Combat Guide for Cata [12/01/2011] - Page 67

Keriel · 02/06/12, 12:13 PM

Is it worth to use this macros ?

#showtooltip Vendetta
/cast Stealth
/cast Vendetta
/cancelaura Stealth
/usetalents [spec:1] 2; 1

As you can see this macros uses Stealth to apply Overkill, uses Vendetta, changes spec to combat in one click.
Advantages: you can start fight with ~15sec Overkill on you and ~41.8sec Vendetta on boss.
Disadvantage: 0 energy after changing spec.

yakut · 02/06/12, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by Solange

Hopefully this isn't against the rules, I'll just add some personal experience having the Fangs for a couple weeks now. It's NOT very exciting as combat

I would assume hardmode DW axe will is much much better than fangs. I'm certainly not seeing anything remotely to what Shadowcraft says (a 4000 dps increase)

(Note: I realize I'm not very good at rogue and that dummy tests can be deceiving, just thought some real-life examples might be interesting)

What I noticed in comparing the two of you on Ultraxion was quite interesting. I noticed that one rogue has a 98.7% uptime on SnD and the other has a 92.2%.

I'm also curious why I am not seeing Rupture in the damage breakdown at all for either rogue. At the moment, both Shadowcraft and Simulationcraft generally have this included for Combat as a dps increase. Lastly, the other thing that struck me as odd in that particular parse was the use of FoK on Ultraxion.

Edit to add: You won't see a 4k dps increase on Ultraxion anyway due to the Fading Light/Hour of Twilights. Simcraft does, however, have an Ultraxion profile where you can put in your raid buffs and see about where your damage should be.

Haileaus · 02/07/12, 12:49 PM

Should KS be used with less than max insight if AR is up and you are not close to max? It seems like with the CD reduction and considering that AR might go through Deep Insight there is a good chance that KS would be up for the next one. Or does the fact that you wait to use it until DI after AR make this irrelevant?

Naihan · 02/07/12, 3:24 PM

Originally Posted by Haileaus

Should KS be used with less than max insight if AR is up and you are not close to max? It seems like with the CD reduction and considering that AR might go through Deep Insight there is a good chance that KS would be up for the next one. Or does the fact that you wait to use it until DI after AR make this irrelevant?

For the vast majority of gear sets, it has recently become optimal to use KS on cooldown unless you currently have the AR buff up. I don't know if this is because of gear or advancements in modeling, but it has changed. If KS comes off CD the same time that AR comes off CD, use KS then AR. You're only delaying AR for an extremely short amount of time, and you're going to take off a ridiculous amount off of your KS CD with ARing afterwords.

xiehaven · 02/07/12, 6:22 PM

There is a discussion about using gouge in fight.
With 2 point on improved Gouge(make it 15 energy instead of 45) and a major glyph of gouge(able to perform it at back). It consume 15 energy, damage about half of a sinister stirke, and gain one combo point. One of the most effective way to gain points, which means more AR and KS. There is also proved that gouge actually benifit from lethality.

If gouge was added to circle, the benifit from haste would be lower, because gouge require much less energy per point than SS. At this case, it is more likely that each GCD will be performed. Ofcouse, under AR or other haste buff, when it is possible to perform a strike on every GCD, then gouge should not be use at all, so does rupture. They have high damage per energy (inaddition, gouge have much less point per energy), but low damage per hit. For the same reason, it obviously that gouge is best performing when not under any haste buff and AR.
There is also a conclude that gouge is even more competeble for alway perform RvS before finishing move:
3 point - gouge-RvS-Evis
4 point - RvS- Evis
This way, all damaging finishing move will be covered under RvS, and no point will be wasted.
Waiting for more stastic and discussion about gouge.

Sarvius · 02/07/12, 6:50 PM

Originally Posted by xiehaven

There is a discussion about using gouge in fight.
With 2 point on improved Gouge(make it 15 energy instead of 45) and a major glyph of gouge(able to perform it at back). It consume 15 energy, damage about half of a sinister stirke, and gain one combo point. One of the most effective way to gain points, which means more AR and KS. There is also proved that gouge actually benifit from lethality.

It doesn't benefit from lethality. It doesn't stack bandit's guile. It doesn't have a chance to proc an extra cp. It resets your swing timer. It's really not even close to overcoming its issues. Combat has enough energy generation as it is that adding a 15cp cp builder to the rotation would lead to capping.

xiehaven · 02/07/12, 7:50 PM

Originally Posted by Sarvius

It doesn't benefit from lethality. It doesn't stack bandit's guile. It doesn't have a chance to proc an extra cp. It resets your swing timer. It's really not even close to overcoming its issues. Combat has enough energy generation as it is that adding a 15cp cp builder to the rotation would lead to capping.

