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Old 12/13/11, 11:44 AM   #841
meneldor
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Darkspear (EU)
Regarding using the legendary 1.8 MH dagger vs normal 2.6 MH:

It is my understanding that the damage Main Gauche inflicts is normalized to a 2.6 speed weapon.
The chance for it to proc however is not, so a faster MH will proc Main Gauche more often but inflict less damage every time thus theoretically making it MH speed independant.
The energy gained from Main Gauche via Combat potency should scale with speed however.

I did a few pretty long runs on a dummy naked with just different mainhand weapons and the number of MG procs and damage inflicted per proc are consisted with the description above. However the MG energy gained via combat potency did not seem to scale with weapon speed?
Have anyone else seen this or is it maybe a fluke of too short testruns on my part (5k melee attacks)?
I will try to rerun the tests for a longer time.

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Old 12/13/11, 4:07 PM   #842
Rhelloz
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Mug'thol
for anyone wondering, the madness of deathwing axe normal 403 ilvl appears to be an upgrade over the stage 1 legendary daggers, I'm seeing about 1-2k difference in dps vs a fully stacked legendary stage 1, and the proc accounts for around 5-5.5% of my damage.
Will check logs tonight to get a better idea of proc rates, can anyone else confirm these findings?

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Old 12/13/11, 6:46 PM   #843
Sakuratei
Piston Honda
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Frostmane (EU)
Yes, No'kaled seems like a solid upgrade from using Fear. During Ultraxion progress, our rogue with normal version axe was beating the other two by 2-3k DPS, most of that being the proc.

Furhtermore, I did some personal investigation in the logs at the same time, and concluded that the rogue with a 2.6 weapon did roughly 900 more DPS with Instant Poison on average over 34 tries. Doing some dirty inaccurate math I estimated that it would be roughly a 400 DPS increase to use the 391 mace from Firelands over Fear. The night after both rogues who switched from Fear to Firelands mace saw a 500-1k DPS increase, part of it probably being because of better tries through progress but also part being that using a 1.8 weapon instead of 2.6 loses something that isn't compensated for by the 45% damage increase for SS and RvS on Fear.

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Old 12/13/11, 10:26 PM   #844
Dokazil
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Stormreaver
Originally Posted by Rhelloz View Post
for anyone wondering, the madness of deathwing axe normal 403 ilvl appears to be an upgrade over the stage 1 legendary daggers, I'm seeing about 1-2k difference in dps vs a fully stacked legendary stage 1, and the proc accounts for around 5-5.5% of my damage.
Will check logs tonight to get a better idea of proc rates, can anyone else confirm these findings?
Look at post #814. After receiving my axe off madness of deathwing i did some testing and posted results in that post. Basically what it concludes is the 403 axe off madness is a DPS increase over Fear. Now come the second stage of the daggers i'm almost positive that will change.

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Old 12/13/11, 11:13 PM   #845
Sarvius
Don Flamenco
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Maiev
Originally Posted by meneldor View Post
It is my understanding that the damage Main Gauche inflicts is normalized to a 2.6 speed weapon.
It is not. Using a dagger MH you will get more mg procs from autoattacks, the same number from specials, and they will all hit for less. Less damage, more combat potency.

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Old 12/14/11, 3:33 AM   #846
Atrophic
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Azjol-Nerub
Has anyone did the math on which class it's best to cast TotT on when you don't have another Rogue to trade it with?

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Old 12/14/11, 3:39 AM   #847
poptya
Glass Joe
 
Pandaren Rogue
 
Boulderfist
Originally Posted by Atrophic View Post
Has anyone did the math on which class it's best to cast TotT on when you don't have another Rogue to trade it with?
Whichever one is doing the most dps when you cast it... During burst phases, probably a fury warrior or arcane mage. During steady phases, whoever generally tops meters.

