Discussion thread for information about the upcoming 4.1 patch. I'll try to keep this first post updated with the announced changes. Please keep conversation productive - as usual, whining, wishlisting, etc. are against the rules.

Current Changes

Combat

• Recuperate now restores 3% of maximum health, up from 2%.
• Improved Recuperate now increases Recuperate's ability to restore by an additional 0.5/1% of your maximum health, down from 1/2%.

Subtlety

• Stealth now has a 6 sec cooldown. Apparently no longer reduces your speed.
• Tricks of the Trade now has a 100 yards range, up from 20 yards.
• Nightstalker now increases your speed while stealthed by 5/10%, down from 7/15%.

Something to clarify with Nightstalker is that it WILL stack with other movement bonuses. Question is, will this stack with Quickening? They seem to contradict each other, but my initial guess would be no. However, this may add incentive to pick up [Formula: Enchant Boots - Assassin's Step] over straight agility.

It's interesting that they're indirectly buffing Recuperate in a sense that the talents are reduced in value. Not sure what the goal is here since the mitigation is the real factor when considering points. Ah, I forgot about Energetic Recovery being a staple of Sub, as pointed out below.

I'm overall excited for the changes, especially the extension to TotT range and buff to stealth speed. Long time coming IMO.

I do not think it will stack with Quickening, judging by the tooltips.

Quickening states: "Does not stack with other movement increasing effects".
Nightstalker states "Increases movement speed..."

If Nightstalker said something along the lines of "Reduces the movement speed penalty...", I would say that they would stack, but that's not the case.

mmo-champ has the blue notes on the patch.

•Nightstalker now reduces the cooldown of Stealth by 2/4 seconds, and instead of negating the movement penalty from Stealth, it adds a 5/10% movement speed bonus (stacking with other effects) while Stealthed.

So it looks like it will pretty clearly stack with other effects while stealthed.

So we have:
1) Buff to Tricks with the range upgrade.
Which means I don't have to move to tricks the tank on some bosses going forward and, more importantly, lets me tricks the highest dps in the raid instead of the highest melee/going to be within 20 yrds of me dps.

2) Nightstalker buff.
Actually this isn't that big a deal for pvp since it takes about 6 seconds to get out of combat anyway, so it won't be all that meaningful, especially since Demo shout no longer breaks stealth. There really aren't that many ways for a rogue to be pulled out of stealth without also being put in combat. That being said, faster stealthed speed is *always* a plus for sap openers and chasing down runners.

For PvE, this feels more like a tiny buff to Mutilate, since it's directly a speed boost towards getting into position at the start of fights. It might also be handy for a "mini-sprint" combined with Vanish on some fights.

3) Improved Recuperate is now slightly worse, but recuperate is better.
Again this is a bit of a buff for Mutilate rogues (in PvE and PvP) though we're not really using recup all that much these days as it is. It's also a direct buff to Subtlety since they're keeping Recup up for the energy regen anyway, so now they heal a bit more as well.


Honestly our class changes as announced are pretty insignificant from a PvE perspective. Which I like, since I'd rather that my class was working as intended, as opposed to being on the warrior roller coaster of nerf/buff/total rewrite.

Any word on if the new tier of raiding is a little less "melee unfriendly"?

Assassin's step still won't stack with quickening or other movement speed bonuses (such as fleet shadowspirit). They were just clear in the tooltip that, despite nightstalker no longer being a "your movement speed penalty is reduced" effect, it will stack with other effects.

Sorry about that, I should have been more specific. I don't think the reduced cooldown on stealth is actually going to be all that meaningful for pvp. Instant Stealth is only instant out of combat, and getting out of combat tended to take longer then 6 seconds most of the time anyway.

The movement speed thing will be a nice buff for pvp yes, but rogue mobility in pvp is a bit sad right now anyway, so I suspect this is more intended towards catching us up to where we should be in that department.

With the exception of the increased cast range of TotT, these changes are only minor modifications that concern mostly pvp-oriented rogue players.

Survivability spec, or semi-survivability spec, rogues in PvP are almost always 2/2 in Imp. Recuperate since having 4% self-heal is just amazing. With the change to -just- Recuperate's base healing for more, we can invest 2 of those extra talent points into other trees while still keeping an awesome self-heal.

As mentioned before, it still takes 6 seconds to leave combat which doesn't raise the value of the stealth cooldown change.

Any AoE ability, whether is damages you or not, as long as it touches you -will- put you into combat. Only if it damages you will stealth break. Meaning shouts, blood boils, blizzards, frost novas, hellfires, etc. will (and has always) put you into combat.

Edit-
Any mediocre PvPer can easily disagree with you and say rogues, primarily Sub rogues, have the best mobility in the game hands down. CoS, Vanish, S-step, Sprint, Preparation (glyphed); I shouldn't have to explain what they do. If anything, ms buffs while in stealth makes it easier to open, chase, and reset in plenty of different situations that will bring a lot of moaning to a lot of classes in terms of PvP.

There are currently three new epic trinkets coming in 4.1., heroic ones ilvl 391:

Hungerer
433 agility
Equip: When using an ability causes your Energy or Focus to fall below 20% of your maximum, you will gain 1730 haste rating for 15 sec. This cannot occur more often than once per minute.

Matrix Restabiliser
433 agility
Equip: Your melee and ranged attacks have a chance to grant 1730 Critical Strike Rating, Haste Rating, or Mastery Rating, whichever is currently highest.

Ancient Petrified Seed
Equip: Increases your mastery rating by 433
Use: Increases your Agility by 1441 for 15 sec. (1 Min Cooldown)

Just to give a rough idea of the relative EP values of these trinkets using our current raiding tier’s EP values (do not take numbers these for face value).

Trinket	Assassination	Combat	Subtlety
Hungerer	1644.8	1817.9	2142.7
Matrix Restabiliser	1575.6	1688.1	2025.9
Ancient Petrified Seed	1499.6	1544.2	1764.5

I assumed that Hungerer is triggered on cooldown, whether you can reliably do that is questionable. I assumed that Matrix Restabiliser has a 20% uptime like most of our current trinkets which may not be true since the two other new trinkets have a potential for a 25% uptime; if that’s the case Matrix Restabiliser will be equal or better than Hungerer for all three specs. I also assumed that it would proc haste for both Combat and Subtlety and mastery for Assassination. I have also assumed that Combat and Subtlety would reforge Ancient Petrified Seed into Haste.

The ToTT change I'm really looking forward to, so many times I've *just* been out of range of my focus target and had to reposition to activate it then move back. It'll be nice in situations like the dragon twins. The Recuperate change is interesting too. The buff to base level is nice, but the talented version is now somewhat less appealing. Will be interesting to see how it pans out in practise though.

Just checked on the PTR, displayed run speed with 2/2 Quickening and 2/2 Nightstalker is 126%, so it appears that not only do they stack, they stack multiplicatively, as opposed to additively. I did some further testing with my rogue faction changed to Worgen, and found some interesting results. All results are with 2/2 Quickening, 2/2 Nightstalker, and glyphed Sprint.

Stealth	Darkflight	Sprint	Speed
			115%
X			126%
	X		161%
X	X		161%
		X	200%
X		X	220%

Basically, it seems that in every situation two of the three buffs apply multiplicatively, but which two varies. Quickening and Nightstalker stack, Quickening and Darkflight stack, and Nightstalker and Sprint stack.