4.3 Changes Discussion - Page 18

nextormento · 11/29/11, 1:01 PM

I've pushed some changes to ShadowCraft in my branch which I think are ready to be shared. These numbers are for a reasonably close to BiS gear with second stage daggers (the legendary proc is not modeled for lack of data, obviously). Also, I used blue quality gems: as much as the epic ones don't bind, and the propper BiS will have them in every slot, we still don't know their availability and if it'll be feasible to be fully epic socketed; it'd be about 22 sockets or more (tradeskill dependant), but the EPs souldn't change much. Keep in mind these are very early and preliminary weights (work is still in progress and the changes need to be tested/approved/merged/uploaded/deployed). I haven't put together a subtlety gearset; if I do prior to the new changes going live I will update accordingly.

Stat EP

Stat	Assassination	Combat	Subtlety
Agility	2.75	2.83	nyi
Yellow Hit Rating	2.24	2.43	nyi
Spell Hit Rating	1.72	1.68	nyi
Mastery Rating	1.62	1.51	nyi
Haste Rating	1.40	1.87	nyi
Expertise Rating	1.40	2.13	nyi
Crit Rating	1.21	1.18	nyi
White Hit Rating	0.87	1.35	nyi
MH DPS	3.15	4.30	nyi
OH DPS	0.97	1.38	nyi

Tier set EP

	Assassination	Combat	Subtlety
t13 2pc	~711	~773	nyi
t13 4pc	~388	~441	nyi

Trinket list by EP. Note that reforge for Kiroptyric Sigil is not accounted for. Also, further testing needs to be done on the trinkets, this is the current most up to date understanding I have on the procs. The values for Starcatcher Compass with 100'' icd are somewhat off for combat but not enough for the ranking to change (I'd post them with a '~' but then you wouldn't be able to sort the table).

Piece	Assassination	Combat	Subtlety
(H) Wrath of Unchaining	2678.65	2754.22	nyi
(H) Vial of Shadows	2464.12	2421.90	nyi
Wrath of Unchaining	2452.01	2529.19	nyi
(H) Starcatcher Compass 100''icd	2300.11	2626,53	nyi
(H) Starcatcher Compass	2187.44	2482.04	nyi
Vial of Shadows	2182.9	2145.50	nyi
(LFR) Wrath of Unchaining	2169.99	2237.94	nyi
Starcatcher Compass 100''icd	2037.40	2335,53	nyi
(H) Matrix Restabilizer	1954.23	2230.87	nyi
Starcatcher Compass	1937.64	2205.46	nyi
(LFR) Vial of Shadows	1934.37	1901.28	nyi
(LFR) Starcatcher Compass 100''icd	1805.53	2069,48	nyi
(H) The Hungerer	1779.64	2011.98	nyi
Matrix Restabilizer	1731.52	1976.35	nyi
(LFR) Starcatcher Compass	1717.19	1954.34	nyi
Kiroptyric Sigil	1686,83	1927.54	nyi
The Hungerer	1574.63	1780.21	nyi
Arrow of Time	1562.72	1765.57	nyi

Edit: Updated. Most changes are on Vial of Shadows ranking.
Edit2: Included Starcatcher Compass with a 100'' icd in the ranking.
Edit3: Updated the Sigil and included Arrow of Time.

• Aldriana · 11/29/11, 4:08 PM

You appear to be modeling Starcatcher Compass as a 115 second ICD; do you have testing that is indicative of that? I haven't seen any actual testing of the proc rate, and in the absence of testing I'd be inclined to guess 100 rather than 115, which would make it a somewhat more compelling option. Still somewhat weaker than the current modeling of Vial of Shadows, but the heroic version would at least pass Sigil and normal-mode Vial.

Crevan · 11/29/11, 4:27 PM

A question to the people who already started the legendary questline on the US realms: are you required to kill Hagara after pickpocketing her to progress further? I was thinking of clearing the first 3 bosses in an alt raid, then getting my rogue into that raid for Hagara, pickpocketing her and wiping before I get saved. This way the other rogue in our guild would be able to get their ring in our main raid later that day. Would this work? Or are there any safeguards implemented to prevent this?

Hamzsolja · 11/29/11, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by Crevan

A question to the people who already started the legendary questline on the US realms: are you required to kill Hagara after pickpocketing her to progress further? I was thinking of clearing the first 3 bosses in an alt raid, then getting my rogue into that raid for Hagara, pickpocketing her and wiping before I get saved. This way the other rogue in our guild would be able to get their ring in our main raid later that day. Would this work? Or are there any safeguards implemented to prevent this?

