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Old 11/17/11, 5:30 AM   #766
Keyur
Glass Joe
 
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Human Paladin
 
Vek'nilash (EU)
I dont want to loose 1 CPs(from 3 to 5 combo points) and I always want to use finisher with RvS. Not using RvS as you said its not good solution.
Whats wrong with starting new combo point cycle with RvS? It have 15 sec buff and thats enough time for us.

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Old 11/17/11, 7:32 AM   #767
Sakuratei
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Keyur View Post
I dont want to loose 1 CPs(from 3 to 5 combo points) and I always want to use finisher with RvS. Not using RvS as you said its not good solution.
Whats wrong with starting new combo point cycle with RvS? It have 15 sec buff and thats enough time for us.
Because Sinister Strike is worth more opportune DPS as long as you can use the combo point of the glyph proc. You only use RvS at 4 combo points because if the SS glyph procs at 4 combo points, it is completely wasted.

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Old 11/17/11, 7:53 AM   #768
Ptitcitron
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Rogue
 
Sargeras (EU)
Originally Posted by Keyur View Post
I dont want to loose 1 CPs(from 3 to 5 combo points) and I always want to use finisher with RvS. Not using RvS as you said its not good solution.
Whats wrong with starting new combo point cycle with RvS? It have 15 sec buff and thats enough time for us.
By doing so You will still waste 1 combo point in 16.7% of the cases, and you can't avoid that (draw the probability tree and take into acount 2/3 ruthlessness).

To explain quickly:
You have around 16.5% probability to go directly from 3CP to 5CP => 100-16.5= 83.5% (0.835) probability to have 4CP.
Every time you will have 4 CP you will be performing a last SS. So you have 20% (0.2) probability to waste 1 CP.

That means that the probability to waste 1 CP is : 0.835*0.2 = 0.167 => 16.7%

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Old 11/18/11, 12:27 AM   #769
Chult86
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by MrBluto View Post
Recently I've been running Subtlety/Combat (single target and cleave fights respectively, obviously). I only recently noticed that when switching between specs you do not lose your current combat points. I.E.- You can approach any fight in subtlety to build up 5 pre-fight combo points on the target, then switch to Combat and retain the 5 combo points for an immediate 5pt SnD upon pulling. Just an interesting little fact that I recently noticed.
And... it's gone. Swapping specs with combo points on a target causes you to lose them.

Popping Slice and Dice with healer crits while in Sub, and then swapping to Combat right before the pull results in losing the SnD buff.

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Old 11/18/11, 12:51 AM   #770
Tekloth
Glass Joe
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Did they hotfix that last night then? Because I was still able to hold CP's after switching specs on Raggy like 10 hours ago.

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Old 11/18/11, 1:07 AM   #771
Chult86
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Illidan
This was on PTR, my fault for the confusion.

Rogue PoV Stream - US 1st - http://www.twitch.tv/ahdehl_bl MTWTh @ 8EST
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Old 11/18/11, 6:48 PM   #772
Pivotstun
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Kazzak (EU)
Holding on to CPs and keeping your SnD buff is two completely different situations. You've always been able to keep your CPs when switching specs. However, you'll always lose your SnD buff when switching spec, so that you can't abuse the mastery effect gained from Sub, when switching over to Assassination / Combat.

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Old 11/18/11, 8:43 PM   #773
Chult86
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Pivotstun View Post
Holding on to CPs and keeping your SnD buff is two completely different situations. You've always been able to keep your CPs when switching specs. However, you'll always lose your SnD buff when switching spec, so that you can't abuse the mastery effect gained from Sub, when switching over to Assassination / Combat.
You do not retain the CPs when swapping specs on PTR now.

Rogue PoV Stream - US 1st - http://www.twitch.tv/ahdehl_bl MTWTh @ 8EST
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Old 11/20/11, 3:38 PM   #774
Sneakattacks
Glass Joe
 
Troll Rogue
 
Lightning's Blade
There is a bit of discussion about this in the 4.3 changes discussion section but what is the overall feel of using the Stage 1 Legendary daggers over current 391 combat weapons. We know that blizzard has attempted to encourage it by offering the equip bonus and the discussion ended while the MhG bonus was still active. Now that its been removed will it still be worth while?

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Old 11/28/11, 3:36 AM   #775
sinnaa
Von Kaiser
 
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Goblin Rogue
 
Stormreaver
Has anyone come up with a "working" stat weights for 4.3? I am curious to see how exactly the numbers play out with the legendary daggers with mastery, etc.

