Cataclysm 4.2.x Raid Mechanics - Page 15

Armanewb · 10/26/11, 9:26 AM

Originally Posted by Seliathan

It actually depends on how your raid handles rag p4, since the boss usually faces towards the raid, rendering murderous intent pretty much useless. If you're pushing for one meteor and are having problems getting to the point where he's not casting anything anymore, you should give assassination a try, espacially since you are able to support in AoEing the seeds aswell.

As a counterpoint, combat's Blade Flurry allows the raid to be back on Rag much faster (especially if you run with 2+ rogues) and not be wasting any resources on scions. Additionally, combat allows for better survivability due to restless blades making sprint's CD line up with every world in flames cast. Phase 4 isn't much of a DPS race anymore anyway, it's much more control-focused since they nerfed Rag's HP.

Seliathan · 10/26/11, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Armanewb

As a counterpoint, combat's Blade Flurry allows the raid to be back on Rag much faster (especially if you run with 2+ rogues) and not be wasting any resources on scions. Additionally, combat allows for better survivability due to restless blades making sprint's CD line up with every world in flames cast. Phase 4 isn't much of a DPS race anymore anyway, it's much more control-focused since they nerfed Rag's HP.

Not to forget that you can hand out a strong stun via Vanish-CS to leave a single add alone in the second intermission to nuke the hell out of the scions before rag emerges again. I also enjoy sprints cooldown reset via restless blades in p4, making rogues one of the favorite classes to extinguish the dreadflames.

Using BF on the scions isn't that big a deal if you're pushing for one meteor though, because if the raid isn't able to kill them both before rag emerges again without major cd usage, you're most likely not getting him down to 10% in time anyway.

Armanewb · 10/26/11, 11:57 AM

Originally Posted by Seliathan

Not to forget that you can hand out a strong stun via Vanish-CS to leave a single add alone in the second intermission to nuke the hell out of the scions before rag emerges again. I also enjoy sprints cooldown reset via restless blades in p4, making rogues one of the favorite classes to extinguish the dreadflames.

Using BF on the scions isn't that big a deal if you're pushing for one meteor though, because if the raid isn't able to kill them both before rag emerges again without major cd usage, you're most likely not getting him down to 10% in time anyway.

As well as a Revealing Strike - Kidney Shot for added control. I'd counter that some raids (like mine) have one scion alive going into P3, and the rogues' sole job is to use BF to cleave off Ragnaros onto the scion, which can be tremendous damage when cooldowns, potion, bloodlust and shattering throws are all used simultaneously. We haven't really had a problem pushing one meteor either.

bretts2516 · 11/11/11, 4:26 PM

After crawling through the various posts, I saw that when fighting Domo in scorpion form there is a place just off the pincher that you can stand to avoid being parried but still be available to damage share on the flame scythe.

Is there a place to stand when fighting Rag that will avoid all the parries?

Crevan · 11/11/11, 7:47 PM

The "back" of Ragnaros spans 270 degrees, so more than 45 degrees either side of where the tank is standing is a parry-free zone.

ildefonsus · 11/12/11, 4:01 PM

I know there has been discussion on points in cuop de grace vs ruthlessness, my question is how is that 1 point that is being debated in comparison to the 10 agi one would get from not having to use assain's step ench due to putting a point in quickening?

Druss · 11/14/11, 9:01 AM

Originally Posted by ildefonsus

I know there has been discussion on points in cuop de grace vs ruthlessness, my question is how is that 1 point that is being debated in comparison to the 10 agi one would get from not having to use assain's step ench due to putting a point in quickening?

I think you will find that the discussion you are referring to has been as between Lethality and Coup de Gras rather than Ruthlessness and Coup de Gras. A talent point in any of these talents (Lethality, Coup de Gras and Ruthlessness) will be at least two to four times as good from a DPS perspective as a point in Quickening + 35 agi on boots instead.
Putting points in Quickening is a DPS loss - though if you elected to put two talents in here for 16% faster move speed and 20% more heals on a fight like Rag HC that might be understandable even though it will be a DPS loss.

Iroared · 11/24/11, 3:38 PM

I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the original post, but from my experience (not much as rogue), blade flurry damage on Rhyolith is reduced by armor stacks on the legs, so until the armor is low enough, it will do extremely little damage, so the line "makes him walk in a straight line" isn't quite true.

ildefonsus · 11/24/11, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by Druss

I think you will find that the discussion you are referring to has been as between Lethality and Coup de Gras rather than Ruthlessness and Coup de Gras. A talent point in any of these talents (Lethality, Coup de Gras and Ruthlessness) will be at least two to four times as good from a DPS perspective as a point in Quickening + 35 agi on boots instead.
Putting points in Quickening is a DPS loss - though if you elected to put two talents in here for 16% faster move speed and 20% more heals on a fight like Rag HC that might be understandable even though it will be a DPS loss.

yes, the discussion was about ruthlesnes vs coup de grace in regards to not having a 30% bleed debuff. i am in a ten man guild with no bleed debuff so my current spec is only one point in ruthlessness and 3 in CdG, but i think you have answered my question none the less. thank you