Why would you pull the boss in the first place? Also after you pickpocket it puts the ring on a 12 hour cd so the other rogue would not be able to obtain the ring in the same raid. But seriously though why would you pull the boss? Pickpocketing does not require you to fight the boss or anything of the sort. Just loot the ring and then scoot out of there and turn it in.

Crevan · 11/29/11, 4:53 PM

I didn't see the fight itself yet, and I was under the impression that the encounter starts with a trash gauntlet, and Hagara attacks right after it. Good to know that that's not the case. Thanks for the info.

nextormento · 11/29/11, 5:14 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

You appear to be modeling Starcatcher Compass as a 115 second ICD; do you have testing that is indicative of that? I haven't seen any actual testing of the proc rate, and in the absence of testing I'd be inclined to guess 100 rather than 115, which would make it a somewhat more compelling option. Still somewhat weaker than the current modeling of Vial of Shadows, but the heroic version would at least pass Sigil and normal-mode Vial.

I haven't seen any either, nor have I seen the live version of the sigil (EU server here), so take all that with a spoonful of salt. I've updated the list a bit (I was using an older build with 1:1 AP scaling on every version of the Vial) and it ranks a little higher (for assassination, that is). I agree a ~20% uptime (or higher) would make both heroic and normal fit better but the 115'' made a lot of sense to me when I didn't know about the updated 60'' cd on the VP trinket. It's worth noting that Insignia of the Corrupted Mind (only the nomal version) points to the same proc as the Compass, and it's icd was confirmed as 115 as late as Nov the 14th by the simulationcraft crew. I will be updating both my fork and the listing as I gather more info.

Hollowneth · 11/29/11, 8:09 PM

Some rogues recently reported a bug (most likely) about the Hagara's ring which seems you can pickpocket her once then make a 'pull/wipe' causing its cd to be reset.

They've done it on 25 man and their 3 rogues got the ring.

Edit: Confirmed some minutes ago.

Leiata · 11/29/11, 8:20 PM

Any confirmation on being able to join a raid with the first 3 down, pick the ring, leave and join a fresh run (the next day, which I know we can't confirm yet) to get a 3 boss jump start on the week for gems? Mainly just whether you get saved to the first run from pick pocketing, if you can do it in under 1 minute that the "Yes/No" box is up, etc.

Pheron12 · 11/29/11, 9:15 PM

Went in on an alt run and pick pocketed/turned in; worked like a charm and no lockout.

http://i.imgur.com/mDmdL.jpg

Emelious · 11/30/11, 12:32 AM

To clear it up but currently (might get fixed) we had our first rogue in 25 man tonight pick pocket her we waited for her pockets to respawn (took about 5-7 minutes) and just pick pocketed her again we didnt need to reset her or any thing of the likes.

poptya · 11/30/11, 1:41 AM

Originally Posted by Emelious

To clear it up but currently (might get fixed) we had our first rogue in 25 man tonight pick pocket her we waited for her pockets to respawn (took about 5-7 minutes) and just pick pocketed her again we didnt need to reset her or any thing of the likes.

Can confirm this. Respawn time on the ring is very short, all rogues can get it within just a few minutes.

Shinryu · 11/30/11, 5:15 AM

Any word on how good Arrow of Time (Arrow of Time - Item - World of Warcraft) is? Taking the general guess it's worth about as much as reg The Hungerer?

nextormento · 11/30/11, 6:16 AM

Originally Posted by Shinryu

Any word on how good Arrow of Time (Arrow of Time - Item - World of Warcraft) is? Taking the general guess it's worth about as much as reg The Hungerer?

If it has a 60'' icd then they'd be very similar itemization-wise (it'd give an average 383 haste, just like The Hungerer). Its proc chance is lower though (20%) so it'd rank just below it (~12EP less).

roguebob · 11/30/11, 8:50 AM

There is a much faster way to get all the rogues the ring. Pull boss and vanish and it resets its pockets as soon as it respawns. Takes 30 seconds or so.

orderofmaken · 11/30/11, 9:24 AM

Seems the Kiroptyric Sigil is 1 minute 30s cooldown on live as I'm reading from the vendor, how much will that affect the EP compared to the other trinkets.