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Old 05/03/11, 3:51 AM   #1
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Auchindoun (EU)
4.2 Changes Discussion

First round of 4.2 changes on MMO-C.

Blind duration against enemy NPCs is now 1 minute, while the duration against players remains 8 seconds.
Stealth now once again begins its cooldown once the rogue leaves Stealth.
Moderator Note: As usual, please keep conversation constructive, don't whine, etc.

Last edited by Aldriana : 05/05/11 at 1:24 AM.

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Old 05/05/11, 1:24 AM   #2
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
T12 set bonuses are on wowhead:
Item - Rogue T12 2P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft
Item - Rogue T12 4P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft

Haven't had a chance to run the numbers, but it seems to me that value of the second one is going to depend quite a bit on whether it can select hit and expertise as stats to increase, or just crit/haste/mastery.

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Old 05/05/11, 1:29 AM   #3
Chult86
Piston Honda
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Illidan
Those are downright AMAZING. If I'm reading it right, the 4pc bonus is a permanent 25% buff to Haste, Crit or Mastery the entire fight, changing every time you tricks.

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Old 05/05/11, 1:48 AM   #4
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
I just did some very rough napkinmath on them with a guildie; here's what we came up with.

2pc: On Chim tonight, about 30% of my damage was from melee crits; hence gaining 6% damage from those sources is roughly a 1.8% DPS boost; BIS T11 DPS is around 25k, so we're looking at ~450 DPS = ~400 EP from the set bonus. So quite good. However, if the buffs overwrite each other (which they very well might), it will be significantly less good.

4pc: Lets assume the worst case scenario, that it can effect hit and expertise. In my current gear, I have 876 crit (.92 EP each), 197 exp (1.08 EP), 846 haste (1.22 EP), 2166 mastery (1.27 EP), 1338 hit (.75 EP each), which, when multiplied out, is 290 EP average buff. However, that's quite RNG - a mastery proc is worth ~700 EP, which significantly drags the average up; if you get a lot of them, it'll be amazing; if you don't get very many (which can easily happen), its... significantly less good.

So: both are pretty good - better than either of our T11 set bonuses, based on early estimates.

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Old 05/05/11, 1:50 AM   #5
SleepySlug
Glass Joe
 
Undead Rogue
 
Anvilmar
I agree that the 4pc bonus looks VERY nice IF what Aldriana brought up isn't an issue. If there's a chance of proccing hit or expertise, that'll definitely bring down the value of that bonus. But I personally don't think that'll be the case. Putting hit and expertise on a passive proc isn't something that I think would make any sense for Blizz. Plus it would sort of break their current model for the use and application of hit and expertise in game.

I'm a bit more concerned with the 2pc. Does anyone else anticipate this to be a little underpowered given current crit chances? I personally have fairly low crit and feel this 2pc might be a bit of a disappointment. Though, when placed against the current 4pc T11, I still think it'll be a step up.

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Old 05/05/11, 2:07 AM   #6
jaxdahl
King Hippo
 
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Troll Rogue
 
Mal'Ganis
Digging through the spell IDs, I found that only haste/crit/mastery spells are implemented for the 4pc set bonus:
Uncategorized - Spells - World of Warcraft

Future on Fire - Spell - World of Warcraft
Fiery Devastation - Spell - World of Warcraft
Master of Flames - Spell - World of Warcraft

Using Aldriana's example numbers, that works out to an average of 382 EP

Using my rogue's gear (combat, not as well geared as Aldriana)
Haste: 753 EP (1.36*2214*.25)
Mastery: 178 EP (636*1.12*.25)
Crit: 129 EP (567*.91*.25)
Average: 353 EP, but the spread between crit and haste is very large.

BiS assassination gear: 400 EP
BiS combat gear: 439 EP

Last edited by jaxdahl : 05/05/11 at 2:36 AM.

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Old 05/05/11, 2:43 AM   #7
Pathal
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That's 382 EP in Aldriana's current gear. The actual value of it for Mutilate in high end t12 would probably be in the mid 500's (maybe 540-570), if I were to hazard a guess that is.

To contrast, I gaged it at about ~349 EP in my own current gear. So as much as I would love to see this go live, I'm anticipating it to be reduced, possibly to 20%, if not a few percent below that.

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Old 05/05/11, 3:12 AM   #8
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
A couple of other details to keep in mind:
1) The interaction with proc trinkets must be kept in mind; a nontrivial number of Tricks over the course of a fight will be cast with such things procced, and getting a haste proc with a ~2000 crit or hit proc (from Cyclone or Prestors) is a good couple hundred extra EP for that proc.

