Elitist Jerks Combat Guide for Cata [12/01/2011]

 11/17/11, 5:30 AM #766 Keyur Glass Joe     keyurpaladin Human Paladin   Vek'nilash (EU) I dont want to loose 1 CPs(from 3 to 5 combo points) and I always want to use finisher with RvS. Not using RvS as you said its not good solution. Whats wrong with starting new combo point cycle with RvS? It have 15 sec buff and thats enough time for us.
11/17/11, 7:32 AM   #767
Sakuratei
Piston Honda

Night Elf Rogue

Frostmane (EU)
 Originally Posted by Keyur I dont want to loose 1 CPs(from 3 to 5 combo points) and I always want to use finisher with RvS. Not using RvS as you said its not good solution. Whats wrong with starting new combo point cycle with RvS? It have 15 sec buff and thats enough time for us.
Because Sinister Strike is worth more opportune DPS as long as you can use the combo point of the glyph proc. You only use RvS at 4 combo points because if the SS glyph procs at 4 combo points, it is completely wasted.

11/17/11, 7:53 AM   #768
Ptitcitron
Glass Joe

Pandaren Rogue

Sargeras (EU)
 Originally Posted by Keyur I dont want to loose 1 CPs(from 3 to 5 combo points) and I always want to use finisher with RvS. Not using RvS as you said its not good solution. Whats wrong with starting new combo point cycle with RvS? It have 15 sec buff and thats enough time for us.
By doing so You will still waste 1 combo point in 16.7% of the cases, and you can't avoid that (draw the probability tree and take into acount 2/3 ruthlessness).

To explain quickly:
You have around 16.5% probability to go directly from 3CP to 5CP => 100-16.5= 83.5% (0.835) probability to have 4CP.
Every time you will have 4 CP you will be performing a last SS. So you have 20% (0.2) probability to waste 1 CP.

That means that the probability to waste 1 CP is : 0.835*0.2 = 0.167 => 16.7%

11/18/11, 12:27 AM   #769
Chult86
Piston Honda

Goblin Rogue

Illidan
 Originally Posted by MrBluto Recently I've been running Subtlety/Combat (single target and cleave fights respectively, obviously). I only recently noticed that when switching between specs you do not lose your current combat points. I.E.- You can approach any fight in subtlety to build up 5 pre-fight combo points on the target, then switch to Combat and retain the 5 combo points for an immediate 5pt SnD upon pulling. Just an interesting little fact that I recently noticed.
And... it's gone. Swapping specs with combo points on a target causes you to lose them.

Popping Slice and Dice with healer crits while in Sub, and then swapping to Combat right before the pull results in losing the SnD buff.

F M L

Rogue PoV Stream - US 1st - http://www.twitch.tv/ahdehl_bl MTWTh @ 8EST
http://www.bloodlegion.com

 11/18/11, 12:51 AM #770 Tekloth Glass Joe     Tekloth Night Elf Rogue   Darksorrow (EU) Did they hotfix that last night then? Because I was still able to hold CP's after switching specs on Raggy like 10 hours ago.
 11/18/11, 1:07 AM #771 Chult86 Piston Honda   Ahdehl Goblin Rogue   Illidan This was on PTR, my fault for the confusion. Rogue PoV Stream - US 1st - http://www.twitch.tv/ahdehl_bl MTWTh @ 8EST http://www.bloodlegion.com
 11/18/11, 6:48 PM #772 Pivotstun Glass Joe   Pivotscott Goblin Rogue   Kazzak (EU) Holding on to CPs and keeping your SnD buff is two completely different situations. You've always been able to keep your CPs when switching specs. However, you'll always lose your SnD buff when switching spec, so that you can't abuse the mastery effect gained from Sub, when switching over to Assassination / Combat.
11/18/11, 8:43 PM   #773
Chult86
Piston Honda

Goblin Rogue

Illidan
 Originally Posted by Pivotstun Holding on to CPs and keeping your SnD buff is two completely different situations. You've always been able to keep your CPs when switching specs. However, you'll always lose your SnD buff when switching spec, so that you can't abuse the mastery effect gained from Sub, when switching over to Assassination / Combat.
You do not retain the CPs when swapping specs on PTR now.

