Combat Guide for Cata [12/01/2011] - Page 53

Crevan · 11/28/11, 5:22 PM

Originally Posted by sinnaa

If it helps with trinkets, I have discussed some of the mechanics of Vial of Shadow with some people. It has a CD of ~25 seconds and proc's fairly quickly after. The damage on the trinket is scales 1:1 with AP, increasing the base damage by 1 for each additional agility.

I talked to Zimeron from Simulationcraft team about this, and this is what he knew at the time:

Originally Posted by Zimeron

The coefficients are the spell data.
LFR - .797
Normal - .90
Heroic - 1.016

I added them in r10279 - simulationcraft - World of Warcraft DPS Simulator - Google Project Hosting

Hamzsolja · 11/29/11, 10:46 AM

Profiler - Wowhead

I think that's the updated BiS. (Wowhead currently does not have the stage 3 legendaries so they could not be added to the list. Also the profiler does not allow me to put in the epic gems.)

My reasoning behind my choices:

Shoulder is the only good off piece.
397 Vendor Cloak has 50 less agility than 391 Dreadfire Drape.
397 Vendor Neck has the same Agility and amount of stats as 397 Choker of the Vanquished Lord but it replaces Mastery with Spell hit.
410 Shadow Wing Armbands barely come out ahead of the 397 Crafted Bracers due to the secondary stats.
I don't know the proc rate on 410 Starcatcher Compass or 410 Vial of Shadows so i took an educated guess.
410 Razor Saronite Chip yields more haste than the bow and replaces crit with Poison Hit.
I'm not 100% on the cloak enchant but with the 10% AP buff i had reason to believe 22 agility might be better.
I put 65 Mastery to gloves but that might be subject to change depending how high Expertise's EP rises.

Crevan · 11/29/11, 11:38 AM

397 Vendor Cloak has more agility and a lot more stats than 391 Dreadfire Drape.

Yet Dreadfire Drape has an extra red socket, so if we use the new epic gems, heroic DD will have 50 more agility, which will probably push it slightly ahead even despite less combat stats.

Regarding the rings, Emergency Descent Loop is a valor point item with no way of upgrading it to heroic. This only leaves the two raid drops as heroic options.

ieatpaperbag · 11/29/11, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Hamzsolja

397 Crafted bracers have better stats and because of the extra red gem slot/better socket bonus, the 397 Crafted Bracers yield more Agility putting it ahead of the 410 Shadow Wing Armbands.
I'm not 100% sure on the rings. Crit and Mastery aren't to far apart in EP but 410 Signet of Grasping Mouths yields more agility.

What EP values did you use? I assumed the same thing for the bracers but when calculating it with T12 EP values, found Shadow Wing to be better.

For the case above expertise cap and yellow cap
Shadow Wing:
(286+50+10)*2.8 + 84*1.5 + 127*1.25 + 167*1.7 = 1537.45
Bladeshadow:
(231+100+20)*2.8 + 117*1.5 + 186*1.7 = 1474.50

Similarly for below expertise cap I get 1566.85 verses 1490.60 respectively, also favoring Shadow Wing. The rings you chose should be correct, Emergency Descent Loop appears to be a vendor ring with no heroic version.

Hamzsolja · 11/29/11, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by Crevan

Yet Dreadfire Drape has an extra red socket, so if we use the new epic gems, heroic DD will have 50 more agility, which will probably push it slightly ahead even despite less combat stats.

Regarding the rings, Emergency Descent Loop is a valor point item with no way of upgrading it to heroic. This only leaves the two raid drops as heroic options.

The 397 Rep cloak though has a red socket and 10 agi for socket bonus. So DD is actually 5 agility behind if you put epic gems in both cloaks.

Crevan · 11/29/11, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hamzsolja

The 397 Rep cloak though has a red socket and 10 agi for socket bonus. So DD is actually 5 agility behind if you put epic gems in both cloaks.

Batwing cloak has 251 base agility, a red socket and 10 agility socket bonus, for a total of 311 agility (with an epic gem).
Dreadfire Drape has 241 base agility, two red sockets and 20 agility socket bonus, for a total of 361 agility (with two epic gems).

ieatpaperbag · 11/29/11, 1:20 PM

Originally Posted by Hamzsolja

The 397 Rep cloak though has a red socket and 10 agi for socket bonus. So DD is actually 5 agility behind if you put epic gems in both cloaks.

I'm seeing a 50 Agility difference, DD has 241+50+50+20=361 verses Batwing 251+50+10=311. Reforging the cloaks using T12 EP values and for a situation over expertise cap give 1388.5 for Batwing and 1426.3 for DD.