2) This will also increase the value of the 3 rating stats by 8.33% (25%, times 1/3 uptime each), which, for instance, bumps my mastery EP from 1.27 to 1.38, haste from 1.21 to 1.31, and so on. This is on top of the normal increases you would expect to see as gear improves. Hence, rating stats will be worth markedly more than they currently are, and in particular will start to pass the critical threshhold of 1/2 the value of a point of Agi, which causes a lot more socket bonuses to be worth getting (for instance, all agi socket bonuses become worth it, whereas currently many aren't). Hence, our rating values will be that much higher as well.

Returning to the 2pc for a moment: taking a look at a recent Chimaeron parse from my guild's combat rogue, it appears that Combat gets closer to 40% of its damage from melee crits; hence, good as the 2pc bonus is likely to be for Mutilate, odds are its better still for Combat.

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Old 05/05/11, 6:18 AM   #9
Inthedârk
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Aldriana View Post
A couple of other details to keep in mind:
1) The interaction with proc trinkets must be kept in mind; a nontrivial number of Tricks over the course of a fight will be cast with such things procced, and getting a haste proc with a ~2000 crit or hit proc (from Cyclone or Prestors) is a good couple hundred extra EP for that proc.
So it seems like it's better to wait a sec. when you trinket like Prestors is rdy.
And maybe Hurricane is better then Landslide.

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Old 05/05/11, 10:50 AM   #10
Durrwad
Glass Joe
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Arthas
Really hope it can't proc expertise because that would make the 4 piece worth 0 EP whenever it did proc expertise for a Combat Rogue or you might have to reforge in case it does proc? I don't know, either way it would cause an issue.

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Old 05/05/11, 11:27 AM   #11
Jodou
Von Kaiser
 
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Worgen Rogue
 
Laughing Skull
4.2 Gear Details

Let me preface this by saying all items are data-mined and subject to change, i.e. should not be taken at face value. This is simply to give an idea of what loot to expect from patch 4.2. EP values given are for Assassination only (Axes/Maces/Swords calculated for Combat).

