Combat Guide for Cata [12/01/2011] - Page 73

Kodjin · 07/10/12, 3:03 PM

I was under the impression that the Legendaries came out a couple thousand DPS above the Heroic No'Kaled and Legendary off hand. I just spoke with the top rogue on my server and she is saying that it was proven that Heroic No'kaled comes out on top for single target damage. I don't see how and have not been able to find any supporting documentation. I can see where in shorter duration fights that it may come out on top given that shadows of the destroyer take so long to stack for combat but I still do not believe it would be enough to come out on top.

Mechakisc · 07/11/12, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by Kodjin

the top rogue on my server and she is saying that it was proven that Heroic No'kaled comes out on top for single target damage.

Forphium

Sourskittles

Top guild on your server is Meridian, according to Guildox. Those are the two best equipped rogues in that guild. Forphium is Assination/Sub, and had legendaries equipped, while Sourskittles is currently speced combat and has heroic axe + legendary offhand.

The folks on Doomhammer - including Aldriana - with the legendaries all seem to be rocking sub or assassination these days, so I don't have much to go on that way.

Strictly speaking, most of the top items are BIS - that is, do the most damage - depending on the fight. I never use my compass on Spine or Hagara, for example, because there's too good a chance the proc will be wasted, whereas I always use my compass on Ultraxion. It may well be that on certain fights, Heroic No'Kaled is better, but the only way to figure that out for you is going to be parsing the fights using the two weapons, or else simming out different length fights using both weapons. I would postulate that Hagara and Spine are good candidates for using the axe, because, again, you spend a bunch of time out of contact.

With 30% buff live now, I'm guessing you could get most of the kills using a nice [Survivor's Blade].

Kodjin · 07/11/12, 1:50 PM

It's Forphium

It is still 25% I believe. Unless it changed since last night.

Serol · 07/11/12, 7:27 PM

For combat, the legendaries come out ahead because of Restless Blades. Each Fury of the Destroyer proc takes off ~ 60 seconds for both AR and KS, , which I believe is better than the H No'kaled proc.

P.S. I ran Sourskittles through Shadowcraft, and it says that the legendary MH comes out to ~3k more than the axe, so take it for what you will.

Mechakisc · 07/12/12, 12:54 AM

I don't know why, but I always forget how Fury interacts with RB when someone asks this question. Thanks for reminding me again.

And yeah, still 25%.

Kodjin · 07/12/12, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by Serol

P.S. I ran Sourskittles through Shadowcraft, and it says that the legendary MH comes out to ~3k more than the axe, so take it for what you will.

Out of curiosity, what was the combat duration set to?

Pathal · 07/12/12, 10:07 AM

All of that is rather irrelevant.

The engine still doesn't model the legendary proc, it just assumes you're stacking agi up to 50 (and doesn't drop it).

Serol · 07/16/12, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by Pathal

All of that is rather irrelevant.

The engine still doesn't model the legendary proc, it just assumes you're stacking agi up to 50 (and doesn't drop it).

Does that mean that the legendaries are better or worse than Shadowcraft calculates?

Pathal · 07/16/12, 10:49 PM

Probably better.

The way I understand the daggers, is that on average they outperform Heroic No'kaled. The issue is that they have a wider margin than No'kaled, and the "floor" for the daggers extends below the "floor" for No'kaled. In other words, with terrible RNG for both weapons, No'kaled would edge out the daggers, but with great RNG, the daggers should easily beat the axe.

There's a few other factors that skew the results based on the fight (like No'kaled's proc not being carried over via Blade Flurry), and I feel safe saying that the daggers, on the whole, are better.

fella73 · 07/19/12, 12:00 AM

nevermind someone answered my question previously.

Hanz0 · 07/20/12, 9:37 AM

I'm sure its way too late to bring this up, but I'll still do it.

Currently Starcatcher Compass - Item - World of Warcraft is just 61 EP above Vial of Shadows - Item - World of Warcraft. Meaning that capping energy even for 1 second turns the table in favor of Vial.
Not only that, but most of the times when compass procs I cannot use Tricks or AR or KS as I`ll cap energy even more, heavily decreasing the compass value.

The obvious solution would be not using any of the 3 CDs but that still translates into DPS loss.

Grimwolf · 07/20/12, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Hanz0

I'm sure its way too late to bring this up, but I'll still do it.

Currently Starcatcher Compass - Item - World of Warcraft is just 61 EP above Vial of Shadows - Item - World of Warcraft. Meaning that capping energy even for 1 second turns the table in favor of Vial.
Not only that, but most of the times when compass procs I cannot use Tricks or AR or KS as I`ll cap energy even more, heavily decreasing the compass value.

The obvious solution would be not using any of the 3 CDs but that still translates into DPS loss.

That might be why you see so many Combat Rogues using Vial.

Mechakisc · 07/21/12, 2:08 AM

Originally Posted by Furtim

It's been mentioned several times, but energy generation is only half of the equation of what haste brings to the table, with white swings being the other half, which in turn procs more MG hits.

White hits are roughly 30-35% of our damage, with MG procs probably around 10% or so, so it'd likely take an insane amount of mastery to make it worth more than haste.

You will energy cap at times, it is inevitable, and as long as you are using your abilities correctly and not capping because you are doing nothing, then just enjoy not being energy starved.

Guys. Just go back a couple pages. Or read the entire thread if you like.

More melee swings > energy capping.

Mechakisc · 07/21/12, 2:17 AM

Originally Posted by Sakuratei

The energy regen part of Haste is less than half of it's value. It is always worth using Adrenaline Rush when it's ready so it can be affected by Restless Blades (assuming you stick on a target for the duration) for the increase in white melee damage and it's subsidiaries (Poisons, Main Gauche).

I wonder how many times we'll have to specify this before people stop overexaggerating the energy capping problem.

Here's the one I was looking for.

And the way trinkets drop for our raid, I'm assuming that a lot of rogues use whichever trinket they're lucky enough to get...

Tytyl · 08/01/12, 11:21 AM

Don't remember if it has been determined earlier but does BF procs Combat Potency?