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05/03/11, 3:51 AM
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#1
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In the rear with the gear!
Troll Rogue
Khaz'goroth (EU)
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4.2 Changes Discussion
First round of 4.2 changes on MMO-C.
Blind duration against enemy NPCs is now 1 minute, while the duration against players remains 8 seconds.
Stealth now once again begins its cooldown once the rogue leaves Stealth.
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Moderator Note: As usual, please keep conversation constructive, don't whine, etc.
Last edited by Aldriana : 05/05/11 at 1:24 AM.
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05/05/11, 1:29 AM
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#3
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Piston Honda
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Those are downright AMAZING. If I'm reading it right, the 4pc bonus is a permanent 25% buff to Haste, Crit or Mastery the entire fight, changing every time you tricks.
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05/05/11, 1:48 AM
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#4
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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I just did some very rough napkinmath on them with a guildie; here's what we came up with.
2pc: On Chim tonight, about 30% of my damage was from melee crits; hence gaining 6% damage from those sources is roughly a 1.8% DPS boost; BIS T11 DPS is around 25k, so we're looking at ~450 DPS = ~400 EP from the set bonus. So quite good. However, if the buffs overwrite each other (which they very well might), it will be significantly less good.
4pc: Lets assume the worst case scenario, that it can effect hit and expertise. In my current gear, I have 876 crit (.92 EP each), 197 exp (1.08 EP), 846 haste (1.22 EP), 2166 mastery (1.27 EP), 1338 hit (.75 EP each), which, when multiplied out, is 290 EP average buff. However, that's quite RNG - a mastery proc is worth ~700 EP, which significantly drags the average up; if you get a lot of them, it'll be amazing; if you don't get very many (which can easily happen), its... significantly less good.
So: both are pretty good - better than either of our T11 set bonuses, based on early estimates.
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05/05/11, 1:50 AM
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#5
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Glass Joe
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I agree that the 4pc bonus looks VERY nice IF what Aldriana brought up isn't an issue. If there's a chance of proccing hit or expertise, that'll definitely bring down the value of that bonus. But I personally don't think that'll be the case. Putting hit and expertise on a passive proc isn't something that I think would make any sense for Blizz. Plus it would sort of break their current model for the use and application of hit and expertise in game.
I'm a bit more concerned with the 2pc. Does anyone else anticipate this to be a little underpowered given current crit chances? I personally have fairly low crit and feel this 2pc might be a bit of a disappointment. Though, when placed against the current 4pc T11, I still think it'll be a step up.
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05/05/11, 2:07 AM
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#6
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Great Tiger
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Digging through the spell IDs, I found that only haste/crit/mastery spells are implemented for the 4pc set bonus:
Uncategorized - Spells - World of Warcraft
Future on Fire - Spell - World of Warcraft
Fiery Devastation - Spell - World of Warcraft
Master of Flames - Spell - World of Warcraft
Using Aldriana's example numbers, that works out to an average of 382 EP
Using my rogue's gear (combat, not as well geared as Aldriana)
Haste: 753 EP (1.36*2214*.25)
Mastery: 178 EP (636*1.12*.25)
Crit: 129 EP (567*.91*.25)
Average: 353 EP, but the spread between crit and haste is very large.
BiS assassination gear: 400 EP
BiS combat gear: 439 EP
Last edited by jaxdahl : 05/05/11 at 2:36 AM.
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134916 <locriani> my friend went to paris for a week and only spent $100
134936 <James> how many dicks did he suck to pull that off briess
134936 <XI|> how many dicks did he suck locriani
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05/05/11, 2:43 AM
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#7
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Don Flamenco
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That's 382 EP in Aldriana's current gear. The actual value of it for Mutilate in high end t12 would probably be in the mid 500's (maybe 540-570), if I were to hazard a guess that is.
To contrast, I gaged it at about ~349 EP in my own current gear. So as much as I would love to see this go live, I'm anticipating it to be reduced, possibly to 20%, if not a few percent below that.
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05/05/11, 3:12 AM
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#8
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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A couple of other details to keep in mind:
1) The interaction with proc trinkets must be kept in mind; a nontrivial number of Tricks over the course of a fight will be cast with such things procced, and getting a haste proc with a ~2000 crit or hit proc (from Cyclone or Prestors) is a good couple hundred extra EP for that proc.