Slot Item iLvl EP Agi Sta Hit Crit Exp Haste Mastery Gem Slot(s)
Helm Dark Phoenix Helmet 378 1803 348 611 233 0 0 249 0 1 Meta 1 Yellow (30 Agi Bonus)
Helm Dark Phoenix Helmet (H) 391 2015 400 689 259 0 0 285 0 1 Meta 1 Yellow (30 Agi Bonus)
*Helm Hood of Rampant Disdain 378 1770 348 611 0 0 172 295 0 1 Meta 1 Red (30 Agi Bonus)
*Helm Hood of Rampant Disdain (H) 391 1984 400 689 0 0 202 333 0 1 Meta 1 Red (30 Agi Bonus)
Neck Choker of the Vanquished Lord 384 1021 240 360 0 0 0 162 156 None
Neck Choker of the Vanquished Lord (H) 397 1153 271 406 0 0 0 183 176 None
*Neck Necklace of Smoke Signals 378 918 227 341 144 156 0 0 0 None
*Neck Necklace of Smoke Signals (H) 391 1035 256 384 162 176 0 0 0 None
Shoulder Dark Phoenix Spaulders 378 1341 282 454 0 0 0 185 197 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Shoulder Dark Phoenix Spaulders (H) 391 1509 322 513 0 0 0 211 222 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Shoulder Shoulderpads of the Forgotten Gate 378 1274 282 454 210 153 0 0 0 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Shoulder Shoulderpads of the Forgotten Gate (H) 391 1435 322 513 240 173 0 0 0 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Cloak Dreadfire Drape 378 1114 212 341 138 0 0 0 95 2 Red (20 Agi Bonus)
Cloak Dreadfire Drape (H) 391 1239 241 384 158 0 0 0 113 2 Red (20 Agi Bonus)
Cloak Mantle of Doubt 365 871 201 301 134 0 0 0 134 None
Cloak Sleek Flamewrath Cloak 378 920 227 341 169 122 0 0 0 None
Cloak Sleek Flamewrath Cloak (H) 391 1037 256 384 190 138 0 0 0 None
Chest Dark Phoenix Tunic 378 1687 368 611 0 230 263 0 0 1 Red 1 Blue (20 Agi Bonus)
Chest Dark Phoenix Tunic (H) 391 1890 420 689 0 261 299 0 0 1 Red 1 Blue (20 Agi Bonus)
*Chest Breastplate of the Incendiary Soul 378 1841 368 611 0 0 0 231 267 2 Red (20 Agi Bonus)
*Chest Breastplate of the Incendiary Soul (H) 391 2063 420 689 0 0 0 264 303 2 Red (20 Agi Bonus)
Wrist Flamebinder Bracers 378 893 227 341 0 148 154 0 0 None
Wrist Flamebinder Bracers (H) 391 1005 256 384 0 166 173 0 0 None
Gloves Aviana's Grips 365 1145 248 402 0 0 0 203 117 1 Yellow (10 Agi Bonus)
Gloves Clutches of Evil 378 1343 282 454 0 0 0 198 186 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Gloves Dark Phoenix Gloves 378 1245 282 454 0 133 0 230 0 1 Red (10 Haste Bonus)
Gloves Dark Phoenix Gloves (H) 391 1403 322 513 0 153 0 260 0 1 Red (10 Haste Bonus)
Gloves Gloves of Dissolving Smoke 378 1288 282 454 0 172 0 0 208 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Gloves Gloves of Dissolving Smoke (H) 391 1450 322 513 0 197 0 0 235 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Waist Flamebinding Girdle 378 1308 282 454 167 0 0 211 0 1 Blue (10 Agi Bonus)
Waist Flamebinding Girdle (H) 391 1475 322 513 191 0 0 238 0 1 Blue (10 Agi Bonus)
Waist Riplimb's Lost Collar 378 1204 282 454 0 216 157 0 0 1 Blue (10 Agi Bonus)
Waist Riplimb's Lost Collar (H) 391 1359 322 513 0 244 180 0 0 1 Blue (10 Agi Bonus)
Legs Cinderweb Leggings 378 1814 368 611 0 0 0 212 284 1 Red 1 Yellow (20 Agi Bonus)
Legs Cinderweb Leggings (H) 391 2035 420 689 0 0 0 244 320 1 Red 1 Yellow (20 Agi Bonus)
Legs Dark Phoenix Legguards 378 1751 368 611 280 218 0 0 0 1 Red 1 Blue (20 Agi Bonus)
Legs Dark Phoenix Legguards (H) 391 1963 420 689 316 251 0 0 0 1 Red 1 Blue (20 Agi Bonus)
*Boots Sandals of Leaping Coals 378 1282 282 454 0 133 0 0 230 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
*Boots Sandals of Leaping Coals (H) 391 1443 322 513 0 153 0 0 260 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Boots Treads of the Craft 378 1343 282 454 0 0 0 197 187 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Ring Band of Ghoulish Glee 365 806 201 301 118 144 0 0 0 None
Ring Band of Glittering Lights 365 804 201 301 0 131 0 136 0 None
Ring Matoclaw's Band 365 808 201 301 121 142 0 0 0 None
Ring Splintered Brimstone Seal 378 922 227 341 0 140 0 0 158 None
Ring Splintered Brimstone Seal (H) 391 1039 256 384 0 158 0 0 178 None
Ring Viridian Signet of the Avengers 391 1135 236 384 0 0 0 181 134 1 Red (10 Agi Bonus)
Ring Widow's Kiss 378 954 227 341 0 0 0 167 126 None
Ring Widow's Kiss (H) 391 1076 256 384 0 0 0 188 142 None
Trinket Aella's Bottle 365 1054 340 0 0 189/s 0 0 0 None
Trinket Ancient Petrified Seed 378 1328 319/s 0 0 0 0 0 383 None
Trinket Ancient Petrified Seed (H) 391 1500 360/s 0 0 0 0 0 433 None
*Trinket Matrix Restabilizer 378 1625 406 0 0 0 0 0 438/s None
*Trinket Matrix Restabilizer (H) 391 1833 458 0 0 0 0 0 494/s None
Trinket Ricket's Magnetic Fireball 365 1054 340 0 0 189/s 0 0 0 None
Trinket The Hungerer 378 1455 383 0 0 0 0 383/s 0 None
Trinket The Hungerer (H) 391 1645 433 0 0 0 0 433/s 0 None