It does not resets swing timer, but it does stop autoattack. However, if u macro it with /startattack, it wont reset swing timer, wont affect at all.
For all of the other, It does not stack bandit's guile, this part i know.
I never heared anthing about proc extra cp, so it could be true it doesnt proc.
For lethality, some of my friend test it and told me it does benefit from lethality, just not writen on it.

To make sure im right, just test it again. It does not reset swing time at all

Shadire · 02/08/12, 7:44 AM

Question about MH weapon: No'kaled normal vs. 2nd stage dagger

Considering that dagger beats no'kaled when BFing did anyone try to estimate what % of encounter dps uptime should be "blade flurry'able" for the dagger to be dps net gain over no'kaled for the whole encounter?

I am fairly sure that MH dagger beats No'kaled on hc Yorsajh and Blackhorn but not sure about Zon'ozz where you can BF only for ~10-15% of the fight. Any thoughts on this?

Kballa · 02/08/12, 9:38 AM

I have a bit of technical question in regards to World of Logs raid analysis. I'm trying to help out another rogue in analyzing what he may be doing wrong and I'm trying to find some sort of way to see how many combo points he may be wasting (SS glyph proccing past 5) or how he may be using them relative to different levels of insight. Does anyone know of any queries that can be posted in world of logs expression editor relative to these issues?

Fae · 02/08/12, 9:50 AM

As far as I know, there are no combat log events for combo point gain. So it's impossible to get this kind of info from WoL.

sp00n · 02/08/12, 10:02 AM

"Things I'd like to see as well"

The best you could do would be something along this and count the abilities manually.

sourcename="Playername" AND (
( spell IN ("Shallow Insight", "Moderate Insight", "Deep Insight", "Slice and Dice", "Rupture") AND fulltype IN (SPELL_AURA_APPLIED, SPELL_AURA_REMOVED) ) OR
( spell IN ("Sinister Strike", "Revealing Strike", "Eviscerate") AND fulltype=SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS )
)

Some random ranked WoL parse:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I would love to see more possibilities for the WoL expression engine, something like "BETWEEN this and that", but unfortunately that's not possible (yet?).

Haileaus · 02/08/12, 1:28 PM

Instead of purely on CD, would it actually be better to use KS just before you use your next finisher, as then you would have a greater chance of gaining a new level of insight before you use a finisher that will result in wasted time?

Kballa · 02/08/12, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by sp00n

"Things I'd like to see as well"

The best you could do would be something along this and count the abilities manually.

sourcename="Playername" AND (
( spell IN ("Shallow Insight", "Moderate Insight", "Deep Insight", "Slice and Dice", "Rupture") AND fulltype IN (SPELL_AURA_APPLIED, SPELL_AURA_REMOVED) ) OR
( spell IN ("Sinister Strike", "Revealing Strike", "Eviscerate") AND fulltype=SPELL_CAST_SUCCESS )
)

Some random ranked WoL parse:
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I would love to see more possibilities for the WoL expression engine, something like "BETWEEN this and that", but unfortunately that's not possible (yet?).

Thank you so much, this gives me somewhere to start. Previously I was going through the log browser and trying to find all the right filters and counting through everything. I'm going to post something on the rogue forums on wow to consider adding combo point addition into combat logs.

Omanko · 02/08/12, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by Haileaus

Instead of purely on CD, would it actually be better to use it just before you use your next finisher, as then you would have a greater chance of gaining a new level of insight before you use a finisher that will result in wasted time?

Speaking of which, is there some kind of addon that displays Insight as stacks? I'd very much love a way to know how many SSs I've done or rather how many more it takes for the next level. Why Blizz hasn't done it like that from the start is beyond me...

Maleficius · 02/08/12, 5:48 PM

Originally Posted by Omanko

Speaking of which, is there some kind of addon that displays Insight as stacks? I'd very much love a way to know how many SSs I've done or rather how many more it takes for the next level. Why Blizz hasn't done it like that from the start is beyond me...

The closest thing that I know of is called bandits guile helper (Bandits Guile Helper - Rogue - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse). It is a movable icon that shows: current insight in terms of color (green/yellow/red), number representing what step you are currently in, a countdown until insight fade, and an estimate of time to complete a cycle (not sure how accurate this part is).

It also auto hides if you are not combat spec. I have used it for a while and it is not bad. I would not say it is great, but it does what I think you are asking. I primarily use it to see what level of insight I am currently in which is easy to tell from the color.