2) This will also increase the value of the 3 rating stats by 8.33% (25%, times 1/3 uptime each), which, for instance, bumps my mastery EP from 1.27 to 1.38, haste from 1.21 to 1.31, and so on. This is on top of the normal increases you would expect to see as gear improves. Hence, rating stats will be worth markedly more than they currently are, and in particular will start to pass the critical threshhold of 1/2 the value of a point of Agi, which causes a lot more socket bonuses to be worth getting (for instance, all agi socket bonuses become worth it, whereas currently many aren't). Hence, our rating values will be that much higher as well.
Returning to the 2pc for a moment: taking a look at a recent Chimaeron parse from my guild's combat rogue, it appears that Combat gets closer to 40% of its damage from melee crits; hence, good as the 2pc bonus is likely to be for Mutilate, odds are its better still for Combat.
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05/05/11, 6:18 AM
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#9
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Aldriana
A couple of other details to keep in mind:
1) The interaction with proc trinkets must be kept in mind; a nontrivial number of Tricks over the course of a fight will be cast with such things procced, and getting a haste proc with a ~2000 crit or hit proc (from Cyclone or Prestors) is a good couple hundred extra EP for that proc.
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So it seems like it's better to wait a sec. when you trinket like Prestors is rdy.
And maybe Hurricane is better then Landslide.
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05/05/11, 10:50 AM
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#10
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Glass Joe
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Really hope it can't proc expertise because that would make the 4 piece worth 0 EP whenever it did proc expertise for a Combat Rogue or you might have to reforge in case it does proc? I don't know, either way it would cause an issue.
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05/05/11, 11:27 AM
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#11
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Von Kaiser
Worgen Rogue
Laughing Skull
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4.2 Gear Details
Let me preface this by saying all items are data-mined and subject to change, i.e. should not be taken at face value. This is simply to give an idea of what loot to expect from patch 4.2. EP values given are for Assassination only (Axes/Maces/Swords calculated for Combat).
Last edited by Jodou : 06/16/11 at 9:52 AM.
Reason: *Newly Updated Items
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05/05/11, 11:50 AM
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#12
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Don Flamenco
Gnome Rogue
Darksorrow (EU)
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You could probably add Flickering Wristbands to the list. These look like the new random enchanted epics. Also, regarding the cloak and 2 red sockets - it seems to have a lower combat rating allocation compared to, say the intellect cloak of the same ilvl, which could compensate for 2 extra gems. |
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05/05/11, 11:52 AM
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#13
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Glass Joe
Orc Rogue
Die Nachtwache (EU)
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Any thoughts on the progression of the item levels? T11 has 359 normal mode -> 372 heroic mode -> 379 Sinestra. Right now, I deducted for T12: 363 normal mode -> 378 heroic mode -> 391 Ragnaros heroic (?). Or rather 378 normal mode -> 391 heroic mode, with the load of 363 ilvl items being quest rewards and such.
Are T11-heroic raider meant to skip T12-normal mode? They'll have a vast advantage over raids progressing purely on normal modes, meaning either 359er raids will have a very hard time progressing through T12-normal or 372er raids will breeze through T12-normal.
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05/05/11, 11:56 AM
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#14
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Don Flamenco
Gnome Rogue
Darksorrow (EU)
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Item level 363 is for crafted weapons only. The raid drops follow the standard gear tier formula: normal mode is half a tier higher than previous heroic mode content. So, 378 is normal mode, 391 is heroic.
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05/05/11, 1:22 PM
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#15
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Mike Tyson
Night Elf Rogue
Doomhammer
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Originally Posted by Inthedârk
So it seems like it's better to wait a sec. when you trinket like Prestors is rdy.
And maybe Hurricane is better then Landslide.
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Regarding Hurricane: 450 Haste, even for combat, it maybe 700 EP; 33% uptime on a 25% buff increases that to about 760, which is still quite a bit less than the 1000 avalanche gives.
As for waiting on trinkets: taking a second look at those buffs, I suspect that they'll update dynamically: that is, they're a buff that gives a 25% boost to (say) haste, not a buff that gives temporary haste equal to 25% of your current total. So my guess would be that even if your trinket procced after the buff, it would still get the increase, which would make waiting unnecessary.
That said: if that's not the case, it might be worth waiting a few seconds on... but not very many. Keep in mind that you're creating downtime where you have *no* buff, *and* delaying the damage bonus on your target, in exchange for a 33% chance of a larger buff. There is some amount of time that its worth waiting for that, but its not going to be more than a few seconds.
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