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Old 12/14/11, 4:08 AM   #848
Probaton
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
Unlike buffs like Dark Intent, TotT does not synergize with anything; it doesn't work better on dot classes, it doesn't scale with haste, it doesn't scale with anything. It just provides a flat % dps boost. Hence, the person doing the most damage is your obvious target.
Incidentally, this also means you shouldn't necessarily cast it on another rogue if there's one present. As long as the tank has no trouble keeping aggro (which he shouldn't) you should forego the rogue for whoever is topping the charts.

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Old 12/14/11, 5:57 AM   #849
Atrophic
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Paladin
 
Azjol-Nerub
I've always heard that it's more dependent to put on a more sustained class rather than a proc based burst class.

The argument is coming down to, a Ret Paladin is arguing that it would be better to toss on him over the Frost DK or Fury Warrior doing comparable damage.

From my understanding, TotT isn't going to affect a Ret Paladin who could get CD locked with no procs as much as it will a DK or Warrior who don't have the problem nearly as much.

If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. It just makes sense in my head to give it to the person that is consistently sustaining rather than the person who is at risk of being RNG fucked. Now, granted if the Ret Paladin is like 5% ahead of the others, it makes sense to give it to them, but as long as it's a 1-2% margin, my brain tells me to give it to the non ret.

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Old 12/14/11, 6:18 AM   #850
Probaton
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Hellfire (EU)
Your argument works both ways. Yes, the retri pally could be resource starved for the couple secs you buff him but he could also be proccing like a motherfucker. If there is any way of determining this (eg in the first few seconds of a fight the burst classes should be out-dpsing the rampers by a significant margin) go right ahead and plan for it but if not I'd still be going for the highest overall dps.
Note that if you are in any way worried about aggro issues a Fury warrior is a supremely bad choice as they currently have no aggro mitigation at all.

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Old 12/14/11, 4:08 PM   #851
pentagramwookie
Glass Joe
 
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Human Rogue
 
Blade's Edge
Combat and energy capping

Originally Posted by Slipspace View Post
Does anyone else have serious issues with energy capping as of late as combat? I used to be able to time my killing spree in such a manner that it didn't cap my energy but it always does now. Also when bloodlust and/or adrenaline rush is up and I need to use a GCD on something like tricks of the trade, it's very common for me to cap on energy because my regen is just so fast. The way I understand it, energy is predicted to never cap when predicting DPS so this is a bad thing. Am I doing something wrong?

For this reason alone I switched back to assassination just because as a single target dps spec it is much easier to be "optimal". Tips, suggestions, etc would be very helpful.
Your not hitting your buttons fast enough, you should hardly ever energy cap. If it hurts your fingers to spam buttons that quickly then either switch specs as you mentioned or drink something with electrolytes as it will help your finger joints / cartilage.

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Old 12/14/11, 4:36 PM   #852
Chult86
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by pentagramwookie View Post
Your not hitting your buttons fast enough, you should hardly ever energy cap. If it hurts your fingers to spam buttons that quickly then either switch specs as you mentioned or drink something with electrolytes as it will help your finger joints / cartilage.
Incorrect.

I'm close to 2900 haste and energy capping during AR/Matrix-proc is just going to happen. The important thing is to use as much energy as you can during those times.

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Old 12/14/11, 8:13 PM   #853
Fishhead
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Mannoroth
Yeah, energy capping is definitely an issue in this tier from the higher haste, trinkets like [Starcatcher Compass], the 20% energy reduc from the 2pc, AD, heroism, KS, the DW encounter aspect buffs (not sure how the haste buff works exactly) and any other haste-related buffs I'm probably forgetting.

In a perfect world Blizzard would just buff damage and slow down regen to make Combat more manageable.

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Old 12/14/11, 8:41 PM   #854
Naihan
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Rogue
 
Bronzebeard
Is there any particular reason that Dreadfire Drape hasn't been added to the BIS list yet on the OP? I thought this was sorted out before.

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Old 12/15/11, 8:13 AM   #855
Tekloth
Glass Joe
 
Tekloth's Avatar
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Would it be plausible to add heroic No'kaled into the BiS-list in the same way that you've listed Electrowing Dagger, or do we not have enough information about the weapons for it to make it to the list yet?

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