Slot Item iLvl EP DPS SPD Agi Sta Hit Crit Exp Haste Mastery Gem Slot(s)
1H (Dagger) Avool's Incendiary Shanker 378 709 551.8 1.8 175 262 125 102 0 0 0 None
1H (Dagger) Avool's Incendiary Shanker (H) 391 799 623.1 1.8 197 296 141 115 0 0 0 None
1H (Dagger) Brainsplinter 365 661 488.9 1.8 155 232 103 0 0 103 0 None
1H (Dagger) Direbrew's Bloodied Shanker 365 620 488.9 2.0 155 232 90 111 0 0 0 None
1H (Dagger) Feeding Frenzy 378 694 551.8 1.8 175 262 0 88 0 133 0 None
1H (Dagger) Feeding Frenzy (H) 391 782 622.9 1.8 197 296 0 100 0 150 0 None
OH (Dagger) Alysra's Razor 378 717 551.8 1.4 155 262 0 113 98 0 0 1 Yellow (10 Agi Bonus)
OH (Dagger) Alysra's Razor (H) 391 804 622.9 1.4 177 296 0 128 113 0 0 1
Yellow (10 Agi Bonus)             
OH (Dagger) Entrail Disgorger 378 709 551.8 1.4 175 262 0 97 0 0 128 None
OH (Dagger) Entrail Disgorger (H) 391 799 623.1 1.4 197 296 0 109 0 0 145 None
1H (Axe) Gatecrasher 378 764 551.8 2.6 175 262 0 120 111 0 0 None
1H (Axe) Gatecrasher (H) 391 860 622.9 2.6 197 296 0 135 125 0 0 None
1H (Mace) Tremendous Tankard O' Terror 365 648 488.8 2.6 153 214 0 99 0 97 0 None
1H (Sword) Pyrium Spellward 365 686 488.8 2.6 155 232 103 0 0 0 103 None
MH (Sword) The Horseman's Sinister Saber 365 592 488.8 2.6 103 290 103 0 103 0 0 None
Ranged (Bow) Arathar, the Eye of Flame 384 534 786.8 3.0 135 203 0 95 0 81 0 None
Ranged (Bow) Arathar, the Eye of Flame (H) 397 605 888.2 3.0 153 230 0 108 0 92 0 None
Ranged (Gun) Extreme-Impact Hole Puncher 365 470 659.1 2.8 74 170 0 58 0 0 73 1 Yellow (20 Agi Bonus)
Ranged (Thrown) Morningstar Shard 378 536 744.2 2.0 128 192 88 0 81 0 0 None
Ranged (Thrown) Morningstar Shard (H) 391 607 840.0 2.0 145 217 99 0 92 0 0 None
Ranged (XBow) Arbalest of Erupting Fury 378 512 744.2 3.0 128 192 0 91 0 0 75 None
Ranged (XBow) Arbalest of Erupting Fury (H) 391 580 840.0 3.0 145 217 0 103 0 0 85 None
Ranged (XBow) Lava Bolt Crossbow 378 512 744.2 3.0 128 192 0 91 0 0 75 None
Ranged (XBow) Lava Bolt Crossbow (H) 391 580 840.0 3.0 145 217 0 103 0 0 85 None

Last edited by Jodou : 06/16/11 at 9:52 AM. Reason: *Newly Updated Items

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Old 05/05/11, 11:50 AM   #12
Crevan
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
You could probably add Flickering Wristbands to the list. These look like the new random enchanted epics. Also, regarding the cloak and 2 red sockets - it seems to have a lower combat rating allocation compared to, say the intellect cloak of the same ilvl, which could compensate for 2 extra gems.

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Old 05/05/11, 11:52 AM   #13
THEFREAKISH
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Die Nachtwache (EU)
Any thoughts on the progression of the item levels? T11 has 359 normal mode -> 372 heroic mode -> 379 Sinestra. Right now, I deducted for T12: 363 normal mode -> 378 heroic mode -> 391 Ragnaros heroic (?). Or rather 378 normal mode -> 391 heroic mode, with the load of 363 ilvl items being quest rewards and such.

Are T11-heroic raider meant to skip T12-normal mode? They'll have a vast advantage over raids progressing purely on normal modes, meaning either 359er raids will have a very hard time progressing through T12-normal or 372er raids will breeze through T12-normal.

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Old 05/05/11, 11:56 AM   #14
Crevan
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Item level 363 is for crafted weapons only. The raid drops follow the standard gear tier formula: normal mode is half a tier higher than previous heroic mode content. So, 378 is normal mode, 391 is heroic.