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Old 11/28/11, 3:43 AM   #776
Alash
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Rogue
 
Karazhan (EU)
Originally Posted by Sneakattacks View Post
There is a bit of discussion about this in the 4.3 changes discussion section but what is the overall feel of using the Stage 1 Legendary daggers over current 391 combat weapons. We know that blizzard has attempted to encourage it by offering the equip bonus and the discussion ended while the MhG bonus was still active. Now that its been removed will it still be worth while?
I haven't heard anyone disagree with stage one daggers being superior. The weapon speed difference of 2.6/1.8 is 44,4%, which is then fully accounted for with the 45% SS/RvS bonus. I've not seen any final word on whether this indirect nerf to KS will account for more than what's gained in additional Combat Potency procs, but I'd bet the differences are marginal, and as such that the daggers come out (far) ahead of the skullcrusher and razor alternatives.

Originally Posted by sinnaa View Post
Has anyone come up with a "working" stat weights for 4.3? I am curious to see how exactly the numbers play out with the legendary daggers with mastery, etc.
I second this.

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Old 11/28/11, 4:21 AM   #777
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
We're not going to have particularly accurate stat weights until we have a good model of all the new procs, and we're not going to have a good model of all the new procs until we have a chance to fully test the proc mechanics, plus some time to figure out how to properly model some new proc behaviors that have not been seen before. As such, its going to be hard to put together accurate stat weights for a few weeks yet.

That said: for the first few weeks your gear will still be pretty similar to T12 BIS, so you can use those stat weights for initial upgrades and probably not go too far wrong. In terms of putting together a BIS list, there actually are surprisingly few slots where there's an actual decision to be made - in most slots, there's a single option that's higher ilvl than all other available options, and even when there are two options of equal ilvl, in most cases the decision is pretty clear anyway. My best guess at this point is that the only slot where BIS isn't already obvious is the second trinket slot, where its unclear as yet whether Vial of Shadows or Starcatcher Compass comes out on top.

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Old 11/28/11, 1:16 PM   #778
sinnaa
Von Kaiser
 
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Goblin Rogue
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Aldriana View Post
We're not going to have particularly accurate stat weights until we have a good model of all the new procs, and we're not going to have a good model of all the new procs until we have a chance to fully test the proc mechanics, plus some time to figure out how to properly model some new proc behaviors that have not been seen before. As such, its going to be hard to put together accurate stat weights for a few weeks yet.

That said: for the first few weeks your gear will still be pretty similar to T12 BIS, so you can use those stat weights for initial upgrades and probably not go too far wrong. In terms of putting together a BIS list, there actually are surprisingly few slots where there's an actual decision to be made - in most slots, there's a single option that's higher ilvl than all other available options, and even when there are two options of equal ilvl, in most cases the decision is pretty clear anyway. My best guess at this point is that the only slot where BIS isn't already obvious is the second trinket slot, where its unclear as yet whether Vial of Shadows or Starcatcher Compass comes out on top.
Yea, I kinda figured as much. Didn't know if you heavy number crunchers had tested it enough on the PTR to get a good enough understanding.

What are your thoughts as far as tier. Obviously hands, chest and legs, but there seems to be viable offspec pieces in the helm and shoulder department. I was leaning towards offspec helm and tier shoulders. Is there any reason to suggest we would want 5/5 tier?

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Old 11/28/11, 1:32 PM   #779
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
The only heroic offset piece is shoulders - all the other slots are badge loot or crafted, and so far as I know there is no firestone mechanic in 4.3. Fortunately, even if there is, it doesn't matter - the offset shoulders are clearly better than the tier piece (as red sockets are better than yellow ones, and mastery is better than crit) and in all other slots the tier piece is competitive with or superior to the offset option(s). So even if you had access to heroic versions of the other slots, you'd still choose 4/5 + shoulders; and since you don't, you choose... 4/5 + shoulders.

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Old 11/28/11, 4:36 PM   #780
sinnaa
Von Kaiser
 
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Goblin Rogue
 
Stormreaver
Oh, right. I forgot that nocturnal gaze came from VP and stumbled across a heroic version the ptr loot list: Nocturnal Gaze. I am sure this was just something on there that isn't going to be in game, as you are correct in that they did not make any suggestion at upgradable vendor loot.

If it helps with trinkets, I have discussed some of the mechanics of Vial of Shadow with some people. It has a CD of ~25 seconds and proc's fairly quickly after. The damage on the trinket is scales 1:1 with AP, increasing the base damage by 1 for each additional agility.

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