Rogue PoV Stream - US 1st - http://www.twitch.tv/ahdehl_bl MTWTh @ 8EST
http://www.bloodlegion.com

 11/20/11, 3:38 PM #774 Sneakattacks Glass Joe   Sneakattacks Troll Rogue   Lightning's Blade There is a bit of discussion about this in the 4.3 changes discussion section but what is the overall feel of using the Stage 1 Legendary daggers over current 391 combat weapons. We know that blizzard has attempted to encourage it by offering the equip bonus and the discussion ended while the MhG bonus was still active. Now that its been removed will it still be worth while?
 11/28/11, 3:36 AM #775 sinnaa Von Kaiser     Sinnaabun Goblin Rogue   Stormreaver Has anyone come up with a "working" stat weights for 4.3? I am curious to see how exactly the numbers play out with the legendary daggers with mastery, etc.
11/28/11, 3:43 AM   #776
Alash
Von Kaiser

Troll Rogue

Karazhan (EU)
 Originally Posted by Sneakattacks There is a bit of discussion about this in the 4.3 changes discussion section but what is the overall feel of using the Stage 1 Legendary daggers over current 391 combat weapons. We know that blizzard has attempted to encourage it by offering the equip bonus and the discussion ended while the MhG bonus was still active. Now that its been removed will it still be worth while?
I haven't heard anyone disagree with stage one daggers being superior. The weapon speed difference of 2.6/1.8 is 44,4%, which is then fully accounted for with the 45% SS/RvS bonus. I've not seen any final word on whether this indirect nerf to KS will account for more than what's gained in additional Combat Potency procs, but I'd bet the differences are marginal, and as such that the daggers come out (far) ahead of the skullcrusher and razor alternatives.

 Originally Posted by sinnaa Has anyone come up with a "working" stat weights for 4.3? I am curious to see how exactly the numbers play out with the legendary daggers with mastery, etc.
I second this.

 11/28/11, 4:21 AM #777 • Aldriana Mike Tyson   Aldriana Night Elf Rogue   Doomhammer We're not going to have particularly accurate stat weights until we have a good model of all the new procs, and we're not going to have a good model of all the new procs until we have a chance to fully test the proc mechanics, plus some time to figure out how to properly model some new proc behaviors that have not been seen before. As such, its going to be hard to put together accurate stat weights for a few weeks yet. That said: for the first few weeks your gear will still be pretty similar to T12 BIS, so you can use those stat weights for initial upgrades and probably not go too far wrong. In terms of putting together a BIS list, there actually are surprisingly few slots where there's an actual decision to be made - in most slots, there's a single option that's higher ilvl than all other available options, and even when there are two options of equal ilvl, in most cases the decision is pretty clear anyway. My best guess at this point is that the only slot where BIS isn't already obvious is the second trinket slot, where its unclear as yet whether Vial of Shadows or Starcatcher Compass comes out on top.
11/28/11, 1:16 PM   #778
sinnaa
Von Kaiser

Goblin Rogue

Stormreaver
 Originally Posted by Aldriana We're not going to have particularly accurate stat weights until we have a good model of all the new procs, and we're not going to have a good model of all the new procs until we have a chance to fully test the proc mechanics, plus some time to figure out how to properly model some new proc behaviors that have not been seen before. As such, its going to be hard to put together accurate stat weights for a few weeks yet. That said: for the first few weeks your gear will still be pretty similar to T12 BIS, so you can use those stat weights for initial upgrades and probably not go too far wrong. In terms of putting together a BIS list, there actually are surprisingly few slots where there's an actual decision to be made - in most slots, there's a single option that's higher ilvl than all other available options, and even when there are two options of equal ilvl, in most cases the decision is pretty clear anyway. My best guess at this point is that the only slot where BIS isn't already obvious is the second trinket slot, where its unclear as yet whether Vial of Shadows or Starcatcher Compass comes out on top.
Yea, I kinda figured as much. Didn't know if you heavy number crunchers had tested it enough on the PTR to get a good enough understanding.

What are your thoughts as far as tier. Obviously hands, chest and legs, but there seems to be viable offspec pieces in the helm and shoulder department. I was leaning towards offspec helm and tier shoulders. Is there any reason to suggest we would want 5/5 tier?

 11/28/11, 1:32 PM #779 • Aldriana Mike Tyson   Aldriana Night Elf Rogue   Doomhammer The only heroic offset piece is shoulders - all the other slots are badge loot or crafted, and so far as I know there is no firestone mechanic in 4.3. Fortunately, even if there is, it doesn't matter - the offset shoulders are clearly better than the tier piece (as red sockets are better than yellow ones, and mastery is better than crit) and in all other slots the tier piece is competitive with or superior to the offset option(s). So even if you had access to heroic versions of the other slots, you'd still choose 4/5 + shoulders; and since you don't, you choose... 4/5 + shoulders.
 11/28/11, 4:36 PM #780 sinnaa Von Kaiser     Sinnaabun Goblin Rogue   Stormreaver Oh, right. I forgot that nocturnal gaze came from VP and stumbled across a heroic version the ptr loot list: Nocturnal Gaze. I am sure this was just something on there that isn't going to be in game, as you are correct in that they did not make any suggestion at upgradable vendor loot. If it helps with trinkets, I have discussed some of the mechanics of Vial of Shadow with some people. It has a CD of ~25 seconds and proc's fairly quickly after. The damage on the trinket is scales 1:1 with AP, increasing the base damage by 1 for each additional agility.

 Elitist Jerks Combat Guide for Cata [12/01/2011]