probaton
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
Originally Posted by Fae View Post
Currently I can think about three different scenarios where Deadly Poison on thrown weapon can be actually quite useful:
  1. FoK during Killing Spree.
  2. Deadly Throw. This is very situational, but it happens.
  3. Throw. Similar to previous one, but less situational and more encounter-specific.
.
It's not so much that you're wrong but that your arguments are all both highly situational and nigh inconsequential.
During KS the damage from Wound Poison will at the very least be competitive, especially considering we're talking about maybe 3 casts in an entire bossfight. Don't forget that you usually keep dps-ing the same target after KS so you won't need FoK to keep up your stacks.
Deadly Throw is even more of a maybe than FoK, there is currently NO situation in which you might have cps on a target and with no Redirect target. Furthermore, such cps can often be used to jump-start your SnD or even start a Recuperate in high damage situations.
Thrown could net you an advantage but only in a select few fights and, again, Wound will be competitive.

The last thing to keep in mind is that poisons simply aren't horrifically important to Combat Rogues. The damage output is significant, yes, but the dps advantage of 4 (if that) extra DP applications over the course of a bossfight is going to number in the .01% range.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/11, 11:47 AM   #752
Armanewb
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Executus
I've noticed you've updated the front post to say that Time is Money increases energy regen, but it does not. Especially with regards to 4.3, I have the following two screenshots of a goblin and worgen rogue in the same gear to illustrate:

http://i.imgur.com/Va0HZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZBcPz.jpg

Note that the haste number (attack speed) is different, but the energy regen number has not changed. It was accurate before, why the change?

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/11, 1:11 PM   #753
ieatpaperbag
Piston Honda
 
ieatpaperbag's Avatar
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Eonar
Originally Posted by Armanewb View Post
I've noticed you've updated the front post to say that Time is Money increases energy regen, but it does not. Especially with regards to 4.3, I have the following two screenshots of a goblin and worgen rogue in the same gear to illustrate:

http://i.imgur.com/Va0HZ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZBcPz.jpg

Note that the haste number (attack speed) is different, but the energy regen number has not changed. It was accurate before, why the change?
Based on recent posts, I was under the impression that Time is Money and Berserking were changed to affect energy regen. It appears this is not true based on your screenshots, I will confirm both myself tonight and update accordingly, thanks I apologize for the confusion.

Most rogues are unaware of the fact that when they cast killing spree, they are an eligible victim of the killing spree.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/11, 1:40 PM   #754
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Berserking was tested and found to include energy regen a few months ago. I have not heard the same for Time is Money.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/11, 1:52 PM   #755
Naihan
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Bronzebeard
Yes, it's behaving a little peculiarly. If you make a level 1 troll rogue and cast berserking, your haste goes to 20%, your attack speed increases accordingly, and your energy regen increases to 12, up from 10. However, if you make a goblin rogue, you see that its haste is +1%, and the attack speed is increased properly, but energy regen is still 10.00, whereas you'd expect to see it at 10.10. Even though both of them increase "haste," it seems as though trolls get real haste, but goblins still just get attack speed.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/09/11, 4:51 AM   #756
Pheron12
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Burning Blade
Deleted.

Last edited by Pheron12 : 11/29/11 at 9:26 PM.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/09/11, 3:19 PM   #757
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
It's an old change, but nobody really noticed. Orcs are still best with an axe when you can get one. The difference is still minor, but it's your 25 bucks so it's your decision how much you care.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/11, 11:05 PM   #758
jAsOs
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Rogue
 
Nagrand
How minor is the difference between trolls and orcs?
Taking into consideration that the torll uses Shatterskull Bonecrusher, and orcs use Gatecrasher, both Heroic.
Wouldn't the mace win out by giving more haste?