Hamzsolja · 11/29/11, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by ieatpaperbag

What EP values did you use? I assumed the same thing for the bracers but when calculating it with T12 EP values, found Shadow Wing to be better.

For the case above expertise cap and yellow cap
Shadow Wing:
(286+50+10)*2.8 + 84*1.5 + 127*1.25 + 167*1.7 = 1537.45
Bladeshadow:
(231+100+20)*2.8 + 117*1.5 + 186*1.7 = 1474.50

Similarly for below expertise cap I get 1566.85 verses 1490.60 respectively, also favoring Shadow Wing. The rings you chose should be correct, Emergency Descent Loop appears to be a vendor ring with no heroic version.

Blade Shadow -
231 agility + 2 red sockets (100 agility with epic gems) + 20 agi soeckt bonus = 351 agility
117 Poison Hit since in that setup we're not going over spell hit
186 haste

Shadow Wing -
286 agility + 1 red socket (50 agility with epic gems) + 10 agi socket bonus = 346 agility
211 crit
167 haste

BS
351 * 2.8 = 982.8
117 * 1.5 (although poison hit more around 1.55) = 175.5
186 * 1.7 = 316.2
1474

SW
346 * 2.8 = 968.8
211 * 1.25 = 263.75
167 * 1.7 = 283.9
1516

Hmm... only thing i can think off is that i accidentally used the old figure for crit (.9)... Woops >.>

As for the cape i accidentally used the heroic version for agility when i ran the math. I later found out it was a vendor cloak but for some reason kept the old agi figure in my head. It was late when i did it >.>

ieatpaperbag · 11/29/11, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by Hamzsolja

Hmm... only thing i can think off is that i accidentally used the figure for crit (.9)... Woops >.>

Not that it changes the result but keep in mind that typically you would reforge as well, so that 211 crit rating should become 127 crit rating and 84 spell hit rating.

Hamzsolja · 11/29/11, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by ieatpaperbag

Not that it changes the result but keep in mind that typically you would reforge as well, so that 211 crit rating should become 127 crit rating and 84 spell hit rating.

Yea i know it was late and i was running just raw numbers (unreforged). But just raw number alone it would've put SW under by 30.

Any who... i updated OP.

Edit: Reforged though you are right SW is ahead by 16.75 even with my wrong math.

Mr_V · 12/01/11, 1:44 PM

Hi guys,

Any clues about this bit of mystery here? I've finished the first part of the legendary daggers quest chain, and I've equipped Fear and Vengeance level 397 daggers. I understand that shadowcraft is still having problems with 4.3 gear (it showed a significant drop in dps after equipping these 2) until all the sims are done, but look at the stats from warcraft character window:

So all stats do show an improvement except - base damage. That is way lower, and probably because of Blizz's way to compensate damage debuff for having a quick weapon in Main Hand for combat spec, right? Or is there another reason? I'd find it strange that these two daggers are in any way inferior to Firelands heroic mace/dagger combo?

• Aldriana · 12/01/11, 2:05 PM

Your weapon damage is lower, because it is - the damage done by a single autoattack is quite a bit lower. Fortunately, this doesn't matter because you get a lot more autoattacks. If you look at the DPS numbers, you'll note that they are higher - you're doing more total damage, you're just doing it in smaller chunks.

This would normally be a problem for Combat, as it would weaken your weapon strikes; however, the 45% damage to SS and RvS should cover this - but its not reflected on the character sheet (as the character sheet doesn't report ability damage in the first place). It might show up on the tooltip for those abilities, but it certainly wouldn't show up on the character sheet.

So, basically: there's nothing there that contradicts the assertion that the stage 1 daggers are better. It just reflects the fact that they do damage by a slightly different pattern.

Chult86 · 12/01/11, 3:30 PM

When I was testing 2pc on PTR, I was delaying the initial tricks until after AR had expired, as with trinket procs/KS/AR I was energy capping for the first 30 seconds of the fight anyways. Has anyone else been using this timing?

Stabbaren · 12/01/11, 9:42 PM

I've been wondering a thing, if I'd get 2 pieces from LFR would it be worth getting that 2P bonus over my 4P T12? I do have my tier gear as 391 (Rhyolith head as offset). Since I noticed that the EP value of 2P T13 was higher but that obviously might only be for the normal verison of T13. If anyone could help me out finding a value for it that would be great.

sinnaa · 12/02/11, 12:06 AM

From my math, getting the tier 13 gloves and chest will are 328ep more valuable than keeping t12 stuff.