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Old 05/05/11, 1:22 PM   #15
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by Inthedârk View Post
So it seems like it's better to wait a sec. when you trinket like Prestors is rdy.
And maybe Hurricane is better then Landslide.
Regarding Hurricane: 450 Haste, even for combat, it maybe 700 EP; 33% uptime on a 25% buff increases that to about 760, which is still quite a bit less than the 1000 avalanche gives.

As for waiting on trinkets: taking a second look at those buffs, I suspect that they'll update dynamically: that is, they're a buff that gives a 25% boost to (say) haste, not a buff that gives temporary haste equal to 25% of your current total. So my guess would be that even if your trinket procced after the buff, it would still get the increase, which would make waiting unnecessary.

That said: if that's not the case, it might be worth waiting a few seconds on... but not very many. Keep in mind that you're creating downtime where you have *no* buff, *and* delaying the damage bonus on your target, in exchange for a 33% chance of a larger buff. There is some amount of time that its worth waiting for that, but its not going to be more than a few seconds.

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Old 05/05/11, 1:22 PM   #16
Killme888
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Goblin Rogue
 
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Black Dragonflight
Originally Posted by Pathal View Post
To contrast, I gaged it at about ~349 EP in my own current gear. So as much as I would love to see this go live, I'm anticipating it to be reduced, possibly to 20%, if not a few percent below that.
So you want it nerfed to be comparable to our current set bonus? That's a pretty terrible rationalization. Just because our current set bonus is poor doesn't mean our future set bonus should be equally as bad. In fact, we haven't had one set bonus that's "amazing" since rupture critting and that was just a 5-8% increase, and that was all the back in Ulduar. While many other classes have enjoyed similar increases on their set bonuses, especially in ICC where almost every class got a straight up 5%~+ increase.



Originally Posted by Inthedârk View Post
So it seems like it's better to wait a sec. when you trinket like Prestors is rdy.
And maybe Hurricane is better then Landslide.
No point to wait as the bonus lasts 30 sec, so its uptime should be very close to 100%. As for hurricane, landslide is almost double the EP of hurricane, so even if you got lucky and got the haste proc everytime it would still be a ways behind landslide.

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Old 05/05/11, 1:29 PM   #17
 Andeh
The Titleless
 
Goblin Rogue
 
Balnazzar
This may sound stupid, but does the 4 piece bonus encourage balancing of the 3 stats (crit/haste/mastery) at all? In other words, is there any benefit to having equal amounts of the 3 stats (even if one is more powerful than the others), so that you don't end up with a chance of having a 1/3 or 2/3 chance to get a 25% buff to a small amount of comparatively weak rating? Or does this depend on just how much better the "primary" stat is compared to the other two?

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Old 05/05/11, 1:44 PM   #18
Miltrath
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Andeh View Post
This may sound stupid, but does the 4 piece bonus encourage balancing of the 3 stats (crit/haste/mastery) at all? In other words, is there any benefit to having equal amounts of the 3 stats (even if one is more powerful than the others), so that you don't end up with a chance of having a 1/3 or 2/3 chance to get a 25% buff to a small amount of comparatively weak rating? Or does this depend on just how much better the "primary" stat is compared to the other two?
Not particularly. Stacking your best stat makes the proc that much better 1/3 of the time. If you try to "smooth out" the levels of the three, you make your best proc worth less than it could be, while moderately increasing the runners-up.

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Old 05/05/11, 1:48 PM   #19
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by Killme888 View Post
So you want it nerfed to be comparable to our current set bonus? That's a pretty terrible rationalization. Just because our current set bonus is poor doesn't mean our future set bonus should be equally as bad. In fact, we haven't had one set bonus that's "amazing" since rupture critting and that was just a 5-8% increase, and that was all the back in Ulduar. While many other classes have enjoyed similar increases on their set bonuses, especially in ICC where almost every class got a straight up 5%~+ increase.
I'm not sure I'd describe our current set bonuses as "poor". I mean, 4/5 is worth getting, which is more than you could say for, for instance, T9. I don't think our current set bonuses are particularly good - they're not in a league with T8 rupture crits or T6 SnD speed - but they're by no means bad.

On the other hand, our T12 set bonuses are really, really good. Like, "not necessarily worth breaking 4pc normal to use heroic pieces" type good. We're talking "unless T13 set bonuses are equally good we'll wind up using T12 for quite a while in the next tier" type good. And, really, I'm not going to complain about getting powerful, valuable, bonuses... but its not unreasonable to note that these set bonuses *are* abnormally powerful, and there *are* some gearing oddities that result from that, so it wouldn't shock me if they do tone them down a bit.