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/11, 12:40 AM   #759
Lanola-terokkar
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Terokkar
More so, as combat rogues get more and more haste on gear, wouldn't that also decrease the value of the troll racial? My thought process is that, currently in 6/7H gear 2 trinket procs. AR, tricks haste buff and numerous other raid buffs we have a hard enough time not energy capping. This is what Ive seen as an orc. I personally couldn't see being able to get the most out of the troll racial with the current haste available.

United States Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/11, 6:17 AM   #760
Probaton
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
Originally Posted by jAsOs View Post
How minor is the difference between trolls and orcs?
If you were to base your decision to play Troll on two assumptions, namely
a) that the alternative was completely bonus-free, and
b) that a +1% haste = ~+1% dps
then the dps advantage of playing a Troll would be [duration of buff/uptime*100][haste increase]. In this instance that would be [10/180*100 = 5.55%][0.2] = 1.11%.

So assuming that you are currently playing a race with zero racial advantages (which is impossible) and that the conversion from haste% to dps% is 1:1 (also ludicrous) then your boost would still only slightly top 1%.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/14/11, 11:18 AM   #761
Brotherbear
Piston Honda
 
Orc Rogue
 
Frostwolf
I did some very rough math in the SQSA thread. In BiS T12 gear, the difference for combat works out to about 180 dps on 30k.

So a little under 1/3 of a percent. And that's without accounting for the likely hood that you'll energy cap. So yes, they're the "strongest" horde race. But not by a commanding amount.

Unless the boss is a "beast", in which case you're looking at that 5% bonus...which is pretty dramatic.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/16/11, 6:33 PM   #762
MrBluto
Glass Joe
 
MrBluto's Avatar
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Hydraxis
Trick I hadn't previously noticed

Recently I've been running Subtlety/Combat (single target and cleave fights respectively, obviously). I only recently noticed that when switching between specs you do not lose your current combat points. I.E.- You can approach any fight in subtlety to build up 5 pre-fight combo points on the target, then switch to Combat and retain the 5 combo points for an immediate 5pt SnD upon pulling. Just an interesting little fact that I recently noticed.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/16/11, 11:05 PM   #763
Chult86
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by MrBluto View Post
Recently I've been running Subtlety/Combat (single target and cleave fights respectively, obviously). I only recently noticed that when switching between specs you do not lose your current combat points. I.E.- You can approach any fight in subtlety to build up 5 pre-fight combo points on the target, then switch to Combat and retain the 5 combo points for an immediate 5pt SnD upon pulling. Just an interesting little fact that I recently noticed.
This has been going on for a long, long time. I try not to advertise it too much because I'd hate to see Blizz hotfix this away. That initial SnD will carry you through your entire first set of Insights.

Rogue PoV Stream - US 1st - http://www.twitch.tv/ahdehl_bl MTWTh @ 8EST
http://www.bloodlegion.com

Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/17/11, 4:01 AM   #764
Keyur
Glass Joe
 
Keyur's Avatar
 
Human Paladin
 
Vek'nilash (EU)
Revealing Strike Confusion

Using RvS
RvS increases the effectiveness of offensive finishers by 35% (45% glyphed). RvS should only be used when you have 4 combo points and are about to do a Rupture or Evis (it has no effect on SnD). To increase the chance you enhance a Rupture or Evis, you can use RvS when you are about to SnD and have 4 combo points such that the RvS debuff is present on your target for your next Rupture or Evis. You must remember to not use RvS again if that next Rupture or Evis is 4 combo points or it will be a DPS loss. Not using RvS at all will be a 400 DPS loss and is not recommended.
Why we need to use RvS at 4 combo points? Due to Ruthlessness we many time get 2 combo points(when we at 3 combo points.)So we already got 5 combo points and if we use RvS after five combo points it waste if one combo point.

India Offline
Reply With Quote
Old 11/17/11, 4:17 AM   #765
Artoxia
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Frostwolf (EU)
You simple do not use RvS after you gained 2 CPs (from 3 to 5). Doing so will be a dps loss.

Offline
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Rogues

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Assassination Guide for Cata [12/01/2011] ieatpaperbag Rogues 886 06/27/12 5:15 AM