...then again, it wouldn't shock me if they didn't. We'll just have to wait and see how it goes.


Originally Posted by Andeh View Post
This may sound stupid, but does the 4 piece bonus encourage balancing of the 3 stats (crit/haste/mastery) at all? In other words, is there any benefit to having equal amounts of the 3 stats (even if one is more powerful than the others), so that you don't end up with a chance of having a 1/3 or 2/3 chance to get a 25% buff to a small amount of comparatively weak rating? Or does this depend on just how much better the "primary" stat is compared to the other two?
I'd make your bonuses less RNG but less powerful on average, which I'd argue is generally not worth it. If you have two otherwise comparable sets of gear but one has a more even stat distribution, that's potentially worth doing, but I certainly wouldn't reforge mastery to crit or anything. After all, there's a reason why, as an assassination rogue, your mastery is significantly higher than your crit.

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Old 05/05/11, 2:15 PM   #20
Killme888
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Black Dragonflight
Maybe poor was a bad choice of word, but as you said the set bonus isn't good either. If you look at our recent set bonuses, I'd say we got the short end of the stick when you compare it to other classes' set. As for T12, while it is really good, so are all the other classes' bonus as well. So I don't see any reason why they would tone ours down, unless they toned everyones down across the board.

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Old 05/05/11, 2:47 PM   #21
Pathal
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So you want it nerfed to be comparable to our current set bonus?
Not quite. My thought process was that, as you also observed, that this is one of the strongest bonuses we've had. The consequence of being distinctly stronger is that it is more likely to be toned down, just as things that are distinctly weaker are more likely to be buffed.

Then there's the consideration of how spec's are balanced. I'm fairly sure that specs are balanced with their tier bonuses in mind, since it's typical for all specs to try and aim for 4p. So if Rogue DPS is and has been balanced with mediocre bonuses, one would expect the future bonuses to also be of similar level of potency.

It may be pessimistic, but it does have some rational behind it. There's many reasons why this could remain at 25% to a random stat for 30s every 30s, but there are still a number of reasons why it would be also be reduced in power. Both of them have reasoning behind them, but without being a part of the Dev team it's hard to say what their goal for Rogues is precisely.

All of this, of course, doesn't even consider the issue of how the EP value would scale past t12 content.

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Old 05/05/11, 3:06 PM   #22
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
I think that last point is possibly the most interesting. This set bonus is going to scale very, very well as we continue to go up in tier. Every gear upgrade we get will directly increase the average rating granted by the bonus, in addition to the fact that the stats themselves become more powerful with time (i.e. 1 point of rating will be worth more damage in T12 than it is in T11, and even more still in T13). Its probably not a large enough increase that we'll wind up using the set bonus indefinitely - the raw agi you gain by going up a tier is not to be trifled with - but it is worth keeping in mind that this set bonus will scale very, very, well.

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Old 05/05/11, 5:17 PM   #23
Inthedârk
Glass Joe
 
Orc Rogue
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Aldriana View Post
Regarding Hurricane: 450 Haste, even for combat, it maybe 700 EP; 33% uptime on a 25% buff increases that to about 760, which is still quite a bit less than the 1000 avalanche gives.

As for waiting on trinkets: taking a second look at those buffs, I suspect that they'll update dynamically: that is, they're a buff that gives a 25% boost to (say) haste, not a buff that gives temporary haste equal to 25% of your current total. So my guess would be that even if your trinket procced after the buff, it would still get the increase, which would make waiting unnecessary.

That said: if that's not the case, it might be worth waiting a few seconds on... but not very many. Keep in mind that you're creating downtime where you have *no* buff, *and* delaying the damage bonus on your target, in exchange for a 33% chance of a larger buff. There is some amount of time that its worth waiting for that, but its not going to be more than a few seconds.
Mh right, the buff scales with the stat valu you have in that sec. not you have when the buff comes.

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Old 05/05/11, 7:09 PM   #24
Antiarc
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Human Rogue
 
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Aldriana, for Shadowcraft, how would you recommend I approach implementing the 6pc? Just multiply those three ratings by 1.0825? I'd like to have this ready for practical testing ASAP.

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Old 05/05/11, 7:34 PM   #25
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
That'll do for short-term estimation. I'll try to find time to update the model more thoroughly sometime in the next week or so.

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